Ack... what book to buy? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ack... what book to buy? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sledgerosaur
01-04-07, 05:22 PM I have just enough money to buy a dnd book, and it is sorely needed.. our group has been playing with core, Complete warrior and complete adventurer for AGES, and (after asking what book would be of the greatest enhancement to the game)one of my players suggested I get a phb2.

I like the look of it (indeed it would enhance the players by quite a bit)
BUT... tome of battle looks great, and has been suggested by another player, in the end, all my players wanted me to buy a different book!

after taking down my choices ,to three:

Tome of battle (I plan to do a few small wars soon)
Player handbook 2 ( has been highly recommended)
Dungeon masters guide 2 ( as phb2)

usually, this would not be a problem. i would look for the book that would give the biggest benifit to our gaming experience.

unfortunatly, they would all give roughly the same boost to fun in my game!

so, (with your experiences as veteren gamers) would anyone be able to suggest a good book for my game?

sorry for wording/spelling , I cannot touch type as well as i used to and I had 3 mins to post this...
Gr8tyrant
01-04-07, 05:25 PM In order I would choose;

Tome of Battle - but it introduces a lot of new stuff so be ready for some changes
Player's Handbook 2
Dungeon Master's Guide 2 - (this was the one that I picked up, it did not have as much effect on my game as I would have hoped or the other two books had)

I have just gotten back into the game, so other people may know better, but we do use all three of those books at my table.

Also, after the ToB you may want to look into the complete books.
zvbxrpl
01-04-07, 05:28 PM I'd vote PHBII. The knight is what I always wanted in a martial character but never got. Although, speaking of martial characters, I haven't ever gotten around to giving ToB a look-see...
Gonf
01-04-07, 05:28 PM I was not too pleased with the DMG2 myself, most of the writing is, I'm not sure how to say it, lacking. It gives very little defined game information, and the DMing tips were mostly common sense.

I don't know much about the PHB2 so I can't say.

But Tome of Battle is excellent, I strongly recommend buying this one. It is a very different system from anything else and really attracted me to weapon using classes again. IT IS AWESOME.

Hope this helps.
Grand Theft Otto
01-04-07, 05:40 PM ToB, let any player currently playing a martial class re-design their characters using these rules. Its a really good product that keeps fighting types in line with casters.

It actually has little/nothing to do with mass combat (you'd indicated you'd wanted it for wars).

Otherwise I'd recommend PHB2. The DMG2 was a pretty average book IMO, with too much advice for novice dm's and a huge wasted section on a sample city.
Thinker89
01-04-07, 05:47 PM Players Handbook 2
I haven't personally looked at ToB but what I've heard of it it sounds very much like the powergamer would like it. DMG2, have heard its not very good.
Players Handbook 2 is probably one of my favorites books that i own.
Abulafia
01-04-07, 06:42 PM I don't know what kind of game you play, so it's hard to make recommendations. Each of those books has its virtues and vices. I like PHII best, but the best book for your particular game might be something else.

The DMII is good if you have never DM'd before, or need some general advice on how to handle problems with players, or need a completely statted out city. I gave it a thorough perusing, but didn't buy it.

Tome of Battle introduces an entirely new combat system. This is its main pro and con -- it's a cool new system, but it means having to learn it and keep track of it during combat. I bought it, but I haven't used it yet.

The PHII has a lot of new options for players: new classes, new feats, new variant classes, new spells, etc. It has a lot of fluffy filler -- character concepts, backstories, etc. -- but the crunchy stuff more than makes up for it. I bought it and use it all the time -- the Beguiler class might as well have been designed for me.
Cincinnati
01-04-07, 07:02 PM If you are looking to run "small wars" then Tome of Battle is not for that purpose. You are perhaps thinking of Heroes of Battle? which contains rules for running mass battle/war campaigns.
Sanmateo
01-04-07, 07:48 PM I'd go with PHB2, just on principle. Mostly because I'm of the "it's all about the players" school. I'd rather give them something they can hold and fight over that adds to the game than something they can't that adds to the game. That's pretty much the standard I just everything I bring into the game by, though.
Point of fact...we're set to chip in and buy a PHB2 this weekend.:D
Neutronium_Dragon
01-04-07, 07:56 PM If the PCs are melee-heavy, the Tome of Battle is certainly the best choice of the three. The revamped combat system therein breathes new life into the game.

If the PCs lean more towards support/spellcasters, or are a mix of all three, the Player's Handbook II would be a better choice (and pick up the Tome of Battle next time). It has material for all character types, and a lot of advice and new concepts that work for parties as a whole.
EyeontheMountain
01-04-07, 09:59 PM I would have to say PHBII all the way. It would be vfamiliar to your players, there are four new base classes (all of which I think are good additions to the standard PHB ones) and the alternative calss features will change your base classesenough that they will look totally different.

Book of nine swords is a nightmare, that will really change your game, but only for the melee builds. PBHII has stuff for every single class.

DMGII is not worth the money, I fear. Plus it will only really help the DM.
Danekus
01-04-07, 10:39 PM I vote for the ToB. I have it, I love it, I use it. If your group loves combat, it is a nessecity. Easily worth anybody's time and money.
Elendur
01-04-07, 10:42 PM Heroes of Battle is awesome for a military campaign.

The question is are you looking for something to add to the campaign, or to the players characters?
wonlee76
01-04-07, 10:45 PM For a "group" buy, I think you'll get more mileage out of PHB II.

Tome of Battle really benefits those who favor playing melee types and in a campaign, maybe 2 players will be taking advantage of it unless your whole group chooses to play the classes in Tome of Battle...

DMG II is bleh...
Bluehero
01-04-07, 11:11 PM PHB 2 and the ToB are both excellent choices, DMG 2, not so much
Penchant_Conjurer
01-05-07, 01:12 AM I can't believe that nobody mentioned the Complete Arcane. While several classes are reprints like Warmage from the miniatures handbook, the expanded rules are quickly becoming common use. THe warlock, the Wujen and Shugenja from OA, the presige classes! Of course the feats and expanded spells are priceless. Complete Arcane makes Conjuration the new Evocation with an array of orb spells. Since you have Complete Warrior and Complete Adventurer, I recommend this book instead of any newer books like Tome of Battle or PHBII.
A_Wizard_for_Breakfast
01-05-07, 01:29 AM PHB2 and ToB are two of the few books that I actually own. They are both very good and should be great additions to your game. That said, I'll parrot a few other posters.

Tome of Battle is great but it is very niche. There are things there for every role in the party (a fighter/mage class, some good stealth options, etc) but they are all fairly focused on integrating the Sublime Way (the new system introduced into the book) into the campaign world. You'll need to read almost the entire book and introduce a great deal of it if you want to use it. Consider it on about the same level as adding psionics to a campaign that doesn't currently have it: very rewarding, but it takes some amount of effort to fully understand and utilize it.

PHB2 is much more generalist. There is, literally, something there for everybody. The book as a whole is great, though, there were a few odds and ends I didn't particularly like. It'll be a great resource is you're looking for something to add some options for nearly every player without adding any massive changes to the gaming world or your current combat system.

Hope that helps, happy shopping.
Saberus
01-05-07, 01:40 AM Unearthed Arcana is a good one if you want to try different rules, i.e. recharge magic, magic points, and a simpler XP calculation method.
Undrhil
01-05-07, 03:00 AM Unearthed Arcana is a good one if you want to try different rules, i.e. recharge magic, magic points, and a simpler XP calculation method.

Simpler XP calculation method? What's complicated about the current system?
Undrhil
01-05-07, 03:05 AM Double post. Stupid lag .... :(
Sledgerosaur
01-05-07, 01:47 PM I will go fr player handbook 2 , followed by tome of battle if possible (found a Ł20 note on the floor this morning)
nlentz88
01-05-07, 05:37 PM I know it's an old book (and geared for 3.0, I believe), but I just purchase the Arms and Equipment Guide and love it! As a DM, I'm finding it chock full of useful info: vehicle stats, unusual weapon and armor materials, mercenary rules, new items both mundane and magical. I foresee this book as being a huge benefit to me as a DM and offering new options for the players.
drake_vampiel_d
01-05-07, 06:05 PM I'd say PHB II only because it is useful to the group as a whole not just the DM and honestly I don't care for "Tome of Battle" the 9 swords just seem ehhh to me I would just get weapons of legacy if I wanted the 9 swords.
Saberus
01-05-07, 07:15 PM Simpler XP calculation method? What's complicated about the current system?

UA has a standard XP award based on CR only, not player level vs CR. It requires more XP to level up, but the XP awards are much higher, it still takes an average of 13.3 encounters of appropriate CR to level up.
ccerose
01-05-07, 07:21 PM I have just enough money to buy a dnd book, and it is sorely needed..

after taking down my choices ,to three:

Tome of battle (I plan to do a few small wars soon)
Player handbook 2 ( has been highly recommended)
Dungeon masters guide 2 ( as phb2)

It's a toss-up with PHB2 and ToB. Personally, I'd go with PHB2 first. I really like the alternate starting packages for the core classes. However, for melee heavy players, ToB is absolutely awesome. Though not the most popular book out there, I really like DMG2, but it would be my 3rd choice out of the books you listed.
CharlieRock
01-05-07, 07:54 PM Get a Dragon (or Dungeon) subscription. :D
You get all sorts of neat things every month.:ton:

Waiting for my jan. issue ... :waits:
thefudgemaster
01-05-07, 07:56 PM I think you should buy the phb2 it helped my games alot

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sledgerosaur 01-04-07, 05:22 PM	I have just enough money to buy a dnd book, and it is sorely needed.. our group has been playing with core, Complete warrior and complete adventurer for AGES, and (after asking what book would be of the greatest enhancement to the game)one of my players suggested I get a phb2. I like the look of it (indeed it would enhance the players by quite a bit) BUT... tome of battle looks great, and has been suggested by another player, in the end, all my players wanted me to buy a different book! after taking down my choices ,to three: Tome of battle (I plan to do a few small wars soon) Player handbook 2 ( has been highly recommended) Dungeon masters guide 2 ( as phb2) usually, this would not be a problem. i would look for the book that would give the biggest benifit to our gaming experience. unfortunatly, they would all give roughly the same boost to fun in my game! so, (with your experiences as veteren gamers) would anyone be able to suggest a good book for my game? sorry for wording/spelling , I cannot touch type as well as i used to and I had 3 mins to post this...
Gr8tyrant 01-04-07, 05:25 PM	In order I would choose; Tome of Battle - but it introduces a lot of new stuff so be ready for some changes Player's Handbook 2 Dungeon Master's Guide 2 - (this was the one that I picked up, it did not have as much effect on my game as I would have hoped or the other two books had) I have just gotten back into the game, so other people may know better, but we do use all three of those books at my table. Also, after the ToB you may want to look into the complete books.
zvbxrpl 01-04-07, 05:28 PM	I'd vote PHBII. The knight is what I always wanted in a martial character but never got. Although, speaking of martial characters, I haven't ever gotten around to giving ToB a look-see...
Gonf 01-04-07, 05:28 PM	I was not too pleased with the DMG2 myself, most of the writing is, I'm not sure how to say it, lacking. It gives very little defined game information, and the DMing tips were mostly common sense. I don't know much about the PHB2 so I can't say. But Tome of Battle is excellent, I strongly recommend buying this one. It is a very different system from anything else and really attracted me to weapon using classes again. IT IS AWESOME. Hope this helps.
Grand Theft Otto 01-04-07, 05:40 PM	ToB, let any player currently playing a martial class re-design their characters using these rules. Its a really good product that keeps fighting types in line with casters. It actually has little/nothing to do with mass combat (you'd indicated you'd wanted it for wars). Otherwise I'd recommend PHB2. The DMG2 was a pretty average book IMO, with too much advice for novice dm's and a huge wasted section on a sample city.
Thinker89 01-04-07, 05:47 PM	Players Handbook 2 I haven't personally looked at ToB but what I've heard of it it sounds very much like the powergamer would like it. DMG2, have heard its not very good. Players Handbook 2 is probably one of my favorites books that i own.
Abulafia 01-04-07, 06:42 PM	I don't know what kind of game you play, so it's hard to make recommendations. Each of those books has its virtues and vices. I like PHII best, but the best book for your particular game might be something else. The DMII is good if you have never DM'd before, or need some general advice on how to handle problems with players, or need a completely statted out city. I gave it a thorough perusing, but didn't buy it. Tome of Battle introduces an entirely new combat system. This is its main pro and con -- it's a cool new system, but it means having to learn it and keep track of it during combat. I bought it, but I haven't used it yet. The PHII has a lot of new options for players: new classes, new feats, new variant classes, new spells, etc. It has a lot of fluffy filler -- character concepts, backstories, etc. -- but the crunchy stuff more than makes up for it. I bought it and use it all the time -- the Beguiler class might as well have been designed for me.
Cincinnati 01-04-07, 07:02 PM	If you are looking to run "small wars" then Tome of Battle is not for that purpose. You are perhaps thinking of Heroes of Battle? which contains rules for running mass battle/war campaigns.
Sanmateo 01-04-07, 07:48 PM	I'd go with PHB2, just on principle. Mostly because I'm of the "it's all about the players" school. I'd rather give them something they can hold and fight over that adds to the game than something they can't that adds to the game. That's pretty much the standard I just everything I bring into the game by, though. Point of fact...we're set to chip in and buy a PHB2 this weekend.:D
Neutronium_Dragon 01-04-07, 07:56 PM	If the PCs are melee-heavy, the Tome of Battle is certainly the best choice of the three. The revamped combat system therein breathes new life into the game. If the PCs lean more towards support/spellcasters, or are a mix of all three, the Player's Handbook II would be a better choice (and pick up the Tome of Battle next time). It has material for all character types, and a lot of advice and new concepts that work for parties as a whole.
EyeontheMountain 01-04-07, 09:59 PM	I would have to say PHBII all the way. It would be vfamiliar to your players, there are four new base classes (all of which I think are good additions to the standard PHB ones) and the alternative calss features will change your base classesenough that they will look totally different. Book of nine swords is a nightmare, that will really change your game, but only for the melee builds. PBHII has stuff for every single class. DMGII is not worth the money, I fear. Plus it will only really help the DM.
Danekus 01-04-07, 10:39 PM	I vote for the ToB. I have it, I love it, I use it. If your group loves combat, it is a nessecity. Easily worth anybody's time and money.
Elendur 01-04-07, 10:42 PM	Heroes of Battle is awesome for a military campaign. The question is are you looking for something to add to the campaign, or to the players characters?
wonlee76 01-04-07, 10:45 PM	For a "group" buy, I think you'll get more mileage out of PHB II. Tome of Battle really benefits those who favor playing melee types and in a campaign, maybe 2 players will be taking advantage of it unless your whole group chooses to play the classes in Tome of Battle... DMG II is bleh...
Bluehero 01-04-07, 11:11 PM	PHB 2 and the ToB are both excellent choices, DMG 2, not so much
Penchant_Conjurer 01-05-07, 01:12 AM	I can't believe that nobody mentioned the Complete Arcane. While several classes are reprints like Warmage from the miniatures handbook, the expanded rules are quickly becoming common use. THe warlock, the Wujen and Shugenja from OA, the presige classes! Of course the feats and expanded spells are priceless. Complete Arcane makes Conjuration the new Evocation with an array of orb spells. Since you have Complete Warrior and Complete Adventurer, I recommend this book instead of any newer books like Tome of Battle or PHBII.
A_Wizard_for_Breakfast 01-05-07, 01:29 AM	PHB2 and ToB are two of the few books that I actually own. They are both very good and should be great additions to your game. That said, I'll parrot a few other posters. Tome of Battle is great but it is very niche. There are things there for every role in the party (a fighter/mage class, some good stealth options, etc) but they are all fairly focused on integrating the Sublime Way (the new system introduced into the book) into the campaign world. You'll need to read almost the entire book and introduce a great deal of it if you want to use it. Consider it on about the same level as adding psionics to a campaign that doesn't currently have it: very rewarding, but it takes some amount of effort to fully understand and utilize it. PHB2 is much more generalist. There is, literally, something there for everybody. The book as a whole is great, though, there were a few odds and ends I didn't particularly like. It'll be a great resource is you're looking for something to add some options for nearly every player without adding any massive changes to the gaming world or your current combat system. Hope that helps, happy shopping.
Saberus 01-05-07, 01:40 AM	Unearthed Arcana is a good one if you want to try different rules, i.e. recharge magic, magic points, and a simpler XP calculation method.
Undrhil 01-05-07, 03:00 AM	Unearthed Arcana is a good one if you want to try different rules, i.e. recharge magic, magic points, and a simpler XP calculation method. Simpler XP calculation method? What's complicated about the current system?
Undrhil 01-05-07, 03:05 AM	Double post. Stupid lag .... :(
Sledgerosaur 01-05-07, 01:47 PM	I will go fr player handbook 2 , followed by tome of battle if possible (found a Ł20 note on the floor this morning)
nlentz88 01-05-07, 05:37 PM	I know it's an old book (and geared for 3.0, I believe), but I just purchase the Arms and Equipment Guide and love it! As a DM, I'm finding it chock full of useful info: vehicle stats, unusual weapon and armor materials, mercenary rules, new items both mundane and magical. I foresee this book as being a huge benefit to me as a DM and offering new options for the players.
drake_vampiel_d 01-05-07, 06:05 PM	I'd say PHB II only because it is useful to the group as a whole not just the DM and honestly I don't care for "Tome of Battle" the 9 swords just seem ehhh to me I would just get weapons of legacy if I wanted the 9 swords.
Saberus 01-05-07, 07:15 PM	Simpler XP calculation method? What's complicated about the current system? UA has a standard XP award based on CR only, not player level vs CR. It requires more XP to level up, but the XP awards are much higher, it still takes an average of 13.3 encounters of appropriate CR to level up.
ccerose 01-05-07, 07:21 PM	I have just enough money to buy a dnd book, and it is sorely needed.. after taking down my choices ,to three: Tome of battle (I plan to do a few small wars soon) Player handbook 2 ( has been highly recommended) Dungeon masters guide 2 ( as phb2) It's a toss-up with PHB2 and ToB. Personally, I'd go with PHB2 first. I really like the alternate starting packages for the core classes. However, for melee heavy players, ToB is absolutely awesome. Though not the most popular book out there, I really like DMG2, but it would be my 3rd choice out of the books you listed.
CharlieRock 01-05-07, 07:54 PM	Get a Dragon (or Dungeon) subscription. :D You get all sorts of neat things every month.:ton: Waiting for my jan. issue ... :waits:
thefudgemaster 01-05-07, 07:56 PM	I think you should buy the phb2 it helped my games alot