Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ced666 07-27-06, 03:19 PM	Hello, For an orcish captain, somebody gave me the suggestion to add him one or two levels of fighter. That seems a good suggestion. But how will I manage to do that (yes I'm a beginner DM :D) ? Simply calculating the increase of HP like any normal char and giving him all the 'things' that comes for a level 2 fighter ? Or is there some other things I need to take care ? Thank you
ChaoticGood 07-27-06, 03:27 PM	Hi Ced! Welcome to DMing! Making this Orcish captain is really as simple as it sounds... Just add two levels of Fighter to the Monster Manual's stats. Heck, I'll even break it down for you: Add 2d10 more hit points, +2 base attack bonus, +3 Fort save, and two Fighter bonus feats. Oh, and keep in mind that the regular Orc statistics in the Monster Manual are for an Orc with one level of Warrior, so what you have really created is an Orc Warrior 1/Fighter 2. This is an excellent "boss" character for a low-level party, especially if they are new to the game.
FinisofLife 07-27-06, 03:28 PM	Doing what you said is basically all you need. Just make him as if he was a PC orc. Though some nice individualized equipment is always nice to keep things original. Not every orc in the world wields a Falchion and javelins anyway right?
Ced666 07-27-06, 03:32 PM	Thank you for your answers :) Heck, I'll even break it down for you: Add 2d10 more hit points, +2 base attack bonus, +3 Fort save, and two Fighter bonus feats. lol, thanks a lot for that ;) Not every orc in the world wields a Falchion and javelins anyway right? Yep, that's true. I was planning to change it's weapon also, so you confirmed the idea. Thanks
Stumm_Dolch 07-27-06, 04:49 PM	A Goblin lackey with a net would be great comic relief for your party until one of them got hit with it.
Riznar 07-27-06, 04:53 PM	Since you're a beginner I'd also say take away the falchion too...but if you were more experienced I would say keep it. Orcs with falchions are scary as hell (It's one of the best weapons for them) Also remember that your orc boss also gets a feat for being third level. So adding 2 levels of fighter gives him 3 feats total!
Arganis 07-27-06, 05:00 PM	The Monster Manual entry for Orcs also contains an entry for Orcs as characters. If you use the provided racial traits in place of any of the PHB races, you can create an Orc Fighter just as you would a Dwarven Fighter. EDIT: Stuff that wasn't really relevant in the first place because I must have been something: In the orc's case, there is no racial hit dice or level adjustment, so you don't have to worry about the added complexity of calculating the creature's ECL. For future reference though: ECL = Racial HD + Class Levels + Level Adjustment
Kradlo 07-27-06, 06:00 PM	You don't have to have that first level be Warrior. Your Orc fighter could start out as a fighter. Monstrous humanoids that have 1 hit die base (like Orcs) that take a character class use the hit dice of that class, including for the first hit die. So, while you could make an Orc Warrior 1/Fighter 2, you could make him a Fighter 3. Instead of 1d8 + 2d10 + 3xCon modifier, he'd have 3d10 + 3xCon modifier. It's not a huge difference (+1 hit points on average), but also his Reflex and Will saves will be +1 higher, and he'll be ready for that bonus feat when he makes 4th level.
Cifer 07-27-06, 07:47 PM	In the orc's case, there is no racial hit dice or level adjustment, so you don't have to worry about the added complexity of calculating the creature's CR. For future reference though: CR = Racial HD + Class Levels + Level Adjustment You made the classical mistake of mixing up ECL (effective character level) with CR (challenge rating). Look at the mindflayer: 8HD, LA+7, but a challenge rating of 8. Level adjustment is completely unimportant when the monster is not used as a PC or cohort. Challenge rating usually has no fast and hard rule behind it, except for the fact that adding a number of pc-class levels to a monster adds the same amount to its CR if the levels support the monster in a meaningfull way (Orc+barbarian) or half of that if they don't (skeleton+wizard - no intelligence, no spellcasting). The reason behind this is that level adjustment abjudicates how powerful the monster would be in the hands of a player - Abilities like flight, teleport or telepathy are way more powerful when the possessor is not a one-time combat opponent. An NPC-mindflayer might detect the thoughts of a character and thus attack them. A PC-mindflayer might detect the thoughts of just about anything, noticing any people wanting to betray him and generally having a much easier time - which is why he gets a LA.
Arganis 07-27-06, 07:51 PM	You made the classical mistake of mixing up ECL (effective character level) with CR (challenge rating). Indeed I did sir!
ChaoticGood 07-27-06, 10:42 PM	Also remember that your orc boss also gets a feat for being third level. So adding 2 levels of fighter gives him 3 feats total! D'oh! I knew I was forgetting something! As for the other comments, re: starting with a base Orc, etc., I was just trying to keep it simple. :P
Ced666 07-28-06, 02:38 AM	Thanks for your answers :)
Zherog 07-28-06, 10:40 AM	D'oh! I knew I was forgetting something! As for the other comments, re: starting with a base Orc, etc., I was just trying to keep it simple. :P You also forgot to mention skill points. ;) So, while you could make an Orc Warrior 1/Fighter 2, you could make him a Fighter 3. Instead of 1d8 + 2d10 + 3xCon modifier, he'd have 3d10 + 3xCon modifier. It's not a huge difference (+1 hit points on average), but also his Reflex and Will saves will be +1 higher, and he'll be ready for that bonus feat when he makes 4th level. Fighter 2/barbarian 1 would be more effective than fighter 3. ;) For an NPC who's going to die, that third level of fighter is just about as useless as a level of warrior - it grants some hit points, some (sucky) skills, BAB, and saves. No class features at all. Besides, think of the fun looks on your PCs' faces when the orc rages. :D