Advancing monsters... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advancing monsters... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Automagical
03-17-04, 09:41 AM OK, so I'm trying to create an evil baddie to challenge the players. I began advancing an ordinary Gnoll with a level in the ranger class...

I need some help to calculate the CR of a 1st-level Gnoll ranger.
The ordinary Gnoll in the MM uses the standard array (11, 11, 11, 10, 10, 10), but since this one was going to have class levels, I rolled stats like the players did (4d6, drop the lowest), and came up with scores nearly equivalent to the elite array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8). According to the section in the back of the MM, this increases the CR by 1. And since we had a CR 1 base creature, now it's CR 2. Correct?
Ranger is an associated class to a Gnoll, so I after adding a ranger level, I added 1 to the CR, again. Now, It's CR 3.

This sounds like it makes sense to me. But then I remembered that I had seen a Gnoll ranger character in the Elite Opponents (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20030823a) column, here on the WOTC site. I checked it out, and found that the Gnoll ranger presented there had 3 class levels, and a CR of 4, (and was obviously built on the elite array).
According to what I've done the 3rd-level Gnoll ranger would have a CR of 5...

I need to get the CR and stuff right. So, can anyone help?

Thanks.
the_heart
03-17-04, 10:06 AM IIRC adding a PC class pretty much assumes the Elite array.

so adding either the elite array or a PC class or both still adds up to just +1CR.
Stormweaver
03-17-04, 11:08 AM I made a gnoll PC two weeks ago so this is by heart (I have no book close)

str +4 dex - con +4 int -2 wis - cha -2
Base HD: 2d8 starting hd, 4 + int * 5 skill point: class skills are listen and spot.

CR is 2, any level of a player class you add add one to the CR
ECL is 3 plus any level.
Automagical
03-17-04, 11:14 AM Originally posted by the_heart
IIRC adding a PC class pretty much assumes the Elite array.

so adding either the elite array or a PC class or both still adds up to just +1CR.

You're probably right, but it sounds a little strange to me that it should get a class level 'for free', without adding anything to the CR, after it uses the elite array... Don't you think?

Well, I guess I'd better just re-read the section on advancing monsters in the MM.
meabolex
03-17-04, 11:22 AM I'd say that adding the elite array to a monster always increases the CR +1. With the minotaur, for example, I'd probably add +2 CR to the creature for adding a level of fighter and the corresponding elite array for a total of CR 6.

My question: What about equipment? Surely if you give an ECL 8 creature the equipment of a level 8 NPC, the CR must change somewhat. Is there any rule anywhere that helps out with this increase?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Automagical 03-17-04, 09:41 AM	OK, so I'm trying to create an evil baddie to challenge the players. I began advancing an ordinary Gnoll with a level in the ranger class... I need some help to calculate the CR of a 1st-level Gnoll ranger. The ordinary Gnoll in the MM uses the standard array (11, 11, 11, 10, 10, 10), but since this one was going to have class levels, I rolled stats like the players did (4d6, drop the lowest), and came up with scores nearly equivalent to the elite array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8). According to the section in the back of the MM, this increases the CR by 1. And since we had a CR 1 base creature, now it's CR 2. Correct? Ranger is an associated class to a Gnoll, so I after adding a ranger level, I added 1 to the CR, again. Now, It's CR 3. This sounds like it makes sense to me. But then I remembered that I had seen a Gnoll ranger character in the Elite Opponents (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20030823a) column, here on the WOTC site. I checked it out, and found that the Gnoll ranger presented there had 3 class levels, and a CR of 4, (and was obviously built on the elite array). According to what I've done the 3rd-level Gnoll ranger would have a CR of 5... I need to get the CR and stuff right. So, can anyone help? Thanks.
the_heart 03-17-04, 10:06 AM	IIRC adding a PC class pretty much assumes the Elite array. so adding either the elite array or a PC class or both still adds up to just +1CR.
Stormweaver 03-17-04, 11:08 AM	I made a gnoll PC two weeks ago so this is by heart (I have no book close) str +4 dex - con +4 int -2 wis - cha -2 Base HD: 2d8 starting hd, 4 + int * 5 skill point: class skills are listen and spot. CR is 2, any level of a player class you add add one to the CR ECL is 3 plus any level.
Automagical 03-17-04, 11:14 AM	Originally posted by the_heart IIRC adding a PC class pretty much assumes the Elite array. so adding either the elite array or a PC class or both still adds up to just +1CR. You're probably right, but it sounds a little strange to me that it should get a class level 'for free', without adding anything to the CR, after it uses the elite array... Don't you think? Well, I guess I'd better just re-read the section on advancing monsters in the MM.
meabolex 03-17-04, 11:22 AM	I'd say that adding the elite array to a monster always increases the CR +1. With the minotaur, for example, I'd probably add +2 CR to the creature for adding a level of fighter and the corresponding elite array for a total of CR 6. My question: What about equipment? Surely if you give an ECL 8 creature the equipment of a level 8 NPC, the CR must change somewhat. Is there any rule anywhere that helps out with this increase?