Absurd Treasure Levels [Archive] - Wizards Community

Absurd Treasure Levels [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DrWorm
07-19-07, 02:19 PM I am about to start ToEE tonight and I am reviewing some of the details of the adventure. There are some issues I have with stroy and motivation, but I can alter those easily. One thing I am seeing, however, are some absurd treasure levels in the printed adventure. Farmers with +1 weapons, and Ogre with like 8-10 thousand worth of treasure; this seems a bit crazy to me. The adventure stresses that your players should be pretty poor to start the adventure, but that won't last for long.

Ami I crazy? Are these normal treasure levels? Do the players need this to survive? I am running a party of three third level characters, but the adventure is made for 1st level. Please any input would be helpful.
Arcane Guyver
07-19-07, 02:45 PM Disclaimer - I've never ran this module, just played the PC game based on it. I wouldn't mind running an updated version, which I assume you have...

Farmers with +1 weapons, and Ogre with like 8-10 thousand worth of treasure
The former could be seen as family heirlooms. And the ogre...well, he must be pretty successful at what he does...

The adventure stresses that your players should be pretty poor to start the adventure, but that won't last for long....Are these normal treasure levels?
Not really, but if the players are meant to start off poorer than normal, it's probably there for a reason.

I am running a party of three third level characters, but the adventure is made for 1st level.
Ah, more variables, just what we need :P. Your best bet is to look at the PC wealth tables in the DMG, see what they'll get in the course of the adventure, and determine how much money they should start the game with. If they're pre-existing characters...and I can't believe I'm recommending this...fast forward through the journey and have them start at Hommlet, recently mugged of most their belongings. That way they start off poor, as the module describes. It's dreadful railroading, but sound necessary to run this module as it was intended. If the players give you crap, tell them it's for the good of the game, and things will even out soon.
JohnJohn
07-19-07, 03:32 PM From what I remember from running this a long time ago money wasn't a real problem because there aint much in the villages around there to spend money on. Oh yeah you can stay at the inn or buy a house in the village but they are small villages so there aint but just so much to buy.

The big city nearby is verbobonoc and thats like 75 miles away.. through some rather dangerous country. PC's should save their money and only go there when its really important like when they need/want to raise dead on someone or invest in maybe a magic item or two they think they need. If the latter they may want to really save as it could be a pain to go all the way up there just to find out they are a few thousand gps short (I use the price lists for magic items in various books as "suggested" retail price, sometimes the price is quite a bit more).

They will find a way to blow their money right before they find out they need it the most.

Oh and there were some rather big battles in that area in its history... I figured the peasants and what not did some battlefield looting afterwards... or at least thats how I explained the commoner with the Bec de corbin +1 flame tongue :)

In case you're interested there was a "Return to the temple of elemental evil" put out under 2nd ed rules. There is an extensive update to bring it up to 3.5 you can find here

http://zansforcans.net/
BW0222
07-19-07, 04:44 PM DrWorm,

If you look at the standard XP tables, there are about 12-16 combat encounters between levels. In a typical mixture of encounters, while not all encounters have treasure (animals, beasts, vermin, traps, etc. often don't), you typically get rewards, find unguarded treasure, etc. So, lets say in 10 encounters you find treasure.

Since you need to double your treasure about every level in order to follow the standard wealth guidelines and your group typically averages four PCs, each encounter would need roughly (PC wealth) * 4 / 10.

i.e. if your recommended wealth of your level is 5,000gp, each encounter should have 2,000gp. By the time you gain your next level, the party will have found approximately 20,000gp, your share being 5,000gp. Thus, by next level your gold totals should double.
JohnJohn
07-19-07, 05:43 PM Oops just remembered something... ToEE was under 1st ed rules. I think (stress think as its been a long while) you had to train to gain levels. That cost some serious money if I remember right. I think I vaguely remember having to pay some NPC wizard in Homlet to help train the PC's mages until they had to go farther afield to get training.

I dunno if your using any training rules but if wealth begins to be a problem you may need to either start cutting back or start making PC's pay more for other things to balance things out.
Dunsel
07-19-07, 05:48 PM You are the DM, if the treasure amount seems overboard, change it. Most canned adventures give out too much treasure IMO. It is more work but you can change the adventure. The author won't find out. ;)

I would suggest changing the +1 weapons to masterwork.

Drop the most of the gold to silver, the silver to copper, let them keep all the copper you can give them.:D

Thrown in a couple potions instead of permanent magic items. A wand with two charges is always good. One use magic items and items with few charges are worth a lot less but they get used up and they are gone.

Since the party is 3rd level, by 4th level, they should each have one (IMO) permanent magic item and the rest should be one use or charged items.

Keep track of which PC owns each item and when they are used so you can replace those items used or lost.

I hope this helps.
DrWorm
07-19-07, 05:51 PM I am definatly running this as a 3.5 conversion, so I will browse the DMG for wealth levels. Thanks.

Ah, more variables, just what we need :P. Your best bet is to look at the PC wealth tables in the DMG, see what they'll get in the course of the adventure, and determine how much money they should start the game with. If they're pre-existing characters...and I can't believe I'm recommending this...fast forward through the journey and have them start at Hommlet, recently mugged of most their belongings. That way they start off poor, as the module describes. It's dreadful railroading, but sound necessary to run this module as it was intended. If the players give you crap, tell them it's for the good of the game, and things will even out soon.

yea I am starting the PCs at half wealth and no magic weapons. I don't see it as railroading, just as a set up:

You are miserable! Rain has been coming down in sheets almost constantly since you left Verbobonc four days ago. Mud is caked on your boots and creates a vicious slick for even the most agile of hikers. The poor pathetic donkey you acquired in town hangs it’s head forlornly and brays almost incessantly now. Leaving has seemed like a good idea at the time, but now you crave the warm and lubricated environment of your favorite inn.

It was at the in, in fact, that you had first heard of the road you travel. An elven bard of moderate skill had finished his set and charmed the first of many rounds of drinks out of you. With each round he metered out more and more details of a glorious treasure guarded by untold danger. He told of an evil temple that generations ago had been the scourge of the region. It had nearly ruined the village it neighbored and was well on the way towards unleashing a great evil upon the land. Only a concerted effort by great heroes had quelled this doom, but the cost in lives was great. Slowly the region was able to rebuild, but the haunting horrors of the Temple was always in the minds of the people of Hommlet.

Now, according to the bard, tales were drifting north of strange people and bandits being noticed in increasing numbers around Hommlet. What were once safe country roads are now riddled with rogues and worse. Some say it is as simple as a new tribe of thieves that is laying claim to the area, but others whisper of new evils at the Temple. Nothing official has been posted by the Duke of Verbobonc, and the church of St. Cuthbert has denied the rise of a new evil, but brave and foolish adventurers had begun to travel to the area.

The next morning, after you noticed the amount of gold the bard had talked out of you, you decided to outfit yourself for the journey. Your last few jobs had been slim, and you’ve had to spend gold and silver repairing and replacing your belongings; however you were able to afford decent fare and a donkey and cart to haul it all.

The journey started out with mild spring weather, but only 6 hours after beginning a heavy thunder storm swept in and had been drenching you ever since. Rain, though, was the least of your worries. On the second day you were jumped by bandits. None of them were the match of anyone in your party, but their numbers made up for their lack of skill. During the melee your donkey, ever the stubborn beast, remained firmly planted in the middle of the road. While the party was distracted by fending off sword blows, other bandits crept up, chopped the reigns, and made off with the cart. It was found a few hundred feet in to the woods but all the goods were gone and the cart was demolished.

You thought to leave the stubborn donkey behind but the braying beast followed. Now it carries your packs and is has been fervently guarded from ambush.

As you begin to emerge out of the hill country and in to a small river valley, you begin to see signs of habitation. It is late, about 9:00pm, but thoughts of a warm in, cold beer, soft beds, and simply being dry has spurned you on towards your destination of Hommlet.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DrWorm 07-19-07, 02:19 PM	I am about to start ToEE tonight and I am reviewing some of the details of the adventure. There are some issues I have with stroy and motivation, but I can alter those easily. One thing I am seeing, however, are some absurd treasure levels in the printed adventure. Farmers with +1 weapons, and Ogre with like 8-10 thousand worth of treasure; this seems a bit crazy to me. The adventure stresses that your players should be pretty poor to start the adventure, but that won't last for long. Ami I crazy? Are these normal treasure levels? Do the players need this to survive? I am running a party of three third level characters, but the adventure is made for 1st level. Please any input would be helpful.
Arcane Guyver 07-19-07, 02:45 PM	Disclaimer - I've never ran this module, just played the PC game based on it. I wouldn't mind running an updated version, which I assume you have... Farmers with +1 weapons, and Ogre with like 8-10 thousand worth of treasure The former could be seen as family heirlooms. And the ogre...well, he must be pretty successful at what he does... The adventure stresses that your players should be pretty poor to start the adventure, but that won't last for long....Are these normal treasure levels? Not really, but if the players are meant to start off poorer than normal, it's probably there for a reason. I am running a party of three third level characters, but the adventure is made for 1st level. Ah, more variables, just what we need :P. Your best bet is to look at the PC wealth tables in the DMG, see what they'll get in the course of the adventure, and determine how much money they should start the game with. If they're pre-existing characters...and I can't believe I'm recommending this...fast forward through the journey and have them start at Hommlet, recently mugged of most their belongings. That way they start off poor, as the module describes. It's dreadful railroading, but sound necessary to run this module as it was intended. If the players give you crap, tell them it's for the good of the game, and things will even out soon.
JohnJohn 07-19-07, 03:32 PM	From what I remember from running this a long time ago money wasn't a real problem because there aint much in the villages around there to spend money on. Oh yeah you can stay at the inn or buy a house in the village but they are small villages so there aint but just so much to buy. The big city nearby is verbobonoc and thats like 75 miles away.. through some rather dangerous country. PC's should save their money and only go there when its really important like when they need/want to raise dead on someone or invest in maybe a magic item or two they think they need. If the latter they may want to really save as it could be a pain to go all the way up there just to find out they are a few thousand gps short (I use the price lists for magic items in various books as "suggested" retail price, sometimes the price is quite a bit more). They will find a way to blow their money right before they find out they need it the most. Oh and there were some rather big battles in that area in its history... I figured the peasants and what not did some battlefield looting afterwards... or at least thats how I explained the commoner with the Bec de corbin +1 flame tongue :) In case you're interested there was a "Return to the temple of elemental evil" put out under 2nd ed rules. There is an extensive update to bring it up to 3.5 you can find here http://zansforcans.net/
BW0222 07-19-07, 04:44 PM	DrWorm, If you look at the standard XP tables, there are about 12-16 combat encounters between levels. In a typical mixture of encounters, while not all encounters have treasure (animals, beasts, vermin, traps, etc. often don't), you typically get rewards, find unguarded treasure, etc. So, lets say in 10 encounters you find treasure. Since you need to double your treasure about every level in order to follow the standard wealth guidelines and your group typically averages four PCs, each encounter would need roughly (PC wealth) * 4 / 10. i.e. if your recommended wealth of your level is 5,000gp, each encounter should have 2,000gp. By the time you gain your next level, the party will have found approximately 20,000gp, your share being 5,000gp. Thus, by next level your gold totals should double.
JohnJohn 07-19-07, 05:43 PM	Oops just remembered something... ToEE was under 1st ed rules. I think (stress think as its been a long while) you had to train to gain levels. That cost some serious money if I remember right. I think I vaguely remember having to pay some NPC wizard in Homlet to help train the PC's mages until they had to go farther afield to get training. I dunno if your using any training rules but if wealth begins to be a problem you may need to either start cutting back or start making PC's pay more for other things to balance things out.
Dunsel 07-19-07, 05:48 PM	You are the DM, if the treasure amount seems overboard, change it. Most canned adventures give out too much treasure IMO. It is more work but you can change the adventure. The author won't find out. ;) I would suggest changing the +1 weapons to masterwork. Drop the most of the gold to silver, the silver to copper, let them keep all the copper you can give them.:D Thrown in a couple potions instead of permanent magic items. A wand with two charges is always good. One use magic items and items with few charges are worth a lot less but they get used up and they are gone. Since the party is 3rd level, by 4th level, they should each have one (IMO) permanent magic item and the rest should be one use or charged items. Keep track of which PC owns each item and when they are used so you can replace those items used or lost. I hope this helps.
DrWorm 07-19-07, 05:51 PM	I am definatly running this as a 3.5 conversion, so I will browse the DMG for wealth levels. Thanks. Ah, more variables, just what we need :P. Your best bet is to look at the PC wealth tables in the DMG, see what they'll get in the course of the adventure, and determine how much money they should start the game with. If they're pre-existing characters...and I can't believe I'm recommending this...fast forward through the journey and have them start at Hommlet, recently mugged of most their belongings. That way they start off poor, as the module describes. It's dreadful railroading, but sound necessary to run this module as it was intended. If the players give you crap, tell them it's for the good of the game, and things will even out soon. yea I am starting the PCs at half wealth and no magic weapons. I don't see it as railroading, just as a set up: You are miserable! Rain has been coming down in sheets almost constantly since you left Verbobonc four days ago. Mud is caked on your boots and creates a vicious slick for even the most agile of hikers. The poor pathetic donkey you acquired in town hangs it’s head forlornly and brays almost incessantly now. Leaving has seemed like a good idea at the time, but now you crave the warm and lubricated environment of your favorite inn. It was at the in, in fact, that you had first heard of the road you travel. An elven bard of moderate skill had finished his set and charmed the first of many rounds of drinks out of you. With each round he metered out more and more details of a glorious treasure guarded by untold danger. He told of an evil temple that generations ago had been the scourge of the region. It had nearly ruined the village it neighbored and was well on the way towards unleashing a great evil upon the land. Only a concerted effort by great heroes had quelled this doom, but the cost in lives was great. Slowly the region was able to rebuild, but the haunting horrors of the Temple was always in the minds of the people of Hommlet. Now, according to the bard, tales were drifting north of strange people and bandits being noticed in increasing numbers around Hommlet. What were once safe country roads are now riddled with rogues and worse. Some say it is as simple as a new tribe of thieves that is laying claim to the area, but others whisper of new evils at the Temple. Nothing official has been posted by the Duke of Verbobonc, and the church of St. Cuthbert has denied the rise of a new evil, but brave and foolish adventurers had begun to travel to the area. The next morning, after you noticed the amount of gold the bard had talked out of you, you decided to outfit yourself for the journey. Your last few jobs had been slim, and you’ve had to spend gold and silver repairing and replacing your belongings; however you were able to afford decent fare and a donkey and cart to haul it all. The journey started out with mild spring weather, but only 6 hours after beginning a heavy thunder storm swept in and had been drenching you ever since. Rain, though, was the least of your worries. On the second day you were jumped by bandits. None of them were the match of anyone in your party, but their numbers made up for their lack of skill. During the melee your donkey, ever the stubborn beast, remained firmly planted in the middle of the road. While the party was distracted by fending off sword blows, other bandits crept up, chopped the reigns, and made off with the cart. It was found a few hundred feet in to the woods but all the goods were gone and the cart was demolished. You thought to leave the stubborn donkey behind but the braying beast followed. Now it carries your packs and is has been fervently guarded from ambush. As you begin to emerge out of the hill country and in to a small river valley, you begin to see signs of habitation. It is late, about 9:00pm, but thoughts of a warm in, cold beer, soft beds, and simply being dry has spurned you on towards your destination of Hommlet.