Post/Author/DateTime	Post
11d7 07-28-05, 08:42 AM	I have for over a year now had the exact same group of players. We disided to take a break from D&D for a while though since we had other intrests we wanted to spend more time on (we are trying to build a 8'x6' Warhammer table). Since I had a new campaign already in the late design stage (enouph to start) I disided to find a new group. This campaign by the way is almost completely RAW unlike my normal house rule filled things These players dont fit together well and although most of them have intrest in the main quest they seem to be fighting about how to go about it. Also 2 of the players are constantly trying to do their own thing, with one of them its not that bad but the other they are stepping way out of their grounds as a player for a sake of their back story (makeing up NPC and place that dont fit the world). These are the players and their characters: A: 'A' plays a Half-Elf Bard who is pritty much the party leader. Main stats being Int, Wis and Cha they have alot of social skills. Their background is pritty typical of a half-elf (finding their identity) but this player or character doesnt cause any group problems, infact they are trying to fix them. B: 'B' plays a Human Rogue, no so much focused on sneaking than combat. They have expressed intrest in me creating a few martial arts style feats for them but so far everything seems ok. This player isnt one of the troubled ones but is best freinds with 'E' a troubled player. C: 'C' is a Human Shaman (OA version), most concerned with the main quest he doesnt like 'D' for reasons you will soon find out. Other than that they have no problems that need to be delt with. D: 'D' took his entire character concept from Jade Empire, he is The Black Whirlwind (one of my favorite characters so I dont mind that he took it, but if you have played the game and know his backstory you will know why its an issue). A 2 Axe weilding Human Barbarian with a intrest in fighting and wine. He has alot of side quests involving him slaughtering people becuase it was the only way out of the stupid situation he got himself into. CN but he manages to stay out of CS (S for Stupid). He is concerned with the main quest but somtimes he get in the way like say if they have to go back to the same town twice or go anywhere his background says that hes been. So far 'A' has been claiming he has him under his magical control and no one has passed a Sence Motive check yet, but just incase both wear matching fake magic armlets that only give off an enchantment aura. E: 'E' is a Elf Wizard on an Ego trip, even though the party is level 3 right now. He is constantly at odds with 'A' and 'D' for command of the group and has a tendacy to 'withhold his aid' when the rest of the party doesnt agree with him (this is his character though being a Elf Wizard). His issue is that it seems like he always gives me new npcs and location that dont fit the world to be is freinds. I took some of them that I could fit to make him happy at first but he doesnt stop and now hes giving me level 12 allies he has made in his travels. I told him to stop and why but he doesnt seem to want to. Most recently he gave me a stroy Arc about how his character is the messiah for the dieing elf race in my setting! I would normaly tell him to stop or leave but hes 'B''s ride to I dont want to do that just yet becuase I will loose 2 players over it and 'B' is a good player. Any advice on how to deal with this?
alecthemad 07-28-05, 09:09 AM	These are not hard to fix. The number one way to deal with problem players is to not allow their problems to affect the game. This is easier said than done so let me give some examples. The biggest trick to to allow the things that annoy you very little time or attention and zero experience. If the thinks the annoying players want to do would take a lot of game time then allow them to do it. Give them no rewards of any kind: no cash, no loot, no experience. Then turn to the rest of the players and let them go on the adventure. If the problem player says ok here I come you come back with no, you are busy on your back story. They are busy adventuring. Let the group get their experience and loot. Now it should not even take a whole session for them to realize what they are missing. So you need to give them an opportunity to give up on the background stuff and join the group. Your motivating powers as a GM are providing a fun game, experience points and loot (gold, magic, etc.). Most people will seek those out, if their actions deny them xp then they will usually cease in short order. Now here is some specific advice. With Black whirlwind you have him denied access to a particular town. Then have the party have an encounter or two which provide not insignificant access to xp and loot. The do not need to be combat encounters. With the elf have one of his "allies" summon him. The ally says that he wanted to bring the elf to celebrate the birth of his son. Hey a party wheee. But no loot or experience. Then have the party have an encounter or two which provide not insignificant access to xp and loot. The do not need to be combat encounters. In both these cases the minimum amount of time should be used to describe events relating to the problem player. You should also deal with only one at a particular game session so as to not have two potentially angry players at the table. A few applications of these should mitigate most problems. Now you might hear complaints such as why can't I adventure. The simple answer is I have a game to run. I would like for you to have your backstory but I cannot take away from the rest of the group to focus on you. I hope this advice helps. If not then post here and I will try again.
Phrennzy 07-28-05, 11:50 AM	"elf messiah" is a bit much. Perhaps he was one of many elves sent into the world to find a cure for a fairly rare but deadly elf-only disease. The disease has taken hold in his home town - and is killing the elders (slowly, like a cancer - over a period of months or a few years <which would seem quick to elves>). This gives him a reason to adventure and be a hero. The player invents level 12 allies? No. Not without an amazingly good reason. Either that, or his allies are ALWAYS out on missions. They're busy busy busy. Don't let them sit at home. Don't let him use them for item creation or money - maybe some info from time to time, but that's it. I don't know Jade Empire, or the character. What "stupid situtation" did he get himself into that he has to slaughter people? Need more info here. Remember that the players want their guy to be cool, and the best at what they do. It's a game, and they should shine.
11d7 07-28-05, 01:27 PM	I don't know Jade Empire, or the character. What "stupid situtation" did he get himself into that he has to slaughter people? Need more info here. Well the character from Jade Empire for example was once hired to keep the peace between 2 waring clan during peace talks. It was going well but some fight broke out so The black whirlwind killed a few dozen clansmen from each side to stop the fighting, he sorta jumped in the middle of their battle killing both sides till they stopped. Then the talks were going well until the 2 clan leaders could not choose who got a beutifal clans woman. They argued for days until the black whirlwind speeded the peace prosses up. He cleaved the woman in half and told each leader to talk half. They were all angery at him and he had to wipe out both clans to save himself, and then there was peace. Another example was once after doing a mission for a magistrate he was given his daughter's hand in marrage. She wasn't ugly so the black whirlwind agreed. Well he got drunk the wedding night and woke up in bed next to the magistrates wife so he left to go back to his wifes room. He found his wife in bed with another man and killed him and his wife came into the room screaming and the woman in the bed was screaming. He had killed his sisters brother in law thinking the sister was his wife. An honest mistake but noone would listen and they wanted to kill him so he had to kill everyone who tried to apperhend him. His wife left him and they never saw each other again. Also at the end of the game he headed east and soon after outlanders started arriving in the jade empire missing limbs complain about him. When he returned years later he arrived in the west of the jade empire not knowing what happend (he cut a bloody path around the world). He vowed never again to leave the Jade empire becuase the wine everywhere else ws bad. The next week he got board and was last seen headed north. This is what the player is styling their character after.
alecthemad 07-28-05, 02:48 PM	You had to know that would be nothing but problems. Why o why did you allow it?
Phrennzy 07-28-05, 03:30 PM	Well the character from Jade Empire for example was once hired to keep the peace between 2 waring clan during peace talks. It was going well but some fight broke out so The black whirlwind killed a few dozen clansmen from each side to stop the fighting, he sorta jumped in the middle of their battle killing both sides till they stopped. Then the talks were going well until the 2 clan leaders could not choose who got a beutifal clans woman. They argued for days until the black whirlwind speeded the peace prosses up. He cleaved the woman in half and told each leader to talk half. They were all angery at him and he had to wipe out both clans to save himself, and then there was peace. Another example was once after doing a mission for a magistrate he was given his daughter's hand in marrage. She wasn't ugly so the black whirlwind agreed. Well he got drunk the wedding night and woke up in bed next to the magistrates wife so he left to go back to his wifes room. He found his wife in bed with another man and killed him and his wife came into the room screaming and the woman in the bed was screaming. He had killed his sisters brother in law thinking the sister was his wife. An honest mistake but noone would listen and they wanted to kill him so he had to kill everyone who tried to apperhend him. His wife left him and they never saw each other again. Also at the end of the game he headed east and soon after outlanders started arriving in the jade empire missing limbs complain about him. When he returned years later he arrived in the west of the jade empire not knowing what happend (he cut a bloody path around the world). He vowed never again to leave the Jade empire becuase the wine everywhere else ws bad. The next week he got board and was last seen headed north. This is what the player is styling their character after. Is all that from this PC, or from another game/book? Actually, it doesn't matter, because either way, all of that was lame. Amazingly bad, really. He sounds like Groo. I think it may be time to rethink this bad bad bad character concept. Sounds like "I want to be bad ass" from a 12 year old. Those clansmen must SUCK!