Advancing Monsters [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advancing Monsters [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
RedTopHat
10-25-06, 08:42 PM Hello everyone, I'm new to Dungeons and Dragons and our group has a game coming up this friday. I took on the task of DMing and now have come up with a problem. I read some of the Monster Manual but I cannot understand Advancing Monsters, I was wondering if someone could explain it to me?

Very Much Appreciated,

RedTopHat
Kaligrad
10-25-06, 09:17 PM Pretend you're advancing a character by however many hp you're adding. Like a character, the monster gets a new feat for every 3 hp, an ability point at every 4 hp, and more skill points based on their monster type. Consider them a character of whatever level their hit points sync up to. The rate their base attack bonus and save bonuses go up is also determined by their type.

But remember, though it feels like leveling up a character, their improved CR is based on the chart listed in that section.

You can also add class levels to most intelligent creatures. Just add their class features and bonuses onto whatever's there already.

Don't worry about it yet, anyway. There are plenty of low level monsters that don't need adjustment at all.
MareltEkiran
10-25-06, 09:25 PM Best thing would be to read chapter 4 of the Monster Manual (from page 290 onwards). They give you a step-by-step guide for the advancement of monsters. Granted, it can get complicated, given that there is a lot to consider.

But in a nutshell, there are two ways of advancing monsters.

The first one is the easiest... Slap character levels on them. That simply works the same way as leveling up a character. The only thing you should do before that is to modify their creature stats with character stats. So take its base scores and assign a +4, +4, +2, +2, 0, -2 to the scores, depending on which fit best with the class. So if you want to add fighter levels, add the +4 stats to Strength and Constitution.
From this point on, it's easy. Just treat it as leveling up. So if you take, say... a minotaur and you want to add fighter levels, then go through the whole procedure. You roll a d10 and add that and the CON modifier to its HP. You add +1 base attack bonus. You add one fighter feat. You increase saves, etc. And you have just created a minotaur with a fighter level, who is now 1 CR higher than your standard minotaur. Repeat as necesarry (but remember that not all classes work well with all monsters, so you may need to tweak the CR appropriately).

Now, in order for this to work, the monster must be intelligent enough and have basic humanoid functions, in order to use the items and feats that go with the classes. For a lot of monsters, this simply doesn't work... When was the last time you encountered an ooze fighter or a dire weasel wizard?

The other method is more complicated. It involves boosting the HD of the creature. Boosting HD does different things, depending on what type of creature we are talking about. The Monster Manual has lists for this in chapter 4. It more or less works like giving levels, except that monster HD don't have class abilities associated with them. However, they do get an extra feat for every 3 HD (unless INT is a non-ability, such as with some undead and golems) and an extra ability score increase for every 4 HD, just like normal characters.
Increasing HD doesn't add as much power as increasing levels, so generally, you need several HD to increase a creature's CR.

Every monster that can advance has tresholds in its HD advancement (indicated in the "advancement" section in each monster stat block). Passing such a treshold increases the creature's size, which causes a lot of changes in its own right. Chapter 4 in the Monster Manual has more information on that too.
Papapop
10-25-06, 09:35 PM Pretend you're advancing a character by however many hp you're adding. Like a character, the monster gets a new feat for every 3 hp, an ability point at every 4 hp, and more skill points based on their monster type. Consider them a character of whatever level their hit points sync up to. The rate their base attack bonus and save bonuses go up is also determined by their type.

But remember, though it feels like leveling up a character, their improved CR is based on the chart listed in that section.

You can also add class levels to most intelligent creatures. Just add their class features and bonuses onto whatever's there already.

Don't worry about it yet, anyway. There are plenty of low level monsters that don't need adjustment at all.

theres a little problem with that though. I'm part of RedTopHat's group, and im the highest level of the lot(lvl 3 Dwarf Fighter). mainly because I've been around playing D&D a bit longer then most of the people coming(most are 1st or second time coming, all lvl 1, and a couple level 2s).

so I've asked him to raise the monster level by one as to make me not totally obliterate any monster i encounter, but i will hold back some as to allow others to attack.

I don't think any of the others will have a problem with the monsters since there will be 8 or so of us,(yes i think that is a lot as well), and we would totally overpower the monsters by sheer numbers (i think)

so thats why i think we should bring up the monsters level some, mainly because of the numbers of people that will be there.

I am afraid that because we have so many of us that, nothing will get accomplished... hopefully this will not be the case and we'll have a fun time
TheWerg
10-25-06, 09:40 PM You don't need to advance a monster to get a higher CR monster... He can just use one that's CR 3 or 4 that's already made. Advancing a monster tends to be an undertaking most new DMs shy away from due to its complexity and because there are already options there.
Kaligrad
10-25-06, 09:43 PM You don't have to advance monsters, just increase the CR you encounter. Your DM could just put the party through a set of EL's that steadily increase, until you reach a CR that is a significant but beatable. Experience is based on CR, and CR increases with advanced monsters, so it makes no difference in the end. Your DM should be more worried about the CR-EL exchange rate, and he can go here (http://www.d20srd.org/encounterCalculator.htm) for some easy calculations.
RedTopHat
10-25-06, 10:02 PM Thanks for the responses, I've looked at uping the CR but I got confused. I tried using the calculator, but right now adavancing the creatures seems easier.
concerro
10-26-06, 06:21 PM Hello everyone, I'm new to Dungeons and Dragons and our group has a game coming up this friday. I took on the task of DMing and now have come up with a problem. I read some of the Monster Manual but I cannot understand Advancing Monsters, I was wondering if someone could explain it to me?

Very Much Appreciated,

RedTopHat

You are going to need the chapter in the back of the monster manual and the last section that detail every type of monster to up the CR.
As far as feats they get a new feat every 3 HD if the advance by HD and if they have intelligence. and a stat increase every 4 HD. There is also a recomended upgrade in Con, Dex, Str, Natural Armor..etc depending on the size of the monster. You could also give the monster class levels if you dont want to go by HD just make sure it is realistic. The best way for me to explain is for you to give me an example of a monster that you want advanced and I will do it for you and explain how I got the stats I got.
RedTopHat
10-26-06, 10:21 PM How about advancing a level 1 Kobold?
TheWerg
10-26-06, 10:25 PM Level it up with levels in fighter or any other PC class you want. It's pretty simple. You can take away its warrior level and make it, say, a level 3 Ranger instead.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RedTopHat 10-25-06, 08:42 PM	Hello everyone, I'm new to Dungeons and Dragons and our group has a game coming up this friday. I took on the task of DMing and now have come up with a problem. I read some of the Monster Manual but I cannot understand Advancing Monsters, I was wondering if someone could explain it to me? Very Much Appreciated, RedTopHat
Kaligrad 10-25-06, 09:17 PM	Pretend you're advancing a character by however many hp you're adding. Like a character, the monster gets a new feat for every 3 hp, an ability point at every 4 hp, and more skill points based on their monster type. Consider them a character of whatever level their hit points sync up to. The rate their base attack bonus and save bonuses go up is also determined by their type. But remember, though it feels like leveling up a character, their improved CR is based on the chart listed in that section. You can also add class levels to most intelligent creatures. Just add their class features and bonuses onto whatever's there already. Don't worry about it yet, anyway. There are plenty of low level monsters that don't need adjustment at all.
MareltEkiran 10-25-06, 09:25 PM	Best thing would be to read chapter 4 of the Monster Manual (from page 290 onwards). They give you a step-by-step guide for the advancement of monsters. Granted, it can get complicated, given that there is a lot to consider. But in a nutshell, there are two ways of advancing monsters. The first one is the easiest... Slap character levels on them. That simply works the same way as leveling up a character. The only thing you should do before that is to modify their creature stats with character stats. So take its base scores and assign a +4, +4, +2, +2, 0, -2 to the scores, depending on which fit best with the class. So if you want to add fighter levels, add the +4 stats to Strength and Constitution. From this point on, it's easy. Just treat it as leveling up. So if you take, say... a minotaur and you want to add fighter levels, then go through the whole procedure. You roll a d10 and add that and the CON modifier to its HP. You add +1 base attack bonus. You add one fighter feat. You increase saves, etc. And you have just created a minotaur with a fighter level, who is now 1 CR higher than your standard minotaur. Repeat as necesarry (but remember that not all classes work well with all monsters, so you may need to tweak the CR appropriately). Now, in order for this to work, the monster must be intelligent enough and have basic humanoid functions, in order to use the items and feats that go with the classes. For a lot of monsters, this simply doesn't work... When was the last time you encountered an ooze fighter or a dire weasel wizard? The other method is more complicated. It involves boosting the HD of the creature. Boosting HD does different things, depending on what type of creature we are talking about. The Monster Manual has lists for this in chapter 4. It more or less works like giving levels, except that monster HD don't have class abilities associated with them. However, they do get an extra feat for every 3 HD (unless INT is a non-ability, such as with some undead and golems) and an extra ability score increase for every 4 HD, just like normal characters. Increasing HD doesn't add as much power as increasing levels, so generally, you need several HD to increase a creature's CR. Every monster that can advance has tresholds in its HD advancement (indicated in the "advancement" section in each monster stat block). Passing such a treshold increases the creature's size, which causes a lot of changes in its own right. Chapter 4 in the Monster Manual has more information on that too.
Papapop 10-25-06, 09:35 PM	Pretend you're advancing a character by however many hp you're adding. Like a character, the monster gets a new feat for every 3 hp, an ability point at every 4 hp, and more skill points based on their monster type. Consider them a character of whatever level their hit points sync up to. The rate their base attack bonus and save bonuses go up is also determined by their type. But remember, though it feels like leveling up a character, their improved CR is based on the chart listed in that section. You can also add class levels to most intelligent creatures. Just add their class features and bonuses onto whatever's there already. Don't worry about it yet, anyway. There are plenty of low level monsters that don't need adjustment at all. theres a little problem with that though. I'm part of RedTopHat's group, and im the highest level of the lot(lvl 3 Dwarf Fighter). mainly because I've been around playing D&D a bit longer then most of the people coming(most are 1st or second time coming, all lvl 1, and a couple level 2s). so I've asked him to raise the monster level by one as to make me not totally obliterate any monster i encounter, but i will hold back some as to allow others to attack. I don't think any of the others will have a problem with the monsters since there will be 8 or so of us,(yes i think that is a lot as well), and we would totally overpower the monsters by sheer numbers (i think) so thats why i think we should bring up the monsters level some, mainly because of the numbers of people that will be there. I am afraid that because we have so many of us that, nothing will get accomplished... hopefully this will not be the case and we'll have a fun time
TheWerg 10-25-06, 09:40 PM	You don't need to advance a monster to get a higher CR monster... He can just use one that's CR 3 or 4 that's already made. Advancing a monster tends to be an undertaking most new DMs shy away from due to its complexity and because there are already options there.
Kaligrad 10-25-06, 09:43 PM	You don't have to advance monsters, just increase the CR you encounter. Your DM could just put the party through a set of EL's that steadily increase, until you reach a CR that is a significant but beatable. Experience is based on CR, and CR increases with advanced monsters, so it makes no difference in the end. Your DM should be more worried about the CR-EL exchange rate, and he can go here (http://www.d20srd.org/encounterCalculator.htm) for some easy calculations.
RedTopHat 10-25-06, 10:02 PM	Thanks for the responses, I've looked at uping the CR but I got confused. I tried using the calculator, but right now adavancing the creatures seems easier.
concerro 10-26-06, 06:21 PM	Hello everyone, I'm new to Dungeons and Dragons and our group has a game coming up this friday. I took on the task of DMing and now have come up with a problem. I read some of the Monster Manual but I cannot understand Advancing Monsters, I was wondering if someone could explain it to me? Very Much Appreciated, RedTopHat You are going to need the chapter in the back of the monster manual and the last section that detail every type of monster to up the CR. As far as feats they get a new feat every 3 HD if the advance by HD and if they have intelligence. and a stat increase every 4 HD. There is also a recomended upgrade in Con, Dex, Str, Natural Armor..etc depending on the size of the monster. You could also give the monster class levels if you dont want to go by HD just make sure it is realistic. The best way for me to explain is for you to give me an example of a monster that you want advanced and I will do it for you and explain how I got the stats I got.
RedTopHat 10-26-06, 10:21 PM	How about advancing a level 1 Kobold?
TheWerg 10-26-06, 10:25 PM	Level it up with levels in fighter or any other PC class you want. It's pretty simple. You can take away its warrior level and make it, say, a level 3 Ranger instead.