Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Azzrael 01-02-07, 04:07 PM	Hello all. One of my players wants to be able to add his dex bonus to the damage he does with his bow. Does anyone know of any feat that allows this? He actually wanted a magic item that gave him this ability; how powerful do you think that would be, and how much would it cost? Thanks
NightBreeze 01-02-07, 04:17 PM	It should be a very powerfull one, indeed...
Aloki 01-02-07, 04:24 PM	Mighty adds strength if that counts. Used mostly on compound bows...
Magrus 01-02-07, 04:29 PM	No feat and no item as far as I know. However, I have been considering doing a houserule for that. First off, I think it would require a extra cost in the weapon, like the Composite Bow thing. Second, I would say it would require a feat. Third, I would say it would have a direct relevance to the Int of the character. Perhaps with a base feat to allow use, the proper equipment, then leading to the mechanics. Maybe something like it being the difference between Dex and Int being a factor. So, a character with a +22 Dex and a +14 Int would really only get the bonus of (+6-+2= +4) +4 to damage from Dex. The intelligence being involved to limit the player from dumping everything into Dex. The closer the Int is to the Dex, the higher the damage (+6 Dex and +6 Int would lead to +6 Damage, +6 Dex and +0 Int would lead to no damage increase). This would kind of make it something like the Weapon Finesse thing for melee combat. You need to spend a feat, and you get +Att from Dex, and +Damage from Str. It would seperate the abilities. That way, if you wanted to really get the most out of it, you would need to pump two abilities, and it wouldn't get all crazy like. I dunno how to balance and all however. *shrugs* This might be crazy broken too. Just a random thought to toss out.
Kursk 01-02-07, 04:30 PM	It's already there in a way. Dex inceases your hit probability. On a 20 the confirm roll is easier (easier to inflict more damage) due to dex.
Madsamurai 01-02-07, 04:31 PM	well, start by looking at the price of normal magic weapons: It costs 2000gp for +3 damage (i.e. the average on a D6). so, 2000 / 3 is 667gp. Next, because this item, while priced as an enhancment bounus requires an ability score, you can reduce the price by by about 30%, so 667 - (667 * .3) is 466gp. Now, you have an unnamed bounus to damage, so that should boost the cost by a factor of 2, thus you have 933gp finally, becasue this isn't a weapon enhancment, you have to multiply the cost by 1.5, bringing the total up to 1400gp So you cap the amount of bonus dex the item can apply to any arbitrary amount and then use the standard formula. So, for example, for an item that allows up to +4 dex bonus would cost, 4^2 * 1400 or 22400gp If, on the otherhand, you wanted to price this as a weapon special ability, i would go for a +1 equivilent for every +3 dex bounus that will be applied. This way, it's roughly equivilent to the normal +d6 enhancments but trades a dex requirment for damage consistancy. Hope that helped:)
Free1983 01-02-07, 04:59 PM	Maybe something like it being the difference between Dex and Int being a factor. So, a character with a +22 Dex and a +14 Int would really only get the bonus of (+6-+2= +4) +4 to damage from Dex. The intelligence being involved to limit the player from dumping everything into Dex. The closer the Int is to the Dex, the higher the damage (+6 Dex and +6 Int would lead to +6 Damage, +6 Dex and +0 Int would lead to no damage increase). I don't really see the logic of your example. So when I have a 22 dex and a 14 dex, I would compare the the int modifier (+2) to the dex modifier (+6) and get a result of +4 damage. I dare to say that (as I see it) this way the player is encouraged to maximize the difference between dexterity and intelligence. As a "parallel" example: Dex 22 Int 10 Modifiers: +6 - +0 = +6 => +6 damage bonus. Though I might be missing some calculation you made. Maths make my head hurt :( . Anyway, I'm perhaps not telling you what you want to hear, but I actually can't visualise someone shooting in this or that peculiar kind of way that dexterity should do damage. I've also never seen any bow that could do this thing. It's not that I'm saying you shouldn't do this, just that i don't really see the purpose. If he wants to munchkin his bow than there are lots of other ways. If he's not trying to maximize anything, he could be happy with all the benefits a high dexterity scores give you. If he's got some kind of strange concept in his head, ask him how he visualises (sp?) this and tell us. Not sure this helps at all, but I'll check back here and perhaps things are more clear to me then too; In the mean time, have fun
Azzrael 01-02-07, 05:00 PM	Thanks a lot MadSamurai, that's perfect. Boils it down to a nice and easy +1 enhancement/3 dex. Makes sense, and it's easy. Thanks
orionm42 01-02-07, 05:22 PM	Sounds like you already have the answer you want...but, similar to Magrus, I would consider allowing it through a house rule feat. I would differ from Magrus in that the feat would be very similar to weapon specialization. Under my version of a house rule feat, you would need to take weapon focus first. The new feat would then allow you to apply your dex bonus to damage with the selected weapon only. Anyway, that is just a thought. I am not sure if it is balanced because I haven't really analyzed it all the way through. So...take it for what it's worth! :)
pres_man 01-02-07, 05:40 PM	I believe there is a feat that allows you to get 1/2 your dex modifier as bonus damage when using a crossbow.
Magrus 01-02-07, 05:42 PM	@Free1983, I had a hard time thinking of how to explain it. I'm still not sure how to word it right. You're doing it wrong though is all I know. :p Umm, the way I meant it to be would be a combination of the the character using his dexterity to aim the shot at a better target, and the intelligence to know that better target. Kind of like a pressure point. You may be able to hit a better target with the high Dex and do more damage, but without the Int to know the best targets, you can't apply your true skill fully. So, your Dex sets the max. Your Int limits it. If both are 16, you can do +3. If Dex is 16, and Int is 12, you only get +1. You may be able to hit the special pressure point, you just have no freaking clue where it may be.
Limousine_Liberal 01-02-07, 05:48 PM	There are a few class features (hence better than feats) and magic items/enchantments that allow it. Check: X Stat to Y Bonus (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4584975)
Shadowmagyk 01-02-07, 05:56 PM	Applying DEX to damage doesnt make any sense. Strength is needed to draw the bow. The stronger that you are, the further back you can draw the bow. This allows for more tension on the bow, which applies more force on the arrow, causing more damage upon impact. That is why there are Mighty bows. There is no way to finagle a bow to shoot harder by maneuvering it, which is what applyng the DEX mod would imply. One could argue that applying the DEX mod means that he is finding the chinks in the armor, but there is already a feat for that, as well as an entire mechanic called "critical hits." What I see with this question is "How can I do the most with my character by using only one stat?" A high DEX score already does a lot for a character. Giving him the ability to do more damage his DEX is just crying for abuse. Very soon, you will be complaining about not being able to hit your PCs' AC, and everyone will become high-DEX archers. Next, it will degenerate into conversations about this being allowed for melee weapons, too. That will be an even bigger mistake. Of course, I have become old and crotchety, so... :zzz:
M.E. Charm 01-02-07, 06:08 PM	There's a sniper feat in PHB2 I think, that lets you add half your dex bonus to damage to your crossbow (and it lets you sneak attack at 60ft). Perhaps that would be a nice feat, half dex rounded down for bow within 30ft.
OravennasBrother 01-02-07, 06:47 PM	Next, it will degenerate into conversations about this being allowed for melee weapons, too. That will be an even bigger mistake. I actually saw a feat alowing a character to use Dex for Melee Damage - of course that was in a Polyhedron game where the PC's are Computer Avatars and the game confroms to "Computer" reality where size is next to useless. That article/mini-game did make it clear how well 3.X simulates computer gaming.
Khatoblepas 01-02-07, 06:58 PM	I actually saw a feat alowing a character to use Dex for Melee Damage - of course that was in a Polyhedron game where the PC's are Computer Avatars and the game confroms to "Computer" reality where size is next to useless. That article/mini-game did make it clear how well 3.X simulates computer gaming. Not to mention the Champion of Corellon Latherian. Dex to damage there. But then again, it is elves. And the Dead Eye feat from the Dragon Compendium / DR304. Only within 30ft, though. The elves, I tell you. Elves.
KurenaiYami 01-02-07, 07:25 PM	Not to mention the Champion of Corellon Latherian. Dex to damage there. But then again, it is elves. And the Dead Eye feat from the Dragon Compendium / DR304. Only within 30ft, though. The elves, I tell you. Elves. Also a feat that does this in Tome of Battle, though a bit more restrictive, requiring you be in a Shadow Hand stance and using a Shadow Hand weapon.
DM Zoc 01-02-07, 09:58 PM	Deadeye allows Dex to damage within 30 feet, with a ranged weapon in which you have weapon focus. Crossbow Sniper allows you to add half of your Dex bonus for crossbows in which you have weapon focus, and extends the range for all precision damages out to 60 feet. Combining the two is an obvious choice.
Drodain 01-02-07, 10:11 PM	Bow-*****s do to much damage already at higher levels, a bow-***** can blow do plenty of damage already. If you know your player is in no way a munchkin then I might consider it, but really you can get into inxane damage doing that.
Merryadocc 01-03-07, 12:38 AM	One of my players wants to be able to add his dex bonus to the damage he does with his bow. Does anyone know of any feat that allows this? I skipped alot of the thread and I am answering the first question only. Feat: Dead Eye Article:"Asheron's Call 2: Fallen Kings" Author: Clifford Horowitz Dragon: 304(pg.84) I hope the DragonDex is accurate, I have used this feat before and it is insane. Only applies your dex to damage under specific conditions. I'll let you find it and enjoy it as much as I did.
angryman 01-03-07, 12:43 AM	Adding Dex to damage would be far too strong, as you can already add +4 from strength, and Dex is already very powerful as a stat.
keropie 01-03-07, 01:08 AM	For flavor purposes, you'd also need to restrict it to critters that take critical hit damage. I mean what, you hit the zombie in it's aorta? Like it cares. For balance reasons, I'd stay FAR away from a straight 'allow dex to damage for ranged weapons.' Dex is already close to the BEST physical stat (init modifier, ac mod, ranged hit mod, finesse weapon mod, lots of skills, reflex save), so it really doesn't need any more. Crossbow sniper works out ok because you can't apply str damage at all, and it's 1/2 dex, and there's a range limit. Dead Eye sounds suspect to me, but I'm not familiar with it. And if you're really looking at the Dex-Int thing, you'd almost need Knowledge(target type) rolls to make sure. So, you're smart. Where, pray tell, is the critical spot to hit that Crocodile over there. Cause it sure isn't the same spot as a human. Or that giant worm. Or that dragon (though everyone knows they have a soft spot in the scales on the belly that they cover with metal from their horde, right?)
Greenpepa 01-03-07, 01:50 AM	My gaming group houserules that dex is used for bows in the same way the str is used in melee, so an attack with a bow uses dex to beat ac, and then dex to damage, but not str to damage. We see this as using your high dex to aim for weaker points in the opponents armor (or other related things) This has always been balanced in the games we play and has never been an issue, just make sure your other players agree
Free1983 01-03-07, 05:43 AM	So, your Dex sets the max. Your Int limits it. If both are 16, you can do +3. If Dex is 16, and Int is 12, you only get +1. You may be able to hit the special pressure point, you just have no freaking clue where it may be. Basically you are saying, the lowest modifier gives you the damage bonus. I think that could be a way to do this. I do feel compelled to say (as lots of posters did already) that this seems to be a way to maximize by bending/breaking the rules. The way you describe it, seems like a sneak attack. You know where to hit and if you hit it, you get extra damage (or as said the critical system). But I have to admit that neither of those use dex or int as a factor to better your chances to do damage (although you would think that a rogue is quite intelligent). So I still don't see the picture, but perhaps that's more a job for azzrael than for you Magrus.
Senevri 01-03-07, 07:49 AM	Well, Sneak attack - or more generally, precision-based damage _is_ essentially the skill of hitting the weak spot. That being said, I think burning a feat to get DEX to damage under specific situations, or half dex to damage, is quite okay.
Zumarai 01-03-07, 08:03 AM	Doesn't the Deepwood Sniper PrC have something along this line (dex to ranged damage)?
CrusherFist 01-03-07, 08:45 AM	In some of the campaigns I’ve been in some of our players have figured out an easy way to add dex damage with a bow. The formula we used was every +2 or +4 modifier equaled +1 point of damage. So the chart was set up something like this we went with a +4 modifier instead of +2. +4= 1; +8= 2 ; +12= 3 and so on. So depending on the character placing points were caution. At most the highest was +2 damage with a bow. So it really didnt overpower the character it balanced him damage wise. hopefully that might help out. *note this was a house feat that was with weapon proficency*
kelvinaw273 01-03-07, 09:17 AM	I tried adding Dex bonus to damage with missile weapons and Weapon Finesse weapons ... it didn't really work, just made rogues very dangerous.
Sim_antix 01-03-07, 09:22 AM	I believe there is a feat that allows you to get 1/2 your dex modifier as bonus damage when using a crossbow. Was it only half? Either way pres_man beat me to it, there is already a similar feat that can be adapted to fit your needs.
Magrus 01-03-07, 09:49 AM	Basically you are saying, the lowest modifier gives you the damage bonus. I think that could be a way to do this. I do feel compelled to say (as lots of posters did already) that this seems to be a way to maximize by bending/breaking the rules. The way you describe it, seems like a sneak attack. You know where to hit and if you hit it, you get extra damage (or as said the critical system). But I have to admit that neither of those use dex or int as a factor to better your chances to do damage (although you would think that a rogue is quite intelligent). So I still don't see the picture, but perhaps that's more a job for azzrael than for you Magrus. *nods* However, with the cost of doing up a Dex version for a Composite bow, and spending a feat, as well as requiring 2 attributes, it would make it harder to get access to adding Dex damage than just allowing a character with a 22 Dex to have +6 to hit AND damage at range, no? You could make a broken character with it yes, but you can with anything already anyhow. That's how WotC made the new editions, for powergamers.
mlund 01-03-07, 01:06 PM	Hm, I don't have the material at hand to check, but could Monkey Grip make it possible for a Medium creature to use a Large sized Ranged Weapon? The upgrade from 1d8 to 2d6 Damage is nothing to sneeze at, and a high Dex would compensate for the -2 to hit penalty. - Marty Lund