Achillis tendon [Archive] - Wizards Community

Achillis tendon [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
glorfon
03-19-08, 11:36 AM I made my BBEG super powerful full aware that there was no way for them to defeat him by normal means. He's a 20th level human socerer with a pimped out fort, masive army, and a home prew magic item which can control stone in any concievable way with no charging or other restrictions.

They are a 4th level Fliend Gnoll Barbarian, 4th level gnome sorcerer, 4th Level Half Elf cleric, and 4th level Half elf cleric, with a flying toad, 4 raptor eggs, a human slave, and an equally powerful home brew magic Item (Same thing but an orb rather than a staff, The orb was mad by the drow and the staff was made by dwarves).

I want to create some kind of flaw in BBEG's army which will alow them to bring down his whole empire. Like an exaust vent that leads to the reactor core.

Any Ideas?
TwiddleStootch
03-19-08, 12:02 PM Well, if you want help figuring how the party can bring down his Empire, we will need info in this Empire, not just on the Emperor.

What kind of empire is it? How many cities? What is the capital? What kind of army? What Allies or Enemies of the Empire are there for the PCs to deal with?
iserith
03-19-08, 12:05 PM Two words: Prostitution Scandal.
glorfon
03-19-08, 12:09 PM He doesn't really have an empire just a very big fort on top of a mountain and alot of influence. He also has a temple on the astral plain. The army is all human. Primarily 5-7 level fighters. He also has a couple dozen 7-12th level sorcers. Since he's trying to destroy all races but humans they would have alot of enemies. He isn't neccesarily associated with the human country but as word spreads about him alot of humans are joining not because they support him but because he promises they won't be killed. So the human country is the main allie he has though that isn't official.
PhantomTrain
03-19-08, 12:32 PM Well, I hope that you're ready for your PCs to be extremely frustrated, since it sounds like you started with the supposition that your BBEG should be invulnerable, and then started picking out specific weaknesses for him. That means that, by default, anything you don't think of won't work, and the likelihood that your players are going to think exactly as you do without some major hand-holding is minimal. Just be ready to deal with a) their frustration and b) ideas that they have that you never saw coming.

But in an effor to be helpful, one thing I might suggest is this. It sounds like he's threaded together his power with magic (who doesn't?), and has all these sorcs who work for him and this major artifact magic item that blah blah blah, right? Well, it might be interesting for the PCs to discover that every sorc that works for this BBEG is somehow bound to him magically, and you might let them discover some sort of bio-arcane virus that, strategically implemented, could begin to infect the BBEG's casters, moving from one to another through their shared bond. Even his mundane soldiers get swept up in it, since they are heavily exposed to your BBEG's magics.

Possible effects are a loss of power (boring, but effective), uncontrolled power, insanity, etc. As the most powerful of the sorcs, your BBEG isn't just going to keel over and chew his fingers off in a fit of virus-induced insanity, but it could climactically weaken his forces (and his personal power) such that he has trouble controlling his artifact, and his sorcs go to war with each other and themselves in an effort to devour more magic to satiate their mounting madness.

The idea is to destabilize your invulnerable BBEG to the point that the PCs can concievably take him in battle or at least rally allies against him and hope to win. Maybe have them, while on some sidequest or another, come across a sorc who is going insane due to this virus. After they put her down, they find her research notes on her own condition, outlining the effects and transmission methods.

You have to decide, did it come from a magic item? A spell gone wrong? Portal to an outer plane? Maybe some form of divine intervention placed in the hands of the PCs to turn an unbeatable foe into a beatable one by some higher power that wants them to succeed but is unwilling to act directly (you know, like the GM)?
wrecan
03-19-08, 01:05 PM Two words: Prostitution Scandal.

[spit take]!!! :clap: :rofl: :clap:
glorfon
03-19-08, 01:09 PM Two words: Prostitution Scandal.

Actually a posibillity. The team originally included a Male Half Elf Druid with Profession prostitution but he retired. That would be a really weird twist but my players might actually like it. Alot of stuff like that has been happening. I think I'd rather not though.

Also before some one points out my stupidity I'd like to acknowledge I said tendon when I meant heel.
SupaTalka
03-19-08, 01:21 PM He doesn't really have an empire just a very big fort on top of a mountain...

Can't the adventurers just use their artifact of stone shaping to dig a gigantic hole under the entire mountain surface which is held up by one last focal point, and then have the entire thing collapse in the night?

That would take down everything in the fortress and the fortress itself.

Since they could be literally, MILES under the ground with the artifact they have, there's no way they'd be detected short of DM fiat.
Johnathan_Vagabond
03-19-08, 03:16 PM If you go with the sorcerers holding the empire together, then a 7th level sorcerer is a strong boss for a 4th level party to take on. The PCs could take out the sorcerors one at a time, severing his control and communications for the empire. Then, when he's essentially blind the PCs can start a rebellion or sabatoge the building, or something like that.
Dunsel
03-19-08, 03:36 PM When you say "no way for them to defeat him by normal means." Do you mean at their current levels or EVER?

When you tell them this, are you boasting or are you letting them know via NPCs that this is the rumor?

I agree with previous posts stating your player may not appreciate this type of character introduction (and I add boasting as above). If they hear this info via an NPC such as an innkeeper or traveling bard, that is different. But if you say, you'll never beat this guy! Good luck.

Now to answer you question.
"Magic must defeat magic." - Uncle character from Jackie Chan Adventures

How did this person gain their power? One of the coolest ways to find a weakness in the BBEG is to dredge something up from his past. Something he forgot to cover. Perhaps he has a relative who knew him when he was young. Maybe the castle architect slipped through his fingers. Maybe he loved and lost. Create a back story for the BBEG and leave clues for the PCs to start at his birthplace. He obliterated it when he gained power but he didn't destroy everything. Perhaps, since he is stone-based, there is a water cleric who knows his dirty little secret.

My players has to release an npc imprisoned 25 years ago before they finally knew the truth about one of my bbegs

Be careful though, don't let the players know the whole truth right away. Sprinkle it don't slosh.
Sinfire Titan
03-19-08, 06:08 PM Two words: Prostitution Scandal.

To add on to this: Every man is vulnerable to a Nut Check.
Demetri_Knighthawk
03-19-08, 09:11 PM similar to the hole in the ground idea: geothermal vent, magma might be only half controlled by the staff/orb as it is a quasi-elemental. So the PC's pull up a hot spot with no plans to control the lava flow and just melt the tower down from underneith.
Radijs
03-19-08, 11:41 PM Perhaps a large part of his power comes from a ritual that the BBEG has to repeat every lunar cycle. This ritual has to be carried out at a special unholy site. During his time there he is of course vulnerable.
The site cannot be fortified that well because the magic of the place might be lost. The BBEG cannot risk losing his advantage.
He cannot bring an army. Once the secret of his ritual is out the place could be taken from him.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
glorfon 03-19-08, 11:36 AM	I made my BBEG super powerful full aware that there was no way for them to defeat him by normal means. He's a 20th level human socerer with a pimped out fort, masive army, and a home prew magic item which can control stone in any concievable way with no charging or other restrictions. They are a 4th level Fliend Gnoll Barbarian, 4th level gnome sorcerer, 4th Level Half Elf cleric, and 4th level Half elf cleric, with a flying toad, 4 raptor eggs, a human slave, and an equally powerful home brew magic Item (Same thing but an orb rather than a staff, The orb was mad by the drow and the staff was made by dwarves). I want to create some kind of flaw in BBEG's army which will alow them to bring down his whole empire. Like an exaust vent that leads to the reactor core. Any Ideas?
TwiddleStootch 03-19-08, 12:02 PM	Well, if you want help figuring how the party can bring down his Empire, we will need info in this Empire, not just on the Emperor. What kind of empire is it? How many cities? What is the capital? What kind of army? What Allies or Enemies of the Empire are there for the PCs to deal with?
iserith 03-19-08, 12:05 PM	Two words: Prostitution Scandal.
glorfon 03-19-08, 12:09 PM	He doesn't really have an empire just a very big fort on top of a mountain and alot of influence. He also has a temple on the astral plain. The army is all human. Primarily 5-7 level fighters. He also has a couple dozen 7-12th level sorcers. Since he's trying to destroy all races but humans they would have alot of enemies. He isn't neccesarily associated with the human country but as word spreads about him alot of humans are joining not because they support him but because he promises they won't be killed. So the human country is the main allie he has though that isn't official.
PhantomTrain 03-19-08, 12:32 PM	Well, I hope that you're ready for your PCs to be extremely frustrated, since it sounds like you started with the supposition that your BBEG should be invulnerable, and then started picking out specific weaknesses for him. That means that, by default, anything you don't think of won't work, and the likelihood that your players are going to think exactly as you do without some major hand-holding is minimal. Just be ready to deal with a) their frustration and b) ideas that they have that you never saw coming. But in an effor to be helpful, one thing I might suggest is this. It sounds like he's threaded together his power with magic (who doesn't?), and has all these sorcs who work for him and this major artifact magic item that blah blah blah, right? Well, it might be interesting for the PCs to discover that every sorc that works for this BBEG is somehow bound to him magically, and you might let them discover some sort of bio-arcane virus that, strategically implemented, could begin to infect the BBEG's casters, moving from one to another through their shared bond. Even his mundane soldiers get swept up in it, since they are heavily exposed to your BBEG's magics. Possible effects are a loss of power (boring, but effective), uncontrolled power, insanity, etc. As the most powerful of the sorcs, your BBEG isn't just going to keel over and chew his fingers off in a fit of virus-induced insanity, but it could climactically weaken his forces (and his personal power) such that he has trouble controlling his artifact, and his sorcs go to war with each other and themselves in an effort to devour more magic to satiate their mounting madness. The idea is to destabilize your invulnerable BBEG to the point that the PCs can concievably take him in battle or at least rally allies against him and hope to win. Maybe have them, while on some sidequest or another, come across a sorc who is going insane due to this virus. After they put her down, they find her research notes on her own condition, outlining the effects and transmission methods. You have to decide, did it come from a magic item? A spell gone wrong? Portal to an outer plane? Maybe some form of divine intervention placed in the hands of the PCs to turn an unbeatable foe into a beatable one by some higher power that wants them to succeed but is unwilling to act directly (you know, like the GM)?
wrecan 03-19-08, 01:05 PM	Two words: Prostitution Scandal. [spit take]!!! :clap: :rofl: :clap:
glorfon 03-19-08, 01:09 PM	Two words: Prostitution Scandal. Actually a posibillity. The team originally included a Male Half Elf Druid with Profession prostitution but he retired. That would be a really weird twist but my players might actually like it. Alot of stuff like that has been happening. I think I'd rather not though. Also before some one points out my stupidity I'd like to acknowledge I said tendon when I meant heel.
SupaTalka 03-19-08, 01:21 PM	He doesn't really have an empire just a very big fort on top of a mountain... Can't the adventurers just use their artifact of stone shaping to dig a gigantic hole under the entire mountain surface which is held up by one last focal point, and then have the entire thing collapse in the night? That would take down everything in the fortress and the fortress itself. Since they could be literally, MILES under the ground with the artifact they have, there's no way they'd be detected short of DM fiat.
Johnathan_Vagabond 03-19-08, 03:16 PM	If you go with the sorcerers holding the empire together, then a 7th level sorcerer is a strong boss for a 4th level party to take on. The PCs could take out the sorcerors one at a time, severing his control and communications for the empire. Then, when he's essentially blind the PCs can start a rebellion or sabatoge the building, or something like that.
Dunsel 03-19-08, 03:36 PM	When you say "no way for them to defeat him by normal means." Do you mean at their current levels or EVER? When you tell them this, are you boasting or are you letting them know via NPCs that this is the rumor? I agree with previous posts stating your player may not appreciate this type of character introduction (and I add boasting as above). If they hear this info via an NPC such as an innkeeper or traveling bard, that is different. But if you say, you'll never beat this guy! Good luck. Now to answer you question. "Magic must defeat magic." - Uncle character from Jackie Chan Adventures How did this person gain their power? One of the coolest ways to find a weakness in the BBEG is to dredge something up from his past. Something he forgot to cover. Perhaps he has a relative who knew him when he was young. Maybe the castle architect slipped through his fingers. Maybe he loved and lost. Create a back story for the BBEG and leave clues for the PCs to start at his birthplace. He obliterated it when he gained power but he didn't destroy everything. Perhaps, since he is stone-based, there is a water cleric who knows his dirty little secret. My players has to release an npc imprisoned 25 years ago before they finally knew the truth about one of my bbegs Be careful though, don't let the players know the whole truth right away. Sprinkle it don't slosh.
Sinfire Titan 03-19-08, 06:08 PM	Two words: Prostitution Scandal. To add on to this: Every man is vulnerable to a Nut Check.
Demetri_Knighthawk 03-19-08, 09:11 PM	similar to the hole in the ground idea: geothermal vent, magma might be only half controlled by the staff/orb as it is a quasi-elemental. So the PC's pull up a hot spot with no plans to control the lava flow and just melt the tower down from underneith.
Radijs 03-19-08, 11:41 PM	Perhaps a large part of his power comes from a ritual that the BBEG has to repeat every lunar cycle. This ritual has to be carried out at a special unholy site. During his time there he is of course vulnerable. The site cannot be fortified that well because the magic of the place might be lost. The BBEG cannot risk losing his advantage. He cannot bring an army. Once the secret of his ritual is out the place could be taken from him.