Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Awaken Dragon 06-22-04, 11:41 PM	Okay I know it migh seem wrong or stupid but I'm planning on adding a template on to one of my characters. I need him to have this template or some of my ideas for the campaign won't work. I've got 4 PCS and they've all play key roles. Right now the player I'm planning on adding it too doesn't seem that powerful or all that helpful..however once he faces a grueling trial in my next adventure he'll be changed....now I ask is that such a bad thing. The template I'm planning on using is posted in the MotP boards under "New Extra-Planar Template" I cleaned it up a bit from what it was on the original thread Warning: I know this sounds like a PRC but I need it to be a template in my campaign Heres the template Eso-Thran (extraplanar, alignment) Dice Type: change racial to d8. Class levels not effected Speed: Same as base Attacks: Same as base Damage: Same as base Special Attacks:- Special Qualities; Darkvision 60 feet, spell like abilities, SR (variable), Resistance (variable) Abilities: +2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Cha Skills: + 10 racial to Knowledge(the planes) Ecl: +2 Eso-thran are a race of extra-planar travels with innate magical abilities. Only those who have innate magical powers can gain the benefits of this template. This template is both a acquired and inherit template. Creatures can be natural born with this template from other Eso-Thran , or get this template through traumatic and rigorous extra-planar trails or experience. There eyes are shining crystalline blue and there features are more stunning. As the Eso-Thran plane-shift multiple symbols of the designated plane swirl on the Eso-Thrans skin. Sorcerers and Bards are commonly Eso-Thran. Dragons, Celestial, Demons, Devils, and other innately magical beings are commonly Eso-Thran. Resistance HD Good aligned (acid,cold and electric) 1-9 : 5 10+ : 10 Evil aligned (cold and fire) 1-9 : 5 10+ : 10 Neutral Lawful (Fire, cold, Electric, and Sonic) 1-9 : 5 10+ : 10 Neutral Chaotic (Acid,Fire,Cold,Electric, and Sonic) 1-9 : 5 10+ : 10 Neutral (Negative Energy) 1-9 : 5 10+ : 10 Spell-like abilites HD Abilities 11-12 : 11-Planeshift 1/day, 12-Dimensional Door 1/day 13-14 : 13-Planar Survivale 14-Analyze Portal 3/day 15-16 : 15-Contact another plane 17-18 : 17-Planeshift 2/day 18- Etherealness 1/day 19-20 : 19-Planeshift at will 21+ : 21- Gate 1/day ( see description) The Hit Dice must be magicly innate: meaning they either have to be racial Hit Dice, such as outsiders have, or class die such as bard or Sorcerer. However if say a Sorcerer started taking up levels in fighter, the Fighter Hit Dice would not get the benefit of Eso-Thran Spell-like Abilities or Resistance. The base creature must have a charisma of 8 or higher in order to gain the spell-like abilites. The spells level is HD base. Resistance: Any evil Eso-Thran (NE,LE,CE) are resistant to cold and fire. Any good Eso-Thran (NG,LG,CG) are resistant to acid,cold and electric. If an Eso-Thran is Lawful Neutral they are resistant to Fire, cold, Electric, and Sonic. If an Eso-Thran is Chaotic Neutral then it is resistant to Acid,Fire,Cold,Electric, and Sonic. If a Eso-Thran is purely Neutral then it is resistant to negative energy. Gate: Can not be used to call a specific individual. You may call a general sort of creature Example: You may summon a Celestial, but you can not summon Ralcor, the level 5 hound archon fighter you meet while you were in Celestia . You may summon a specific type of outsider such as a Hound Archon however you have a 75% chance of success. Spell Resistance: Eso-Thran have spell resistance = to there hit dice + 5 (20 max) The character: Nykon Oneshoe Alignment: Neutral Good Class: Sorcerer/Cleric Deity: Boccob Level: 4 Sorc/ 3 Cleric Domains: Trickeryand Magic Abilites: Str:13 Dex:15 Con:15 Int:14 Wis: 16 Cha: 18 Hes the guy I'm planning on gives this template to. What do you think?
Matrixy 06-23-04, 12:39 AM	I hate it.
MetalGemini 06-23-04, 12:20 PM	Sounds like a cheap way to power up a character. You can get all those abilities by just leveling up more or getting some magic items. I don't think it adds much to the role-playing value of the character. Just having your character take a new interest in interplanar travel would do the same. Sorry to shoot you down, but I'd never allow this template in one of my games.
Awaken Dragon 06-23-04, 02:15 PM	True...I could just give him have him fight some monsters and have him get the magical items. I could have him sneak in the castle and grab a ring of planeshift or something like that...but I want to be more origanl. Its not an over powering template. Its going to take him a while to get to level ten sorc and he lagging behind the rest of the group. His power won't exceed that of anyone else in the party. I've got plenty of thing lines up in order to challenge the whole party and indiviual characters. This just happens to be a pivotal point in the campaign where power starts going up the scales. Its going to happen to the rest of the party members as well. Hes just getting his step up the latter.
WhtKnt 06-23-04, 02:45 PM	If you weren't the GM, I'd be extremely suspect. If the character seems to be of not much use, then you (as the GM) need to provide an opportunity for him to shine, not boost his power level. In a party of four characters, I can't imagine anyone not having something to contribute. As for the template itself, I'd say it's a lot more powerful than you think it is. Consider that you're granting the character a total of +6 to stats, a considerable bonus to Knowledge (the planes), resistance against three of the most common types of energy, spell resistance on top of that, and the ability (at higher levels) to plane shift at will. Yes, it's limited to X many uses per day, but still, that's a pretty significant bonus. Think about this scenario: The character is 13th level and the party comes across a red dragon. Oneshoe gets initiative and merely smiles. He grabs the dragon and plane shifts it to the elemental plane of water, then demands full experience for defeating the dragon (since he bested it himself). The DM begins beating his head against a wall. :banghead: Gods help you when he reaches 19th level and can do this at will. Nothing you throw at him could stand against him. Just plane shift any threat to the negative material plane (or positive material plane if undead). If they don't have a means to get back, and fast, they're dead. Also, the template is completely unbalanced. As a player, I'd immediately shift my alignment to chaotic neutral. Whatever penalty the DM comes up with for a voluntary alignment change is probably worth resistance to all forms of energy. What is your reasoning for the way these resistances are arranged? Seriously, if I were this guy, as soon as I found out what the template could do, I'd change my alignment to chaotic neutral and make sure I picked up Improved Initiative as soon as possible. Then I would put every level into sorcerer, taking a +1 to Cha at levels 8 and 12 and a +1 to Dex at levels 16 and 20. Pick up spells like stoneskin and haste and then just make sure that you pick out the BBEG in each encounter. I'm not saying that he can't be defeated, mind you, but you're sure making it hard on yourself (and unnecessarily hard on the other party members, who are going to have to suffer the fallout as you try to make the encounters challenging for him).
hekker 06-23-04, 03:58 PM	To make a powerfull template work balanced, you may think think of using the class progression which is also used at wizards.com for werewolves etc. Basically, you take the la in lvl (so if it's an la +4 template, you need to invest 4 levels before you get all the benefits. Whtnt: Agree, the resistances are not equal for the alingment, this should be fixed. My ECL calculation: (based on: the ECL calculator (http://csserver.evansville.edu/~jc84/DD3/Monster_ECL.htm) ) Darkvision: +0.1 Ability adjustment: +0.4 Skill bonus: +0.5 (I suggest nerfing the +10 bonus...) Spell-like abilities: +1 (at least) Energy resistance: +0.5 Spell resistance: +0.5 (although difficult to judge because gets higher) --------------------- la: 3 My suggested template class So make him take 3 lvls of EsoThran Class (getting used to the abilities etc may take a few lvls). 1st lvl: darkvision, +3 knowledge bonus, SR equal to lvl, some spell-like abilities, energy resistance 1 2nd lvl: +3 knowledge bonus, Energy resistance 5, some more spell-like abilities, Ability adjustment (Int and Cha) 3rd lvl: The rest of the spell-like, the remaining +4 knowledge bonus, SR equal to lvl +5, Energy resistance 10, Con bonus Would this work for you? This takes care of a player not suddenly becoming too powerfull. The in-game logic of taking 'levels' of template might be that a character slowly discovers the new powers of his newly aquired template/race. It may also be that due to the extra 'planar experience' the character undergoes, his powers increase. I would let the levels in 'Eso Thran' count to his lvl for SR, Spell-like etc (just to be nice :))
Awaken Dragon 06-23-04, 09:05 PM	Okay I've cleaned it up a bit more so it won't be so over powered. This is my first time running a full length campaign and I'm trying to feel out a few things. Heres the template: Eso-Thran (extraplanar, alignment) Dice Type: change racial to d8. Class levels not effected Speed: Same as base Attacks: Same as base Damage: Same as base Special Attacks:- Special Qualities; Darkvision 60 feet, spell like abilities, SR (variable), Resistance (variable) Abilities: +2 Cha Skills: +6 racial to Knowledge(the planes) Ecl: +2 Eso-thran are a race of extra-planar travels with innate magical abilities. Only those who have innate magical powers can gain the benefits of this template. This template is both a acquired and inherit template. Creatures can be natural born with this template from other Eso-Thran , or get this template through traumatic and rigorous extra-planar trails or experience. There eyes are shining crystalline blue and there features are more stunning. As the Eso-Thran plane-shift multiple symbols of the designated plane swirl on the Eso-Thrans skin. Eso-Thran are commonly Sorcerers and Bards. Dragons, Celestial, Demons, Devils, and other innately magical beings are commonly Eso-Thran. Resistance HD Cold, Fire, and Electric 1-9 5 10+ : 10 Spell-like abilites HD Abilities 11-12 : 11-Planeshift(see description) 1/day, 12-Dimensional Door 1/day 13-14 : 13-Planar Survival 14-Analyze Portal 3/day 15-16 : 15-Contact another plane 17-18 : 17-Planeshift 2/day 18- Etherealness 1/day 19-20 : 19-Planeshift at will 21+ : 21- Gate 1/day ( see description) The Hit Dice must be magicly innate: meaning they either have to be racial Hit Dice, such as outsiders have, or class die such as bard or Sorcerer. However if say a Sorcerer started taking up levels in fighter, the Fighter Hit Dice would not get the benefit of Eso-Thran Spell-like Abilities or Resistance. The base creature must have a charisma of 8 or higher in order to gain the spell-like abilites. The spells level is HD base. Planeshift: This works as the spell except, it only works on you and any other willing creatures only. Gate: Can not be used to call a specific individual. You may call a general sort of creature Example: You may summon a Celestial, but you can not summon Ralcor, the level 5 hound archon fighter you meet while you were in Celestia . You may summon a specific type of outsider such as a Hound Archon however you have a 75% chance of success. Spell Resistance: Eso-Thran have spell resistance = to there character + 5 (20 max) That sound balanced?
Matrixy 06-24-04, 02:39 AM	Without even looking at it, I can tell you it's too complicated. 86 the whole idea. If you need something special to happen, slap him with a cursed item of power that fuses to his (insert body part) or compels him to keep it. Or have him posessed by a Fiend of Posession. Or have a Fey or Celestial grant him a spell-like ability or something. Don't get so unnecessarily complex.
Awaken Dragon 06-24-04, 09:15 AM	My thinking behind it is that okay right now hes a 3lv clr/ 4lv sorc. Now everyone in our groups either multiclassing or has a ecl of some sort ( half dragon, minataur) I project by the end of the adventure he'll be 4lv clr/ 5lv sorc. When he gets the template he'll just being having a boost to cha, some more knowledge of the planes, energy resistance, darkvision and a Sr of ten. Now everyone else in the party's got something specail...our minataur is a lawful good monk. Hes really powerful. We've got a half golden dragon paladin. Our rogues been a pretty heavy hitter with sneak attacks and opening locks. Hes never had his time to shine. This adventure I'm giving him the oppertunity too, plus he'll help later on with the few future adventures I have planned. Thats why I need him to have this template. Also, in this adventure that I have planned him and him alone will be traveling many different planes to get some artifacts the party needs to close a portal to a hell prison dimension that the "bug bads" of the adventures trying to open. Why him alone? Because on the material plane, our "big bad" trying to open the portal while the rest of use duke it out with him to try and keep him from doing so before it can be open. After he gets back from a wild and draining trip through out the planes, My cleric/sorcerer, will have to sacrifice him self in order to close the portal for good so it can never be open again. Two semi-adventures will go by with out him and then he'll come back as a 4 lv cleric/ 5 lv sorcerer and with the Eso-Thran template on him. In the two semi-adventures after the one where he "dyes" they'll be sufficent challenges, if the rest of my PCs, can handle ( which I fully expect they will) will get suficent exp and rewards to match their newly resurrected plane-traveling spellcaster companion.
Jenny With The Lantern 06-24-04, 09:32 AM	Definately ask the player if he's at all interested if you're gonna pull something like this; I know I wouldn't be happy AT ALL.. What if he ditches the character right after you do this to him? Anyways I don't like the idea; you should work with special magic items IMO; they don't have to be unoriginal!
Awaken Dragon 06-24-04, 11:49 AM	I see everyones point..however I've already designed the template and the adventure. This is more of an reward for sacrificing his life and closing the portal permanently. Hes going to be using a magical item to travel the planes to get the artifacts, but after he picks up his last artifact and returns to the material plane it will crumble. I was thinking alternativing as having him use having it as a one time use device and once he gets to his first plane to pick up the artifact a portal opens to the next plane. He has to go to nine different planes in order to retrieve these artifacts. If any one has an alternative suggestion to the template or a way of giving him a innate ability to travel the planes later I'm open to any ideas.
Autosponge 06-24-04, 01:07 PM	Um.. is this a DMPC? You are the DM and this is a party member? Am I understanding this right? If that's the case, it's all a terrible idea, scrap it and start over.
Awaken Dragon 06-24-04, 02:59 PM	Okay I think I get the message...bad idea...hows this sound...I'm keeping the adventure ...however the player will be granted some specail abilities. Basicly.. +6 comprehension bonus to Knowledge(the planes) +2 cha at 11th level he can plane shift once per day. Same rules apply as in the template. at 15 3/day 20 at will or Mantle of the Planes: Grants wearer +4 comprehension bonus to Knowledge (the planes) and can planeshift 3/day same rules apply as in Eso-Thran Template. I apreciate the feedback. I'm an up and coming DM I don't have a whole lot of expierence. I thought it would be a nice reward to a seemingly underpowered character, but I understand where your all coming from. my party hasn't played in a while and I was hoping to restart things with a bang.
artman 06-25-04, 01:35 AM	Why, why, why, why, why,? This... it's just... so... WHY? It makes no sense at all. Why are you doing this? I understand that this character is supposed to be the cornerstone of some great and powerful plot hook but, in all honesty, that answer is a little trite. Why does he need this power? Why does he need to be special? It makes no sense. If he needs to get a specific bit of info then just make sure that he gets it. Adding a bonus to a skill will still give him the chance of not doing what you need him to do. Heck, even if you give him the exact info there is nothing to make him do what you want. I need him to have this template or some of my ideas for the campaign won't work Bad DM, BAD! Never do this. Never have your ideas for a story based on one guys actions. BAD! THe Pc will almost never do what you expect. If he doesn't do what you want then you are back to square one with an inexplicably powerful PC on your hands. It just makes no sense... why?
Awaken Dragon 06-25-04, 09:04 AM	OKAY I GET IT! NO TEMPLATING A PC I THOUGHT I MADE THAT CLEAR LAST POST... ...I just need him to be able to planeshift. I think the way I have to plot of the next adventure figured he'll do what I need him to...and I'm going to make it pretty obvious...reason I need him to planeshift is that once he reachs the level able to planeshift (10) I'll be able to have them travel the planes to do other stuff. I plane for us to have many planar encounters, traveling to other planes, planar puzzles, and other stuff like that. I just need someone to be able to planeshift. He the perfect candidate. ...and as I said in the last post I'm just going to give him some minor stuff not giving him a template.