Action Points and Hidden Rolls... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Action Points and Hidden Rolls... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Karadur
04-18-06, 09:11 AM My group just finished the Red Hand of Doom and throughout the adventure I didn't feel the need to use hidden roles(for the PCs that is) except for a few occasions (sense motive checks against possible threats, listen spot checks).
Now we are going to run a homebrew adventure I've come up with using "Heroes of Horror" and lots of situations would require secret rolls, including some Will Saves. The only issue is since we use Eberron rules and the players have Action Points I feel Im kind of cheating them if they don't have the opportunity to use them. Do you think in settings where AP are used that secret rolls are 'fair?' Would you as a player feel deprived if you wern't able to decide to use an AP to hear a creature on the other side of the wall even if you weren't actively listening for it?

Thanks in advance for your responses.
Sereno
04-18-06, 09:37 AM Most players won't use AP for mundane checks like Listen or Spot ... they save them for when they REALLY need to hit or they REALLY need to make an Intimidate or a Diplomacy roll.

Saves are a trickier issue. As a player, I wouldn't be upset that I couldn't roll an AP for a Listen or a Spot for something I don't know is there. I would be upset if I couldn't add an AP to my save if a vampire is trying to Dominate me.

You could house rule that players can only use AP when they know that something is happening and see if they like it. If you're trying to combine horror and Eberron, they might be OK with it. If they are making hidden Will saves to resist an "influence" that haven't detected, then I think it could be fair to not allow the use AP.

But, I'd be up-front about it with them and I wouldn't spring it on them in the middle of the adventure.

[EDIT - typo notification not needed!]
Karadur
04-18-06, 09:54 AM Most players won't use AP for mundane checks like Listen or Spot ... they save them for when they REALLY need to hit or they REALLY need to make an Intimidate or a Diplomacy roll.

Saves are a trickier issue. As a player, I wouldn't be upset that I couldn't roll an AP for a Listen or a Spot for something I don't know is there. I would be upset if I couldn't add an AP to my save if a vampire is trying to Dominate me.

You could house rule that players can only use AP when they know that something is happening and see if they like it. If you're trying to combine horror and Eberron, they might be OK with it. If they are making hidden Will saves to resist an "influence" that haven't detected, then I think it could be fair to not allow the use AP.
Makes sense

But, I'd be up-front about it with them and I wouldn't spring it on them in the middle of the adventure.
Of course, always. I have to go over that with them, the rules for Taint(HoH), and other new stuff from Heroes of Horror.

BTW, your players might feel "deprIved" ... feeling "deprAved" is something completely different! :)
Typo, fixed. Thanks.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Karadur 04-18-06, 09:11 AM	My group just finished the Red Hand of Doom and throughout the adventure I didn't feel the need to use hidden roles(for the PCs that is) except for a few occasions (sense motive checks against possible threats, listen spot checks). Now we are going to run a homebrew adventure I've come up with using "Heroes of Horror" and lots of situations would require secret rolls, including some Will Saves. The only issue is since we use Eberron rules and the players have Action Points I feel Im kind of cheating them if they don't have the opportunity to use them. Do you think in settings where AP are used that secret rolls are 'fair?' Would you as a player feel deprived if you wern't able to decide to use an AP to hear a creature on the other side of the wall even if you weren't actively listening for it? Thanks in advance for your responses.
Sereno 04-18-06, 09:37 AM	Most players won't use AP for mundane checks like Listen or Spot ... they save them for when they REALLY need to hit or they REALLY need to make an Intimidate or a Diplomacy roll. Saves are a trickier issue. As a player, I wouldn't be upset that I couldn't roll an AP for a Listen or a Spot for something I don't know is there. I would be upset if I couldn't add an AP to my save if a vampire is trying to Dominate me. You could house rule that players can only use AP when they know that something is happening and see if they like it. If you're trying to combine horror and Eberron, they might be OK with it. If they are making hidden Will saves to resist an "influence" that haven't detected, then I think it could be fair to not allow the use AP. But, I'd be up-front about it with them and I wouldn't spring it on them in the middle of the adventure. [EDIT - typo notification not needed!]
Karadur 04-18-06, 09:54 AM	Most players won't use AP for mundane checks like Listen or Spot ... they save them for when they REALLY need to hit or they REALLY need to make an Intimidate or a Diplomacy roll. Saves are a trickier issue. As a player, I wouldn't be upset that I couldn't roll an AP for a Listen or a Spot for something I don't know is there. I would be upset if I couldn't add an AP to my save if a vampire is trying to Dominate me. You could house rule that players can only use AP when they know that something is happening and see if they like it. If you're trying to combine horror and Eberron, they might be OK with it. If they are making hidden Will saves to resist an "influence" that haven't detected, then I think it could be fair to not allow the use AP. Makes sense But, I'd be up-front about it with them and I wouldn't spring it on them in the middle of the adventure. Of course, always. I have to go over that with them, the rules for Taint(HoH), and other new stuff from Heroes of Horror. BTW, your players might feel "deprIved" ... feeling "deprAved" is something completely different! :) Typo, fixed. Thanks.