Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pegasos989 04-22-07, 03:32 AM	So, I am running a campaign for a solo gestalt cleric/fighter (BWL's fighter fix meant to bring it on par with ToB classes). The problem is that he has a mad AC. 29 at 6th level (or was at 5th level and I doubt it has gone up by a lot. might be point or two). Just to make clear, it is done by the rules, no powergaming, slightly above normal WBL guidelines. It is just that player has self-crafted AC items and normally has gotten a round or two to buff up. I do not wish to punish the player in any way. Anyways, the problem is that most enemies have too low attack modifier compared to damage. If I put any monster who can consistently hit him, he will die in a hit or two. Let's take yesterday's fight for example. He knew that a dwarf would be under assassination attacks soon, so he locked the dwarf into kitchen, told to cast alarms (low level wizard dwarf) in a few rooms and use message when they were breached, thus the buffing time. First, through one way came 4 2nd level barbarians. They could only hit him on natural 20 so it was easy fight. Then, in another room there was 10th level monk! (NPC stats, very sliglthy modified example of DMG npcs) The monk's attacks were hasted +12/+12/+12/+12. He hit player twice in the whole fight! (third hit would have killed him) So, how can I come up with monsters who can hit him often but don't kill him in a hit or two.
KurenaiYami 04-22-07, 03:46 AM	So, I am running a campaign for a solo gestalt cleric/fighter (BWL's fighter fix meant to bring it on par with ToB classes). The problem is that he has a mad AC. 29 at 6th level (or was at 5th level and I doubt it has gone up by a lot. might be point or two). Just to make clear, it is done by the rules, no powergaming, slightly above normal WBL guidelines. It is just that player has self-crafted AC items and normally has gotten a round or two to buff up. I do not wish to punish the player in any way. Anyways, the problem is that most enemies have too low attack modifier compared to damage. If I put any monster who can consistently hit him, he will die in a hit or two. Let's take yesterday's fight for example. He knew that a dwarf would be under assassination attacks soon, so he locked the dwarf into kitchen, told to cast alarms (low level wizard dwarf) in a few rooms and use message when they were breached, thus the buffing time. First, through one way came 4 2nd level barbarians. They could only hit him on natural 20 so it was easy fight. Then, in another room there was 10th level monk! (NPC stats, very sliglthy modified example of DMG npcs) The monk's attacks were hasted +12/+12/+12/+12. He hit player twice in the whole fight! (third hit would have killed him) So, how can I come up with monsters who can hit him often but don't kill him in a hit or two. Get things that either hit his touch or flat-footed AC, whichever is lower. For touch, a horde of Warlocks. For flat-footed, a bunch of rogues with high initiative and Flick fo the Wrist.
T3hB4k4 04-22-07, 03:46 AM	Well my easiest suggestion would be to stop giving him time to buff himself. Secondly would be to start using tag team tactics, He's got spells, so do the enemies. Throw a few wizards with dispel scrolls into the mix and his buff spells can vanish very quickly, which can be a lot more nasty for him if this is followed by a couple melee fighters. This isn't "punishing him" so much as realizing that as a DM you don't have to cater every fight to his strengths. My only other suggestion is to remember an adage I've taken a liking to, "anything a player can do a DM can do better", send some stuff at him with higher AC's. This will draw out the fight and will make more of the higher rolls they need to hit him happen, and it doesn't required hiking their damage to a point where he dies in one hit.
Free1983 04-22-07, 03:59 AM	Consider sending in home brew monsters. You shouldn't do this all the time, because the player will think you are busting his nuts because he got himself a strong character :noway:. What you can do: Make his enemies a lot smaller than him. This results in a higher attack bonus for the critter, but also lowers the damage output. Is his grapple modifier also in the bazillions? Try to grapple him :88E: (I just forgot if it is necessary to hit a player to start grappling, but I thought you don't need to and in the worst case scenario, your player can bring in an attack of opportunity, but that shouldn't be a problem). Hope this helps, Cheers
Nall_The_Azure_Guardian 04-22-07, 04:02 AM	Speaking as a player with an ungodly AC: The trick is to hit him without making "hiting him" the object spells do this well Magic missile is cute because it won't miss and it won't kill him You can also simply create a difficult envoirment for him throw him in a "Time of Troubles" space that nullifies his buffs or you could try to get really cute and stick him in a magnetic field of some kind (since its a cleric with AC I'm going to assume full plate otherwise denying their dex would be easy enough) which means hitting him in his sleep is fun Flanking also could've given those barbarians a fighting chance, you could have thrown 3 barbarians and a cleric at him and blessed or something else equivalent to help the baddies hit his AC I've got a third level pali with an ac of 22 and a pension for taking a full defensive action and we just had a very nasty run in with a web spell the trick is to fight smart not hard, and do things that effect the party and not the player, so he's not being punished for how he built his char which your aware of and I'm very happy about
KurenaiYami 04-22-07, 04:03 AM	Is his grapple modifier also in the bazillions? Try to grapple him :88E: (I just forgot if it is necessary to hit a player to start grappling, but I thought you don't need to and in the worst case scenario, your player can bring in an attack of opportunity, but that shouldn't be a problem). Grapple requires a touch attack to initiate, and if they don't have a feat it will draw an AoO. If the AoO hits, the grapple is ruined. Just to refresh some memories.
Free1983 04-22-07, 04:05 AM	Thanks, Well, in the end, if you give your monster the improved grapple feat (I think - again :)), you can solve this problem pretty easily. Unless his touch AC is in the bazillions too. Cheers
KurenaiYami 04-22-07, 04:27 AM	Going off of what Nall said, Stone Dragons are around the CR to throw at this PC for a good fight, and that Breath Weapon that merits a Reflex save would likely work well for your purposes also. I personally had a 8th level Monk with AC 50+ (Can't recall the exact number...I want to say 54) and my DM couldn't handle it, and when I realized this, I made a different character. Your case seems a bit less extreme, though, so the above advice should all work well.
Pegasos989 04-22-07, 04:45 AM	Some really good suggestions here. Where is stone dragon from?
Magrus 04-22-07, 09:47 AM	Toss some evil kobold trappers of a higher level at him. Drive him running away from a big green dragon into a forest, and then make the dragon go once he's deep inside it. Then *wham* he's in the middle of a dark forest full of hordes of 4th-8th level kobold rogues who have trapped the place for days worth of travel. They might not be able to hit him often, but he'll have to light a torch or cast a light spell to see. Checking every 20 feet for a trap and risking damage from all of the pits and what not should be fun for a session when brushing off kobolds rushing you in the middle of it due to your beacon of "I'm here, shoot towards the light!". Perhaps a temple pyramid in the center of the forest as the location the dragon chases him to? I may be the only one that remembers the DnD video game for Sega Genesis, Warriors of the Eternal Sun....but, that stretch where you wade through the swamp with the lizardmen and then struggle through the temple was crazy fun. Traps, and shamans and warriors and all sorts of good stuff. Something like that might work. Failed Reflex save? You've just been caged, and there's 3 warriors and a caster coming to see to it they can sacrifice you. Hehe.
Xykon 04-23-07, 06:12 AM	Overcoming very high AC but average touch AC. 1. Tanglefoot bag (Entangled = -2 AC due to -4 DEX). Or a Net would also do the same. 2. Grease (get him to the floor for +4 to hit) 3. Any rays (i.e. scorching ray). Or maybe Alchemist fire / vial of acid. Use any combination. Just be careful with the Net + Alchemist fire.
Yokomohoyo 04-23-07, 07:17 AM	Remember that this is a solo game. If you want to hurt the character wile his AC is way up their just use reflex saves on him. For example have the bunch of low level melees that cant hit him for the world. This will make him feel good. And with those lackies have a mage with Fireball/Flamming Sphere and that sort. He will have to go for the mage so have that mage fly with levitate or fly spell if needed. Sure his reflex saves will be so/so and he'll make some saves but not all of them.
Pegasos989 04-23-07, 08:26 AM	Yeah, it seems that if a group of NPCs have a first level wizard with a scroll of dispel magic and then a casting of grease could very potentially lower the AC to hitable by itself. However, I am somewhat unsure of using grease, tanglefootbags and similar stuff that disables a lot of character's abilities. I have bad memories of solo campaign with diffrent player. The fighter/ranger he had lost his save against wither limbs (legs) and couldn't move... The rest of the fight was very anticlimatic... Then again, it might be diffrent now that player is gestalt and has spellcasting too, so even if he can't move, he will still have his spells...