Accomodating evil characters? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Accomodating evil characters? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Serielle
12-27-06, 03:59 PM I've been thinking of a game I ran some time ago where I lost a player because I couldn't properly accomodate his evil character. Given that I'm running a game soon in which I plan on allowing evil characters, I'm looking for tips on how to react to their actions.

Specifically, what happens when a character breaks into a shop in the night and robs the place? What's a realistic amount of valuables to be found in the average weapon/armor/luxury shops? How much security is realistic? I can't imagine the average villiage shop to have any sort of magical protection. What are the chances to be caught by a nightwatch/guard in the area?

And mostly, how do I let them rob shops without totally going over their wealth by level guidelines?

Any other general tips would be appreciated. I'm sure there's more intricacies I haven't thought of.
UncleChet
12-27-06, 04:06 PM As far as looting a shop goes, I'd suggest doing a percentage roll for one of the night watch to randomly wander by to see if his intrustion is spotted. As for loot. If he's trying to resell items stolen in the same town that's going to bring alot of problems his way.

What sort of character is he playing and is he playing evil for RP sake or evil because he wants to get away with doing anything he feels like. Evil has it's place, for sure, but evil for evil's sake could lead to problems for the character.
Roivas
12-27-06, 04:07 PM You can avoid having robberies overshadowing dungeons by remembering what you learned from dungeons. If it's easy to do it probably isn't worth doing. Robbing a random shoe shop could yield you about 50 gp if the shop was very effluent [affluent?]. Any place that would have more wealth would have guards, magical wards, and traps making robbing shops an adventure to itself.
If your player gets the bright idea that he can rob 1,000 shops that have 50 gold in them total to get 50,000 gold just remember that once such massive crime waves start up the guards will use magic or worse to hunt him down. Rewards for his capture will be posted. He would then have to defend his ill gotten gains from adventurers, giving you a moment of irony. And lastly, if he causes too much chaos through his theivery he'll become a target of the local theives guilds who won't take too kindly for him making their jobs doubly harder.
Anyone who tries to become the world's greatest cat burgler is an adventure generator, someone who robs the tavern they stay at should walk away with a few silvers.
Puca
12-27-06, 04:19 PM Robbing a shop is still an encounter, and the remuneration for doing so should match how difficult it is.

For a first-level rogue, a shop yielding 100 gp worth of loot should have a CR of about 1/3. A watchdog should cover that.

Defeat the watchdog, get goods worth about 100 gp and some xp to boot. Dog starts barking, the watch comes and you hang.

The problem with characters who like to play thief in the night shouldnt be how much extra stuff they get, but how much extra work it is for the DM to keep writing what are basically short solo adventures.
EyeontheMountain
12-27-06, 04:32 PM Or accomodating theivery?

I would think that a character who indulges in theivery wold quickly find the loot to be not worth the effort. The key is to not have the theivery adjust with level, but make it static with reality. So whether he is a 1st level or 10th level character, the local potter should have almost nothing in gold, and not a whole lot in goods, at elastthat the character can carry away.

Add in fencing (30 cents on the dollar at best) and he will not make much.

But from a DM standpoint I would do it off-camera so as not to take up party time. That kind of selfish playing really does not sit well with me. One reason I do not allow evil in my games.
PenderGrass
12-27-06, 04:59 PM Don't forget that shops too poor to afford proper security defenses might well take all their valuables home each night.

Generally speaking, the more "loot" in a shop - the more likely that powerful defenses are in place.

Local militia/police forces may cast Alarm, or Alarm-like spells, on all of the establishments that pay local taxes to be secure against thievery.

:dragon:
****
Vaalingrade Ashland
12-27-06, 09:14 PM The only people making more than say 10gp/week are alchemists and magic item brokers. I dare say that both people would know how to properly hurt theves badly if not outright make them die and be a cheap funeral.

The characters, being people that exist in the world should be well aware of this from the outset and there is really no excuse for when someone decides to rob something he knows is a death trap.
Orchomenos
12-28-06, 02:21 PM It's not much of an evil character as it is a thief character. If you're not ready for that, you can tell the player it doesn't work in your campaign, but that you will work to create a thieve guild campaign later; this way, you don't have to run solo mini-adventures while the other players are yawning, and the player will be happy when everyone will have to work together for some crime & larceny.

Waiting that, you could plan a serie of rolls to break into some shop to steal something. For example, you should need a DC 15 Spot check to see that the thief could enter by the upper window. Then a DC 12 Climb check to climb the wall, a DC 18 Balance check to walk up to the window, a DC 14 Escape Artist check to enter by said window. Add 1d3 alarm traps.
Each round the thief remains in the shop, there's a 10% chance we will be spotted by a night watch, or a 15% chance by a Thieve Guild officer. The night watch automatically sound the alarm, the Thieve Guild officer follow him out and attack him once the PC is alone.
After the job, have random or important NPCs make Spot or Sense Motive checks to see if they recognise him, especially if he attempts to sell the stolen stuff.

Well, use this frame, and vary the numbers and skill checks, use more or less NPC, etc.
kelvinaw273
12-28-06, 03:13 PM Don't forget the guard dog. It may not stop the character but it will make a LOT of noise and raise the neighbourhood.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Serielle 12-27-06, 03:59 PM	I've been thinking of a game I ran some time ago where I lost a player because I couldn't properly accomodate his evil character. Given that I'm running a game soon in which I plan on allowing evil characters, I'm looking for tips on how to react to their actions. Specifically, what happens when a character breaks into a shop in the night and robs the place? What's a realistic amount of valuables to be found in the average weapon/armor/luxury shops? How much security is realistic? I can't imagine the average villiage shop to have any sort of magical protection. What are the chances to be caught by a nightwatch/guard in the area? And mostly, how do I let them rob shops without totally going over their wealth by level guidelines? Any other general tips would be appreciated. I'm sure there's more intricacies I haven't thought of.
UncleChet 12-27-06, 04:06 PM	As far as looting a shop goes, I'd suggest doing a percentage roll for one of the night watch to randomly wander by to see if his intrustion is spotted. As for loot. If he's trying to resell items stolen in the same town that's going to bring alot of problems his way. What sort of character is he playing and is he playing evil for RP sake or evil because he wants to get away with doing anything he feels like. Evil has it's place, for sure, but evil for evil's sake could lead to problems for the character.
Roivas 12-27-06, 04:07 PM	You can avoid having robberies overshadowing dungeons by remembering what you learned from dungeons. If it's easy to do it probably isn't worth doing. Robbing a random shoe shop could yield you about 50 gp if the shop was very effluent [affluent?]. Any place that would have more wealth would have guards, magical wards, and traps making robbing shops an adventure to itself. If your player gets the bright idea that he can rob 1,000 shops that have 50 gold in them total to get 50,000 gold just remember that once such massive crime waves start up the guards will use magic or worse to hunt him down. Rewards for his capture will be posted. He would then have to defend his ill gotten gains from adventurers, giving you a moment of irony. And lastly, if he causes too much chaos through his theivery he'll become a target of the local theives guilds who won't take too kindly for him making their jobs doubly harder. Anyone who tries to become the world's greatest cat burgler is an adventure generator, someone who robs the tavern they stay at should walk away with a few silvers.
Puca 12-27-06, 04:19 PM	Robbing a shop is still an encounter, and the remuneration for doing so should match how difficult it is. For a first-level rogue, a shop yielding 100 gp worth of loot should have a CR of about 1/3. A watchdog should cover that. Defeat the watchdog, get goods worth about 100 gp and some xp to boot. Dog starts barking, the watch comes and you hang. The problem with characters who like to play thief in the night shouldnt be how much extra stuff they get, but how much extra work it is for the DM to keep writing what are basically short solo adventures.
EyeontheMountain 12-27-06, 04:32 PM	Or accomodating theivery? I would think that a character who indulges in theivery wold quickly find the loot to be not worth the effort. The key is to not have the theivery adjust with level, but make it static with reality. So whether he is a 1st level or 10th level character, the local potter should have almost nothing in gold, and not a whole lot in goods, at elastthat the character can carry away. Add in fencing (30 cents on the dollar at best) and he will not make much. But from a DM standpoint I would do it off-camera so as not to take up party time. That kind of selfish playing really does not sit well with me. One reason I do not allow evil in my games.
PenderGrass 12-27-06, 04:59 PM	Don't forget that shops too poor to afford proper security defenses might well take all their valuables home each night. Generally speaking, the more "loot" in a shop - the more likely that powerful defenses are in place. Local militia/police forces may cast Alarm, or Alarm-like spells, on all of the establishments that pay local taxes to be secure against thievery. :dragon: ****
Vaalingrade Ashland 12-27-06, 09:14 PM	The only people making more than say 10gp/week are alchemists and magic item brokers. I dare say that both people would know how to properly hurt theves badly if not outright make them die and be a cheap funeral. The characters, being people that exist in the world should be well aware of this from the outset and there is really no excuse for when someone decides to rob something he knows is a death trap.
Orchomenos 12-28-06, 02:21 PM	It's not much of an evil character as it is a thief character. If you're not ready for that, you can tell the player it doesn't work in your campaign, but that you will work to create a thieve guild campaign later; this way, you don't have to run solo mini-adventures while the other players are yawning, and the player will be happy when everyone will have to work together for some crime & larceny. Waiting that, you could plan a serie of rolls to break into some shop to steal something. For example, you should need a DC 15 Spot check to see that the thief could enter by the upper window. Then a DC 12 Climb check to climb the wall, a DC 18 Balance check to walk up to the window, a DC 14 Escape Artist check to enter by said window. Add 1d3 alarm traps. Each round the thief remains in the shop, there's a 10% chance we will be spotted by a night watch, or a 15% chance by a Thieve Guild officer. The night watch automatically sound the alarm, the Thieve Guild officer follow him out and attack him once the PC is alone. After the job, have random or important NPCs make Spot or Sense Motive checks to see if they recognise him, especially if he attempts to sell the stolen stuff. Well, use this frame, and vary the numbers and skill checks, use more or less NPC, etc.
kelvinaw273 12-28-06, 03:13 PM	Don't forget the guard dog. It may not stop the character but it will make a LOT of noise and raise the neighbourhood.