Action points [Archive] - Wizards Community

Action points [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Corpus
07-26-07, 10:01 PM I just read through the Action Points section in Unearthed Arcana, and they seem good idea with no real drawbacks besides a marginal increase in character power (which is fine, since I usually challenge them too much anyway). Has anyone ever had any experience with action points, and do they have a downside? Are there certain uses that I should consider disallowing, such as the ability to emulate a feat by expending one?

If you could offer any help at all, I'd appreciate it.
DarthMidget
07-26-07, 10:02 PM I've had nothing, but good results with them.
Salla
07-26-07, 10:23 PM I don't recommend the UA version that enhances or gives temporary feats, but past that ... the only problem is the players remember that they have 'em!
Lawlicron
07-26-07, 10:25 PM You could take alot of inspiration from Eberron here. It uses action points and has alot of action point related feats.
Mock26
07-26-07, 10:42 PM The negative side that I've experienced with action points is that they make the game less deadly, and the game isn't deadly enough as it is! But, that is just my opinion.
Salla
07-26-07, 10:45 PM The negative side that I've experienced with action points is that they make the game less deadly, and the game isn't deadly enough as it is! But, that is just my opinion.

To wit, I think the game is TOO lethal, in that it's nearly impossible to deal the PCs a defeat without killing them. :)
Thanuir
07-27-07, 01:19 PM Use some tangible tokens (poker chips are popular) to represent the AP. That will make players remember them.

In my homebrew game there was something similar to AP and they worked fine when people remembered them. I didn't use physical tokens. You definitely should.
ccerose
07-27-07, 01:34 PM My group has been using a form of action points for many many years. I am running an Eberron campaign and really like the way the work.

There's nothing quite like the reaction around the table when a player uses an action point that scores the final hit to take down the bad guy or to make that save vs. death roll.

Before Eberron, we were using a modified version from UA.
CBeyond
07-27-07, 01:36 PM I agree that action point tokens are a must. They are very useful as a reminder. Also, the act of physically handing the token to the DM prevents some accidental cheating that might occur in tracking the remaining points.

A DM in another game printed small square tokens on card stock, and I copied his idea for my own game.
Gottwick
07-27-07, 04:59 PM Aaaaagh!

Don't allow the use of Action Points to emulate a feat. People stop taking certain feats.

And don't allow the spell recall. Otherwise the wizard shows up at the big boss fight and hits him with 10 lightning bolts. Yes, that's possible ... TEN LIGHTNING BOLTS at 5th level.
Gargs454
07-27-07, 06:23 PM We don't play Eberron, but we basically use the AP system in Eberron. My players are allowed to use them for any d20 roll. Of course, the NPC's also get action points. :D

Just remember that anything you give to the PC's can be given to the NPC's as well.
Azezel
07-27-07, 07:13 PM I dislike action points.

I just plain don't like them - I can sort of see the point in, say, d20 Modern, though when I play that I try not to use them very ofen.

They just, well, make the game less fun.

Me, I roll the dice and take it on the chin.
zorgling25
07-27-07, 07:25 PM I dislike action points.

I just plain don't like them - I can sort of see the point in, say, d20 Modern, though when I play that I try not to use them very ofen.

They just, well, make the game less fun.

Me, I roll the dice and take it on the chin.

It really depends on how challenging your campaign is and how focused it is on combat.

If you play a very high-combat, high-difficulty campaign, they are useful, as they can help shift unreasonable encounters back into beatable range. They also give characters that normally don't have many combat options (pure barb: rage, charge, full attack, full attack, cleave, full attack, repeat...) something more to do.

On the reverse end, if you play a heavily roleplay-based game, my experience seems to have action points help expedite combat, instead of it having to drag out because of a few bad rolls. It also allows some of the more adventurous characters perform actions of great daring and seemingly impossible success with the help of them.

If your campaign fits somewhere in the middle (most do), then you need to decide. Obviously what works for your campaign might not work somewhere else and vice versa. Just remember, if it ain't broke, don't fix it!
HARLEYDUDE
07-27-07, 07:38 PM We use action points in our games. However we only use the option to add the d6 roll to any d20 rolled. We dont add to spells or aquire feats. It comes in nice for making that important save, or trying to hit that one guy with the major AC, or overcoming SR.
HD
Werebat
07-27-07, 09:15 PM I just read through the Action Points section in Unearthed Arcana, and they seem good idea with no real drawbacks besides a marginal increase in character power (which is fine, since I usually challenge them too much anyway). Has anyone ever had any experience with action points, and do they have a downside? Are there certain uses that I should consider disallowing, such as the ability to emulate a feat by expending one?

If you could offer any help at all, I'd appreciate it.

Watch out for Mass Conviction in conjunction with Action Points. Clever players will combo the two to provide an effective +8 or greater bonus to saves that really need to be made (stackable with those vests of resistance everyone wears).

- Ron ^*^
zorgling25
07-27-07, 10:31 PM Watch out for Mass Conviction in conjunction with Action Points. Clever players will combo the two to provide an effective +8 or greater bonus to saves that really need to be made (stackable with those vests of resistance everyone wears).

- Ron ^*^

The easy way to avoid that is to ban MHB. Not a huge loss since a lot of MHB material like the Favored Soul can be found elsewhere.
Arrowstorm
07-27-07, 11:07 PM I thought I would like action points a lot but found out just the opposite. They helped the players way too much and effectively lowered thereal CR of an encounter. The idea here of just using them for d20 rolls is about the only way to keep them playable. Part of the problem is that they are very hard to account for when planning an adventure. It can take bad luck out of the game and make the players feel a little too comfortable. I won't kill a character for bad luck anyway so I found action points annoying. And BTW, when I played with them I was the player.

Arrowstorm
zorgling25
07-27-07, 11:18 PM I thought I would like action points a lot but found out just the opposite. They helped the players way too much and effectively lowered thereal CR of an encounter. The idea here of just using them for d20 rolls is about the only way to keep them playable. Part of the problem is that they are very hard to account for when planning an adventure. It can take bad luck out of the game and make the players feel a little too comfortable. I won't kill a character for bad luck anyway so I found action points annoying. And BTW, when I played with them I was the player.

Arrowstorm

See, the thing is, Action Points don't help the game if it was already a good difficulty game. It helps when your DM has a problem writing adventures that fit the characters' power level, say, if he always writes adventures that involve many player deaths. Action Points help shift balance the other way.
Lawlicron
07-27-07, 11:44 PM We don't play Eberron, but we basically use the AP system in Eberron. My players are allowed to use them for any d20 roll. Of course, the NPC's also get action points. :D

Just remember that anything you give to the PC's can be given to the NPC's as well.

Actually in Eberron and D20Modern NPCs are denied action points.
Kradlo
07-28-07, 02:04 AM I've used action points in my D&D game (UA version), and before that in Iron Heroes. In all cases, it's been a welcome addition. I find that the most common uses are boosting a d20 roll, and stabilizing while dying.

One of the more original uses of emulating a feat was when a character was reduced to 0 hit points - disabled. Rather than try to hobble away from the skeletons, he emulated the feat Toughness, putting him at 3 hp, and no longer disabled. He took off like a bat out of hell, and got away.

I also use reserve points, which have allowed the PCs to face more encounters in a day. Even so, I've scared the heck out of them, so I think I'm doing my job right.

:devil:
trapspringer
07-28-07, 02:14 AM I use them in my games. They're good for high-action stuff and encourage risk-taking.

They are not good for gritty games or horror.
Mock26
07-28-07, 01:17 PM One suggestion for people who find that action points make things too easy for the players is that you can seriously reduce the number of action points that a character gets. So, instead of giving out 5 at first level and then 5 + 1/2 for every level of the character when they go up a level, give them 2-4 at first level, and then give them 1 per level. This will still allow the players to use the action points to save their skin from time to time, but it will still leave that element of danger that a lot of DM's and players like.
MSW
07-30-07, 01:57 PM I've played with Action Points both in Eberron games and in regular D&D.
Nothing but good things to say about them. Of course I'm they guy
that burns through them all as soon as I get them, except for that 1
reserve to auto stabalize.

What I have seen used often to "balance the universe" with regards to
Action points is for the DM to keep track of when the Players use them, and
any time a PC uses an Action point, that adds 1 Action point to the NPCs
Action point pool for the session. That way the NPCs can do some pretty
amazing stuff too, or land that hit or make that clutch save at the most
needed moment.

I can say without any doubt that I prefer to play with Action Points then
without them. (I am a notoriously bad dice roller anyway).
bobothechimp
07-30-07, 02:08 PM I like action points, because they give characters more control over their actions. Sometimes, you just want to make that epic move that you probably wouldn't make normally.
Chris Crouch
07-31-07, 03:08 AM I like them.

One facet that I particularly like is that allows me to scale up encounters aggressively (I'm running Red Hand of Doom with 6 PCs) without worrying too much about a TPK, because the players have these reserves of action points to help them when things are really dire.

In my campaign the characters scored a pile of pirate loot early on, so I bought some replica pirate doubloons to use as action point tokens.

Chris
Thanuir
07-31-07, 04:29 AM What I have seen used often to "balance the universe" with regards to Action points is for the DM to keep track of when the Players use them, and any time a PC uses an Action point, that adds 1 Action point to the NPCs Action point pool for the session. That way the NPCs can do some pretty amazing stuff too, or land that hit or make that clutch save at the most
needed moment.Now that's a cool idea.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Corpus 07-26-07, 10:01 PM	I just read through the Action Points section in Unearthed Arcana, and they seem good idea with no real drawbacks besides a marginal increase in character power (which is fine, since I usually challenge them too much anyway). Has anyone ever had any experience with action points, and do they have a downside? Are there certain uses that I should consider disallowing, such as the ability to emulate a feat by expending one? If you could offer any help at all, I'd appreciate it.
DarthMidget 07-26-07, 10:02 PM	I've had nothing, but good results with them.
Salla 07-26-07, 10:23 PM	I don't recommend the UA version that enhances or gives temporary feats, but past that ... the only problem is the players remember that they have 'em!
Lawlicron 07-26-07, 10:25 PM	You could take alot of inspiration from Eberron here. It uses action points and has alot of action point related feats.
Mock26 07-26-07, 10:42 PM	The negative side that I've experienced with action points is that they make the game less deadly, and the game isn't deadly enough as it is! But, that is just my opinion.
Salla 07-26-07, 10:45 PM	The negative side that I've experienced with action points is that they make the game less deadly, and the game isn't deadly enough as it is! But, that is just my opinion. To wit, I think the game is TOO lethal, in that it's nearly impossible to deal the PCs a defeat without killing them. :)
Thanuir 07-27-07, 01:19 PM	Use some tangible tokens (poker chips are popular) to represent the AP. That will make players remember them. In my homebrew game there was something similar to AP and they worked fine when people remembered them. I didn't use physical tokens. You definitely should.
ccerose 07-27-07, 01:34 PM	My group has been using a form of action points for many many years. I am running an Eberron campaign and really like the way the work. There's nothing quite like the reaction around the table when a player uses an action point that scores the final hit to take down the bad guy or to make that save vs. death roll. Before Eberron, we were using a modified version from UA.
CBeyond 07-27-07, 01:36 PM	I agree that action point tokens are a must. They are very useful as a reminder. Also, the act of physically handing the token to the DM prevents some accidental cheating that might occur in tracking the remaining points. A DM in another game printed small square tokens on card stock, and I copied his idea for my own game.
Gottwick 07-27-07, 04:59 PM	Aaaaagh! Don't allow the use of Action Points to emulate a feat. People stop taking certain feats. And don't allow the spell recall. Otherwise the wizard shows up at the big boss fight and hits him with 10 lightning bolts. Yes, that's possible ... TEN LIGHTNING BOLTS at 5th level.
Gargs454 07-27-07, 06:23 PM	We don't play Eberron, but we basically use the AP system in Eberron. My players are allowed to use them for any d20 roll. Of course, the NPC's also get action points. :D Just remember that anything you give to the PC's can be given to the NPC's as well.
Azezel 07-27-07, 07:13 PM	I dislike action points. I just plain don't like them - I can sort of see the point in, say, d20 Modern, though when I play that I try not to use them very ofen. They just, well, make the game less fun. Me, I roll the dice and take it on the chin.
zorgling25 07-27-07, 07:25 PM	I dislike action points. I just plain don't like them - I can sort of see the point in, say, d20 Modern, though when I play that I try not to use them very ofen. They just, well, make the game less fun. Me, I roll the dice and take it on the chin. It really depends on how challenging your campaign is and how focused it is on combat. If you play a very high-combat, high-difficulty campaign, they are useful, as they can help shift unreasonable encounters back into beatable range. They also give characters that normally don't have many combat options (pure barb: rage, charge, full attack, full attack, cleave, full attack, repeat...) something more to do. On the reverse end, if you play a heavily roleplay-based game, my experience seems to have action points help expedite combat, instead of it having to drag out because of a few bad rolls. It also allows some of the more adventurous characters perform actions of great daring and seemingly impossible success with the help of them. If your campaign fits somewhere in the middle (most do), then you need to decide. Obviously what works for your campaign might not work somewhere else and vice versa. Just remember, if it ain't broke, don't fix it!
HARLEYDUDE 07-27-07, 07:38 PM	We use action points in our games. However we only use the option to add the d6 roll to any d20 rolled. We dont add to spells or aquire feats. It comes in nice for making that important save, or trying to hit that one guy with the major AC, or overcoming SR. HD
Werebat 07-27-07, 09:15 PM	I just read through the Action Points section in Unearthed Arcana, and they seem good idea with no real drawbacks besides a marginal increase in character power (which is fine, since I usually challenge them too much anyway). Has anyone ever had any experience with action points, and do they have a downside? Are there certain uses that I should consider disallowing, such as the ability to emulate a feat by expending one? If you could offer any help at all, I'd appreciate it. Watch out for Mass Conviction in conjunction with Action Points. Clever players will combo the two to provide an effective +8 or greater bonus to saves that really need to be made (stackable with those vests of resistance everyone wears). - Ron ^*^
zorgling25 07-27-07, 10:31 PM	Watch out for Mass Conviction in conjunction with Action Points. Clever players will combo the two to provide an effective +8 or greater bonus to saves that really need to be made (stackable with those vests of resistance everyone wears). - Ron ^*^ The easy way to avoid that is to ban MHB. Not a huge loss since a lot of MHB material like the Favored Soul can be found elsewhere.
Arrowstorm 07-27-07, 11:07 PM	I thought I would like action points a lot but found out just the opposite. They helped the players way too much and effectively lowered thereal CR of an encounter. The idea here of just using them for d20 rolls is about the only way to keep them playable. Part of the problem is that they are very hard to account for when planning an adventure. It can take bad luck out of the game and make the players feel a little too comfortable. I won't kill a character for bad luck anyway so I found action points annoying. And BTW, when I played with them I was the player. Arrowstorm
zorgling25 07-27-07, 11:18 PM	I thought I would like action points a lot but found out just the opposite. They helped the players way too much and effectively lowered thereal CR of an encounter. The idea here of just using them for d20 rolls is about the only way to keep them playable. Part of the problem is that they are very hard to account for when planning an adventure. It can take bad luck out of the game and make the players feel a little too comfortable. I won't kill a character for bad luck anyway so I found action points annoying. And BTW, when I played with them I was the player. Arrowstorm See, the thing is, Action Points don't help the game if it was already a good difficulty game. It helps when your DM has a problem writing adventures that fit the characters' power level, say, if he always writes adventures that involve many player deaths. Action Points help shift balance the other way.
Lawlicron 07-27-07, 11:44 PM	We don't play Eberron, but we basically use the AP system in Eberron. My players are allowed to use them for any d20 roll. Of course, the NPC's also get action points. :D Just remember that anything you give to the PC's can be given to the NPC's as well. Actually in Eberron and D20Modern NPCs are denied action points.
Kradlo 07-28-07, 02:04 AM	I've used action points in my D&D game (UA version), and before that in Iron Heroes. In all cases, it's been a welcome addition. I find that the most common uses are boosting a d20 roll, and stabilizing while dying. One of the more original uses of emulating a feat was when a character was reduced to 0 hit points - disabled. Rather than try to hobble away from the skeletons, he emulated the feat Toughness, putting him at 3 hp, and no longer disabled. He took off like a bat out of hell, and got away. I also use reserve points, which have allowed the PCs to face more encounters in a day. Even so, I've scared the heck out of them, so I think I'm doing my job right. :devil:
trapspringer 07-28-07, 02:14 AM	I use them in my games. They're good for high-action stuff and encourage risk-taking. They are not good for gritty games or horror.
Mock26 07-28-07, 01:17 PM	One suggestion for people who find that action points make things too easy for the players is that you can seriously reduce the number of action points that a character gets. So, instead of giving out 5 at first level and then 5 + 1/2 for every level of the character when they go up a level, give them 2-4 at first level, and then give them 1 per level. This will still allow the players to use the action points to save their skin from time to time, but it will still leave that element of danger that a lot of DM's and players like.
MSW 07-30-07, 01:57 PM	I've played with Action Points both in Eberron games and in regular D&D. Nothing but good things to say about them. Of course I'm they guy that burns through them all as soon as I get them, except for that 1 reserve to auto stabalize. What I have seen used often to "balance the universe" with regards to Action points is for the DM to keep track of when the Players use them, and any time a PC uses an Action point, that adds 1 Action point to the NPCs Action point pool for the session. That way the NPCs can do some pretty amazing stuff too, or land that hit or make that clutch save at the most needed moment. I can say without any doubt that I prefer to play with Action Points then without them. (I am a notoriously bad dice roller anyway).
bobothechimp 07-30-07, 02:08 PM	I like action points, because they give characters more control over their actions. Sometimes, you just want to make that epic move that you probably wouldn't make normally.
Chris Crouch 07-31-07, 03:08 AM	I like them. One facet that I particularly like is that allows me to scale up encounters aggressively (I'm running Red Hand of Doom with 6 PCs) without worrying too much about a TPK, because the players have these reserves of action points to help them when things are really dire. In my campaign the characters scored a pile of pirate loot early on, so I bought some replica pirate doubloons to use as action point tokens. Chris
Thanuir 07-31-07, 04:29 AM	What I have seen used often to "balance the universe" with regards to Action points is for the DM to keep track of when the Players use them, and any time a PC uses an Action point, that adds 1 Action point to the NPCs Action point pool for the session. That way the NPCs can do some pretty amazing stuff too, or land that hit or make that clutch save at the most needed moment.Now that's a cool idea.