accepting this situation? [Archive] - Wizards Community

accepting this situation? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
xTimx
02-07-07, 06:34 PM i basically told everyone, they can take any feat (except for the epic feats), if they meet the pre-req.

now this one guy that is playing a monk, has ALWAYS wanted an animal companion. but we already have someone with an animal companion in the group. and i'm not really wanting anymore.

so out of NOWHERE, he calls me up and says he's taking the dragon cohort feat. and he wants a dragon. and you can just imagine how giddy and smiley he was when he said this.

so now oh great. not only he wanted an animal companion...he wants a dragon as a pet instead. now i REALLY dont want that in the group cause we are a tough group as it is.

and i have been thinking just because he wants to take the feat and if he takes it....doesnt mean we'll come across a dragon and he can tame (if i even include one in an adventure). so i dont wanna feel as if he wasted dragon cohort as a feat.

any ideas or comments?!

BTW the dragons would have to be a bronze or a gold. (LG alignment)
fatal error
02-07-07, 07:35 PM Well, if the feat is balanced, it shouldn't be a problem, right? Is it basically Leadership for Dragons? Anyway, unless you made a big deal out of allowing all non-epic feats, just tell him you believe it will put his character (with cohort) too far over the power level of the rest of the party and make them feel far less useful. Do not let him take the feat and simply never allow him to find a cohort.
KendallDM
02-07-07, 07:42 PM Really, does it say what power level the dragon has to be? Wyrmling? Adult? Great Wyrm? If not, give him a dragon cohort that is similar to Leadership, that is CR is -2 to his character level. Chances are, that dragon won't make a huge difference. Also, there are other dragons in the books beside the standard chromatics. Ambush drake, wyvern, psuedodragon, etc. come to mind.

Or you can just recant and tell him you aren't allowing that feat. In my experience, it is never a good thing to allow ALL of something if you are not aware of what ALL of something may entail. WotC comes up with some crack monkey stuff sometimes...
Morwen
02-07-07, 08:00 PM The feat is basically Leadership for Dragons, except you must be 9th level and know Draconic to take it.

There's a table for the Dragons you can select in Draconomicon, page 139. They range from Wyrmling White to Juvenile Green (plus Pseudodragon and Wyvern), based on your Leadership score.
Krusk
02-07-07, 08:49 PM Just explain that you ment to say all feats except leadership and feats like it. Problem solved.

Or you can let him take the feat, but the dragon demands a deal first. He has to do something -a quest possibly- befor the dragon will help him. Or he has to bribe the dragon or something else dragon like befor the feat takes effect.
Vaelan
02-07-07, 08:51 PM and i have been thinking just because he wants to take the feat and if he takes it....doesnt mean we'll come across a dragon and he can tame (if i even include one in an adventure).
You said they can take any feat, which carries the expectation that you will treat the feat as the rules specify.

According to Leadership rules, you attract a cohort. You don't happen upon one in your adventures and have it join you and you certainly don't tame a highly-intelligent creature. It comes to you.

There is no weaseling out of having to go back on your previous decision. Either own up to making a mistake or let him have the dragon. A dragon shouldn't present any unique problems at level 9, so I would recommend letting him have it and making sure that he is properly prepared and thus does not significantly slow down the game.

Really, does it say what power level the dragon has to be?
Yes, it does. The dragon you can attract is based upon your level. He will not be able to gain a dragon cohort of any real power.
Necrosis
02-07-07, 10:30 PM would be a quest to get the corhort, if it is like leadersghip, all it allows is the chance to pick one up, not an instant shake and bake dragon. Or you could allow him to get a pseudo dragon without taking a feat :) or some other pet :).
Nor'Morgwae
02-08-07, 03:56 AM First off, talk to the player. Express your concerns and see how he reacts. Rule 1 of everything: Talk to them.

now this one guy that is playing a monk, has ALWAYS wanted an animal companion. but we already have someone with an animal companion in the group. and i'm not really wanting anymore.

What is so bad about him wanting an animal companion? It's not an unreasonable request. They are relatively weak and not much of a hassle. Frankly I don't even see the problem with the dragon. It's not like it's even big enough to ride, is it?. However, if you really don't want him to have a dragon you should at least meet him halfway and let him get a normal animal companion. Talk to him. You might want to suggest he take Wild Cohort instead, it basically allows anyone to take a watered down druid compaion. Sounds like what he wanted in the first place. Here's the link:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a

If the problem is that you really don't want him ot take an animal companion then you probably just need to get over it. Animals companions aren't a big hassle, especially if you make the player take on all of the responsabilty for controlling and keep track of them.
Derren S.
02-08-07, 04:02 AM That happens when you give your players "you can take everything" wild cards. If you do, then you have to be prepared for everything.
_SIN_
02-08-07, 04:15 AM I allow most things as long as it's RAW and the player can justify the how & why their character has it.
Dan Hemmens
02-08-07, 10:21 AM Just go with it. It's a cohort, not an Ancient Red Dragon who will Do His Every Whim. A wyrmling dragon shouldn't do any harm to anybody.
Dunsel
02-08-07, 12:12 PM What has this player done for dragons that would warrant a dragon cohort? Has he saved dragons in the past?

I also agree the dragon will ask for something special like half the treasure obtained by the PC. Dragons do love treasure, even LG ones.
Derren S.
02-08-07, 12:23 PM Of course when you so far have not required an in game explanation for feats from the other players (and it sounds like you didn't) then you can equally simply disallow that the player takes that feat. Its unfair if you want a in game explanation (with in game disadvantages) from one player and not from the others.
Millennium
02-08-07, 12:32 PM Have you read the Draconomicon, by any chance? It's got a section on dragons as mounts, familiars, cohorts, and such. Play this up right, and your monk friend will discover that it's not really all it's cracked up to be.

Go with a bronze wyrmling: it's smaller and easier to carry around. It also has the advantage of being extremely young, which is important: even wyrmling dragons are as smart as people, but a wyrmling still has the mindset and emotional maturity of the young child that, proportionally speaking, it is. Its natural desire for a hoard is going to have to come out of the monk's share of party loot, and keep in mind that this is supposed to be a gift, not a loan. Just because a baby dragon is LG doesn't mean it can't be bratty at times.

Rearing a child isn't exactly fun and games. This is true even when the child is an 80-pound reptilian incarnation of the forces of magic. The monk will certainly have the benefits of a draconic cohort, but there are responsibilities that go along with this, and it sounds like he needs a little education on how that goes.
Derren S.
02-08-07, 12:52 PM As dragons have an ancestral memory there is not much rearing to do. Face it you made a mistake by blindl allowing all feats. HNow your only big options are talking with the player and say no to the feat or accept it and give him a dragon cohort. Punishing him in game for taking the feat is definatly the wrong thing to do.
Dan Hemmens
02-08-07, 05:11 PM As dragons have an ancestral memory there is not much rearing to do. Face it you made a mistake by blindl allowing all feats. HNow your only big options are talking with the player and say no to the feat or accept it and give him a dragon cohort. Punishing him in game for taking the feat is definatly the wrong thing to do.

Absolutely.

Never, never, never, never, never use an in-game solution to an out-of-game problem.
AntiDjinn
02-08-07, 05:18 PM A cohort is not a pet, familliar, or slave. It is an allied NPC to be played by the DM. As such, it gives the DM and agent within the party. If he thinks he will have direct control over this cohort then he is mistaken; leaders lead, they don't mind-control.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
xTimx 02-07-07, 06:34 PM	i basically told everyone, they can take any feat (except for the epic feats), if they meet the pre-req. now this one guy that is playing a monk, has ALWAYS wanted an animal companion. but we already have someone with an animal companion in the group. and i'm not really wanting anymore. so out of NOWHERE, he calls me up and says he's taking the dragon cohort feat. and he wants a dragon. and you can just imagine how giddy and smiley he was when he said this. so now oh great. not only he wanted an animal companion...he wants a dragon as a pet instead. now i REALLY dont want that in the group cause we are a tough group as it is. and i have been thinking just because he wants to take the feat and if he takes it....doesnt mean we'll come across a dragon and he can tame (if i even include one in an adventure). so i dont wanna feel as if he wasted dragon cohort as a feat. any ideas or comments?! BTW the dragons would have to be a bronze or a gold. (LG alignment)
fatal error 02-07-07, 07:35 PM	Well, if the feat is balanced, it shouldn't be a problem, right? Is it basically Leadership for Dragons? Anyway, unless you made a big deal out of allowing all non-epic feats, just tell him you believe it will put his character (with cohort) too far over the power level of the rest of the party and make them feel far less useful. Do not let him take the feat and simply never allow him to find a cohort.
KendallDM 02-07-07, 07:42 PM	Really, does it say what power level the dragon has to be? Wyrmling? Adult? Great Wyrm? If not, give him a dragon cohort that is similar to Leadership, that is CR is -2 to his character level. Chances are, that dragon won't make a huge difference. Also, there are other dragons in the books beside the standard chromatics. Ambush drake, wyvern, psuedodragon, etc. come to mind. Or you can just recant and tell him you aren't allowing that feat. In my experience, it is never a good thing to allow ALL of something if you are not aware of what ALL of something may entail. WotC comes up with some crack monkey stuff sometimes...
Morwen 02-07-07, 08:00 PM	The feat is basically Leadership for Dragons, except you must be 9th level and know Draconic to take it. There's a table for the Dragons you can select in Draconomicon, page 139. They range from Wyrmling White to Juvenile Green (plus Pseudodragon and Wyvern), based on your Leadership score.
Krusk 02-07-07, 08:49 PM	Just explain that you ment to say all feats except leadership and feats like it. Problem solved. Or you can let him take the feat, but the dragon demands a deal first. He has to do something -a quest possibly- befor the dragon will help him. Or he has to bribe the dragon or something else dragon like befor the feat takes effect.
Vaelan 02-07-07, 08:51 PM	and i have been thinking just because he wants to take the feat and if he takes it....doesnt mean we'll come across a dragon and he can tame (if i even include one in an adventure). You said they can take any feat, which carries the expectation that you will treat the feat as the rules specify. According to Leadership rules, you attract a cohort. You don't happen upon one in your adventures and have it join you and you certainly don't tame a highly-intelligent creature. It comes to you. There is no weaseling out of having to go back on your previous decision. Either own up to making a mistake or let him have the dragon. A dragon shouldn't present any unique problems at level 9, so I would recommend letting him have it and making sure that he is properly prepared and thus does not significantly slow down the game. Really, does it say what power level the dragon has to be? Yes, it does. The dragon you can attract is based upon your level. He will not be able to gain a dragon cohort of any real power.
Necrosis 02-07-07, 10:30 PM	would be a quest to get the corhort, if it is like leadersghip, all it allows is the chance to pick one up, not an instant shake and bake dragon. Or you could allow him to get a pseudo dragon without taking a feat :) or some other pet :).
Nor'Morgwae 02-08-07, 03:56 AM	First off, talk to the player. Express your concerns and see how he reacts. Rule 1 of everything: Talk to them. now this one guy that is playing a monk, has ALWAYS wanted an animal companion. but we already have someone with an animal companion in the group. and i'm not really wanting anymore. What is so bad about him wanting an animal companion? It's not an unreasonable request. They are relatively weak and not much of a hassle. Frankly I don't even see the problem with the dragon. It's not like it's even big enough to ride, is it?. However, if you really don't want him to have a dragon you should at least meet him halfway and let him get a normal animal companion. Talk to him. You might want to suggest he take Wild Cohort instead, it basically allows anyone to take a watered down druid compaion. Sounds like what he wanted in the first place. Here's the link: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a If the problem is that you really don't want him ot take an animal companion then you probably just need to get over it. Animals companions aren't a big hassle, especially if you make the player take on all of the responsabilty for controlling and keep track of them.
Derren S. 02-08-07, 04:02 AM	That happens when you give your players "you can take everything" wild cards. If you do, then you have to be prepared for everything.
_SIN_ 02-08-07, 04:15 AM	I allow most things as long as it's RAW and the player can justify the how & why their character has it.
Dan Hemmens 02-08-07, 10:21 AM	Just go with it. It's a cohort, not an Ancient Red Dragon who will Do His Every Whim. A wyrmling dragon shouldn't do any harm to anybody.
Dunsel 02-08-07, 12:12 PM	What has this player done for dragons that would warrant a dragon cohort? Has he saved dragons in the past? I also agree the dragon will ask for something special like half the treasure obtained by the PC. Dragons do love treasure, even LG ones.
Derren S. 02-08-07, 12:23 PM	Of course when you so far have not required an in game explanation for feats from the other players (and it sounds like you didn't) then you can equally simply disallow that the player takes that feat. Its unfair if you want a in game explanation (with in game disadvantages) from one player and not from the others.
Millennium 02-08-07, 12:32 PM	Have you read the Draconomicon, by any chance? It's got a section on dragons as mounts, familiars, cohorts, and such. Play this up right, and your monk friend will discover that it's not really all it's cracked up to be. Go with a bronze wyrmling: it's smaller and easier to carry around. It also has the advantage of being extremely young, which is important: even wyrmling dragons are as smart as people, but a wyrmling still has the mindset and emotional maturity of the young child that, proportionally speaking, it is. Its natural desire for a hoard is going to have to come out of the monk's share of party loot, and keep in mind that this is supposed to be a gift, not a loan. Just because a baby dragon is LG doesn't mean it can't be bratty at times. Rearing a child isn't exactly fun and games. This is true even when the child is an 80-pound reptilian incarnation of the forces of magic. The monk will certainly have the benefits of a draconic cohort, but there are responsibilities that go along with this, and it sounds like he needs a little education on how that goes.
Derren S. 02-08-07, 12:52 PM	As dragons have an ancestral memory there is not much rearing to do. Face it you made a mistake by blindl allowing all feats. HNow your only big options are talking with the player and say no to the feat or accept it and give him a dragon cohort. Punishing him in game for taking the feat is definatly the wrong thing to do.
Dan Hemmens 02-08-07, 05:11 PM	As dragons have an ancestral memory there is not much rearing to do. Face it you made a mistake by blindl allowing all feats. HNow your only big options are talking with the player and say no to the feat or accept it and give him a dragon cohort. Punishing him in game for taking the feat is definatly the wrong thing to do. Absolutely. Never, never, never, never, never use an in-game solution to an out-of-game problem.
AntiDjinn 02-08-07, 05:18 PM	A cohort is not a pet, familliar, or slave. It is an allied NPC to be played by the DM. As such, it gives the DM and agent within the party. If he thinks he will have direct control over this cohort then he is mistaken; leaders lead, they don't mind-control.