Adventure Hooks..HOW? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Adventure Hooks..HOW? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sucineri
03-23-04, 07:30 PM Main problem I have really is HOW to I go about using an adventure hook, or more than one hook? I haven't seen a group yet that skipped the first hook thrown down. Like I am gonna restart the Sunless Citadel mod and have my 2 players make new characters..and gonna enforce a strong "You better not metagame this time or I keel you" rule. Maybe I will end up just letting them complete Sunless as they have been already..but can you use the adventure hooks supplied by the Sunless Citadel mod in saying exactly how you go about throwing a hook without it sounding like you are telling them "There is a temple thing with evil, that's where you should go"? I also think I am gonna have this mod go directly into the City of the Spider Queen FR mod since there is an underdark enterance in the citadel..and they are gonna be at the minimum level.
Autosponge
03-23-04, 08:04 PM Hooks are an artform. They can be subtle, or not. If you drop your hooks one at a time, with a little space between them, and don't drop them subtley, then yes--your party will always take the first one... there's nothing else to do.

If however, you learn to mix several hooks in simultaneously making some almost obscure you will find that your PCs turn into sleuths and try to figure out where to go next and where each hook will lead them.

For an example of what I call "hook weaving" check out my thread about some silverymoon NPCs.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2569699#post2569699

and this thread with some newspaper-style 'what's new' information about the city and the surrounding area here:

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=182353
Sucineri
03-23-04, 08:19 PM I really like that newspaper idea..now I might have to go buy a tackboard or something to tack little articles to..I don't understand what that first link had to do with hooks though..
Zeitgeistgeist
03-23-04, 08:56 PM Let em run around doing nothing...

...then, just when they become bored out of their skull...

...slam em with the adventure hook!
Autosponge
03-23-04, 09:01 PM Every NPC in that thread has notes for the DM and possible uses. These are all hook material. There are just a handful of subplots going on but there are multiple entry points for the PCs.

For instance, the thayan mystery drug plot uses Maranarradas, Tarasura, the Thayan (not listed yet), and just about anyone else you want to have buying the drug. The PCs could meet Tara with a package for someone. They could be in someone's house when it's delivered. They could see it stashed away in someone's house. They could run into an argument with Maran and the Thayan. Tara could be arrested or attacked by the thieves' guild and leave the package behind (or worse, give it to a PC to keep). The PCs could be city watch assigned to arrest Tara.

Basically you have a plot--think of it as a stream. Some streams are fast and furious, others just meander along slowly. Instead of PCs fishing in the stream, the NPCs fish from inside the stream out, and try to pull the PCs in.

In that one example, there are numerous NPCs who can hook the players into this plot: Tara, a member of the thieves' guild, a city watchman, the watch commander, Maran, the Thayan, or a close aquaintence of the PCs that bought the drug. Once they are pulled in, they are part of the plot. What they do from then on can change how the plot plays out. They're hooked.

So one hook example: "A surly young girl is knocked off her barstool by a drunk patron, the contents of her pack spill onto the floor." [spot checks] "You spot a strange package of what looks like pipeweed that she grabs for first and looks about nervously before putting in her jacket pocket instead of the bag."

Now if the PCs don't do anything, they'll log this information in the back of thier minds for later when this happens:

"As a city watchman enters, he steers his focus directly on the young girl. She calmly moves her hand from her jacket pocket to her small pack then places the pack at her feet and looks up at the bartender. The watchmen summons two more of his cohorts who quickly move in to subdue the girl and remove her from the bar." [spot checks] "Her pack is still under the barstool."

If the PCs just leave it there, this happens.

"A tall, freckled man darts into the bar." Maran is frantic that Tara has been arrested. He knows from the questions they are asking her that she didn't have the drugs on her, he also knows by asking his customer that it wasn't delivered. "He moves from patron to patron asking if they saw Tara tonight." He will eventually come to the PC's table. If they tell him about the pack, he flips them a gold coin and smiles, scoops up the pack and leaves.

If they did pick up the pack and kept it, the same thing as above happens except Maran will hear from another patron that the PCs have what he's looking for. He will now look for the PCs. If they didn't leave the tavern yet, Maran uses slight of hand to hold an unseen dagger against one of the PCs while pretending to be a friend at their table. He warns them that he's a very dangerous man, and they have his possessions.

It's possible that the PCs impress Maran with a bluff or intimidation roll in which case he tries to recruit them into delivering the drugs--he promises that they will be able to collect money for them at the time of deliver (after all, he lost his last delivery girl). If they go along with this, the thieves' guild wants to convince them they made a bad decision--any way they can.

**(sorry I'm just writing this off the top of my head, so if something seems out of whack, let me know)**

If Tara is released by the city watch, she will return for her package, knowing that if she doesn't recover it Maran will be very angry. She can always find the PCs before Maran does because she knows the city so well and has seen the PCs. This allows the PCs to make some decisions about how they will deal with Tara. She could be a valuable ally if they help her out. She could also bring trouble to them if they help her too much. If they turn her in again with the drugs, Maran will know about it and will extract his losses from the PCs hides (or try to). He'll also have to figure out how to tell the thayan that their cover is blown.

If the PCs missed all of the above, they stuble across the argument between the Thayan and Maran. Maran is most likely killed in this exchange and the Thayan will see the PCs as either potential allies to distribute his drug where Maran failed, or enemies who will turn him in for this murder. The more they listen to the argument, the more information they get before the Thayan strikes.

/end explanation

So, as you can see, I just know my NPCs really well. I can make up hooks and plots on the spur of the moment. This was a lot faster than it ever happens in a game, so I know I can stay a step ahead of the PCs.

It takes a little practice, but it's not hard.
Autosponge
03-23-04, 09:08 PM BTW, if they kill the Thayan (they shouldn't be able to before he teleports away) or engage him near Silverymoon, they may be tempted to visit his enclave which is set up in a small trading town on the road to Nesme (how they know where the enclave is is up to you, there are several ways to know it and if all else fails a knowledge (local) always works). If they do, and they aren't disguised or invisible, the Thayan will be alerted to their presense, and be ready for them. Adjust the encounters as usual. Although the Thayan is acting on his own, his superiors will be furious with the PCs if they destroy the enclave. This makes them an enemy of the Red Wizards for life.
Sucineri
03-23-04, 09:18 PM Jeez..I guess that would be a pretty nice way to do it in a custom game..but what about with Sunless Citadel? There are like 4 hooks there, but I don't know really how to give them out without throwing up a neon pink sign that says "GO THIS WAY!".
Autosponge
03-23-04, 09:25 PM Hooks don't have to be right. You can have them trying to get to one place and they end up at Sunless Citadel. I did this once and the PCs were at first confused but loved it. Their friend in Silverymoon's map room had switched their map with someone else's. Soon after they arrived, there was another party there and they were ticked off that someone was trying to 'claim jump' on their abandoned ruins :)
Autosponge
03-23-04, 09:41 PM I'm not sure what you mean by a custom game. Aren't all games custom?

If you mean I'm not using a premade module or something you're wrong. In that above example, I'd have an encounter with the PCs after they leave the city looking for the enclave that leads them to the sunless citadel. Maybe a goblin crew steals their stuff when they camp, or they watch as some goblins run from raiding the nearby town's orchards. Maybe they're attacked by goblins and some flee when things go badly.

You're really making this harder than it is. Those hooks are just suggestions, you don't HAVE to use them to make the adventure work.
Autosponge
03-23-04, 09:42 PM BTW, if the PCs don't take the hooks (and therefore you arent' going to get to use sunless citadel) just shelf it for later. You'll figure out a way to worm it into the game. The players won't be the wiser either.
DrMorganes
03-24-04, 01:19 AM Jeez..I guess that would be a pretty nice way to do it in a custom game..but what about with Sunless Citadel? There are like 4 hooks there, but I don't know really how to give them out without throwing up a neon pink sign that says "GO THIS WAY!".

As Autosponge mentions, ALL games are custom games. You may integrate a module into your game at some point - or start your game with one - but at some point things will take off in a direction not covered by existing material. This can be scary, but it's really the point of the entire exercise: you and your players telling the stories of their characters. (And hopefully having fun in the process ;))

Your first step is to generate some hook material before you ever even hit the gaming table. How? Two words: character histories. These don't have to be hundred-page autobiographies detailing the past 15-18 years of a character's life. Stick to answering the questions at the end of the character generation section in the Player's Handbook for starters.

Once that's done, create a base of operation for your players' first adventure. If one is provided in The Sunless Citadel, great - use it! If not, don't panic. Essentially all you need at this point is a name on a map, a point of reference for your PCs to call "home base".

Next, have your players decide why/how their characters have come to this place. One or two sentences is quite sufficient: Perhaps they've lived here all their lives. Maybe they're running an errand for a superior of some sort, or are following the trail of a hated enemy. You can use the PC's race and class for some inspiration if necessary.

Then you take all of this information and hide it for a while. Let it spin around in your head as you read the text of your prepared module. Is the a logical place to incorporate something from a character's background or goals? If so, drop it in and see what happens.

Sound like a lot? Perhaps. I'll post an example in a little bit.
Sucineri
03-24-04, 07:00 AM But the problem is..if I point to the map on the back of FRCS in some place and ask "Where are YOU from, and why are you here NOW?" they say "Oh, I'm not going there, or one goes there and the other wants to go somewhere else..it is hard for me to let the players choose where to start because I will have to run 2 or 5 different adventures at the same time instead of keeping them roughly together.

Oh, and today I lost another character tonight in a game I was playing in with my normal group..this time to permanent insanity.

I have really bad luck.
Temmogen
03-24-04, 09:43 AM Originally posted by Sucineri
but I don't know really how to give them out without throwing up a neon pink sign that says "GO THIS WAY!".

In the game I'm running right now, the PC's just came back to town to heal up and get some mummy rot removed. During the R&R they decided they didnt want to go back to the tombs,and asked what else was happening in the region, I had 3 major plots going and threw 3 different job offers thier way. Of course if dont have 3 adventures prepared, use the 4 hooks and try to word it as job offers or pleas for help. I you differentiate enough between them, they all sound different but all lead to the same adventure. 2 of the hooks I offered would have led to the same adventure, with just the manner in which the PCs become involved the only thing different. Hope that helps a little.:behold:
zodiki
03-24-04, 10:29 AM Originally posted by Sucineri
But the problem is..if I point to the map on the back of FRCS in some place and ask "Where are YOU from, and why are you here NOW?" they say "Oh, I'm not going there, or one goes there and the other wants to go somewhere else..it is hard for me to let the players choose where to start because I will have to run 2 or 5 different adventures at the same time instead of keeping them roughly together.
...

If the players are from all over, there has to be a reason they are together as a party. Either the DM or the players have to decide that reason. Since it's my campaign, I usually decide. In this case, they all could be members of an Adventurer's or Mercenary's Guild. Some players might think that their characters wouldn't be a part of that. I tell them, they need to figure out why they are. Everybody has found themselves in situations they wouldn't have chosen if they'd had more control.

As for hooks, if it's the beginning of the campaign or module-style, one hook is all you need - it's the premise that begins the game. The players have to understand this is the beginning of the story and they need to play their parts to get it going.

When I do an immersive campaign (the most satisfying IMO), the best way to manage hooks is to know your NPCs and their relationships really well (as was mentioned by Autosponge above). That way you can keep it flowing on the fly if the PCs don't do what you think they will (usually they don't).

No matter what the style, the players have to agree (usually meta-game) to keep the party together as much as possible. It's the conceit that makes D&D (and most other RPGs) work smoothly.
committed hero
03-24-04, 11:03 AM Make the players do the work! At the very minimum they want to play. Even if you simply fess up and say "I can't think of a good reason you are a party," most groups will appreciate the honesty and contribute their fair share.

Then have them make a list of five things about their characters that can be fair game for the DM to mess with: family, friends, heirlooms, history. Or give them a list of questions that flesh out their backgrounds and motivations. This helps players understand their characters better and should lead to compelling story hooks.

Then make the group brainstorm to decide what it is that keeps them together. Note just about any plausible reason and use it to haunt them later.
Lord_Soto
03-24-04, 12:52 PM Originally posted by Sucineri
But the problem is..if I point to the map on the back of FRCS in some place and ask "Where are YOU from, and why are you here NOW?" they say "Oh, I'm not going there, or one goes there and the other wants to go somewhere else..it is hard for me to let the players choose where to start because I will have to run 2 or 5 different adventures at the same time instead of keeping them roughly together.

Here's the trick... as part of character creation in my campaigns I require more than just where are you from. For example:

1. Where are you from?
2. Why are you spending the night in the Running Stag Inn in Berdusk on the fifth night of Ches?
3. How do you plan to fit in with the other characters, regardless of race/class/alignment?

The first question is a given... it sets the feel for the character and lets the player dictate where he is from.

The second question establishes a starting point for the campaign, regardless of where the player wants to be from originally.

The third question gets the player thinking that he is going to have to fit into a party, and prevents me from ending up with a handful of players all going different directions. Some examples of recent answers:

Player 1: 1/2 elven Bard/Priest of Deneir
1. From Evereska
2. Working as entertainer at the Ruby Shaw, studying at the temple of Deneir in Berdusk.
3. Planning to write next great epic tale, needs to meet up with adventurers who will let him document their journeys.

Player 2: Human Priest of Torm
1. From Tantras
2. Seeking to help re-establish the House of the Hungry Merchant.
3. Plan to provide help to any who need it in exchange for help with mission in item 2.

Player 3: Half-Elf Ranger
1. From Barbarian lands just south of Spine of the World
2. Travelling south to Cormyr, investigating rumors of Werewolf pack.
3. Willing to work as guide to raise money for caravan and "wolf-hunting" supplies.
Sucineri
03-24-04, 01:09 PM That might work with 2 of the 3 players I have that should be playing..one of them doesn't know dikk about anything dealing with the game so the first and second question wouldn't make any sense to him..but if he were a bard I could understand your bard's third answer.
Roxlimn
03-24-04, 03:29 PM The way I see it, your problem seems to be that your hooks are too "obvious". You have to realize that this is not a design flaw. Some people like just being told exactly where to go and when. Make sure that your players aren't these sorts of people before you go about fixing something that isn't broke.

Having said that your main problem seems to be that you don't like dropping hooks one at a time and having your players respond to them one at a time. The problem you have here is versimilitude, and I can understand that. I used to have that kind of problem myself. Here are some things to help:

1) Multiple hooks. Your players living like robots on a track? Mess 'em up a little. Drop 3-5 hooks all at once. The fun things about these hooks is that they don't all need to be genuine or follow-uppable hooks, but that only a few of them are. Even more fun is the social aspect hooks. Since your players aren't likely to be killed by a social encounter, you can place individually designed hooks for each character as you see fit.

Sound like too much work? Nonsense. Not all events in daily life is a complicated knot of events, so it shouldn't be so for your PCs either. You can design a one-shot one roll social encounter as a resolution to a hook. The thing that makes this a "separate adventure" is that it requires PC follow up and it needn't be related to the adventure. You can design side treks or "break adventures" as simple or complex as you want. Four to 5 or 8 to 10 encounters strings are equally viable. Prepare a couple of simple ones to start off and fire away. You can always recycle encounter strings onto new hooks once the old ones become obsolete.

The excellent thing about this is the incredible sense of versimilitude it gives your world. Players literally feel like they can do anything and go anywhere. The downside is that it takes a little preparation to do this unless you're incredibly good at extemporaneous DMing.

2) No hooks. Your PCs not particularly inquisitive? Well, nothing happens to the passive. If your PCs are like this, you can have large stretches of time pass with nothing adventure-worthy happening. Like years or decades. Eventually, they're bound to go around looking for something interesting. Of course, this doesn't seem like it's going to be that useful to your group.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sucineri 03-23-04, 07:30 PM	Main problem I have really is HOW to I go about using an adventure hook, or more than one hook? I haven't seen a group yet that skipped the first hook thrown down. Like I am gonna restart the Sunless Citadel mod and have my 2 players make new characters..and gonna enforce a strong "You better not metagame this time or I keel you" rule. Maybe I will end up just letting them complete Sunless as they have been already..but can you use the adventure hooks supplied by the Sunless Citadel mod in saying exactly how you go about throwing a hook without it sounding like you are telling them "There is a temple thing with evil, that's where you should go"? I also think I am gonna have this mod go directly into the City of the Spider Queen FR mod since there is an underdark enterance in the citadel..and they are gonna be at the minimum level.
Autosponge 03-23-04, 08:04 PM	Hooks are an artform. They can be subtle, or not. If you drop your hooks one at a time, with a little space between them, and don't drop them subtley, then yes--your party will always take the first one... there's nothing else to do. If however, you learn to mix several hooks in simultaneously making some almost obscure you will find that your PCs turn into sleuths and try to figure out where to go next and where each hook will lead them. For an example of what I call "hook weaving" check out my thread about some silverymoon NPCs. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2569699#post2569699 and this thread with some newspaper-style 'what's new' information about the city and the surrounding area here: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=182353
Sucineri 03-23-04, 08:19 PM	I really like that newspaper idea..now I might have to go buy a tackboard or something to tack little articles to..I don't understand what that first link had to do with hooks though..
Zeitgeistgeist 03-23-04, 08:56 PM	Let em run around doing nothing... ...then, just when they become bored out of their skull... ...slam em with the adventure hook!
Autosponge 03-23-04, 09:01 PM	Every NPC in that thread has notes for the DM and possible uses. These are all hook material. There are just a handful of subplots going on but there are multiple entry points for the PCs. For instance, the thayan mystery drug plot uses Maranarradas, Tarasura, the Thayan (not listed yet), and just about anyone else you want to have buying the drug. The PCs could meet Tara with a package for someone. They could be in someone's house when it's delivered. They could see it stashed away in someone's house. They could run into an argument with Maran and the Thayan. Tara could be arrested or attacked by the thieves' guild and leave the package behind (or worse, give it to a PC to keep). The PCs could be city watch assigned to arrest Tara. Basically you have a plot--think of it as a stream. Some streams are fast and furious, others just meander along slowly. Instead of PCs fishing in the stream, the NPCs fish from inside the stream out, and try to pull the PCs in. In that one example, there are numerous NPCs who can hook the players into this plot: Tara, a member of the thieves' guild, a city watchman, the watch commander, Maran, the Thayan, or a close aquaintence of the PCs that bought the drug. Once they are pulled in, they are part of the plot. What they do from then on can change how the plot plays out. They're hooked. So one hook example: "A surly young girl is knocked off her barstool by a drunk patron, the contents of her pack spill onto the floor." [spot checks] "You spot a strange package of what looks like pipeweed that she grabs for first and looks about nervously before putting in her jacket pocket instead of the bag." Now if the PCs don't do anything, they'll log this information in the back of thier minds for later when this happens: "As a city watchman enters, he steers his focus directly on the young girl. She calmly moves her hand from her jacket pocket to her small pack then places the pack at her feet and looks up at the bartender. The watchmen summons two more of his cohorts who quickly move in to subdue the girl and remove her from the bar." [spot checks] "Her pack is still under the barstool." If the PCs just leave it there, this happens. "A tall, freckled man darts into the bar." Maran is frantic that Tara has been arrested. He knows from the questions they are asking her that she didn't have the drugs on her, he also knows by asking his customer that it wasn't delivered. "He moves from patron to patron asking if they saw Tara tonight." He will eventually come to the PC's table. If they tell him about the pack, he flips them a gold coin and smiles, scoops up the pack and leaves. If they did pick up the pack and kept it, the same thing as above happens except Maran will hear from another patron that the PCs have what he's looking for. He will now look for the PCs. If they didn't leave the tavern yet, Maran uses slight of hand to hold an unseen dagger against one of the PCs while pretending to be a friend at their table. He warns them that he's a very dangerous man, and they have his possessions. It's possible that the PCs impress Maran with a bluff or intimidation roll in which case he tries to recruit them into delivering the drugs--he promises that they will be able to collect money for them at the time of deliver (after all, he lost his last delivery girl). If they go along with this, the thieves' guild wants to convince them they made a bad decision--any way they can. (sorry I'm just writing this off the top of my head, so if something seems out of whack, let me know) If Tara is released by the city watch, she will return for her package, knowing that if she doesn't recover it Maran will be very angry. She can always find the PCs before Maran does because she knows the city so well and has seen the PCs. This allows the PCs to make some decisions about how they will deal with Tara. She could be a valuable ally if they help her out. She could also bring trouble to them if they help her too much. If they turn her in again with the drugs, Maran will know about it and will extract his losses from the PCs hides (or try to). He'll also have to figure out how to tell the thayan that their cover is blown. If the PCs missed all of the above, they stuble across the argument between the Thayan and Maran. Maran is most likely killed in this exchange and the Thayan will see the PCs as either potential allies to distribute his drug where Maran failed, or enemies who will turn him in for this murder. The more they listen to the argument, the more information they get before the Thayan strikes. /end explanation So, as you can see, I just know my NPCs really well. I can make up hooks and plots on the spur of the moment. This was a lot faster than it ever happens in a game, so I know I can stay a step ahead of the PCs. It takes a little practice, but it's not hard.
Autosponge 03-23-04, 09:08 PM	BTW, if they kill the Thayan (they shouldn't be able to before he teleports away) or engage him near Silverymoon, they may be tempted to visit his enclave which is set up in a small trading town on the road to Nesme (how they know where the enclave is is up to you, there are several ways to know it and if all else fails a knowledge (local) always works). If they do, and they aren't disguised or invisible, the Thayan will be alerted to their presense, and be ready for them. Adjust the encounters as usual. Although the Thayan is acting on his own, his superiors will be furious with the PCs if they destroy the enclave. This makes them an enemy of the Red Wizards for life.
Sucineri 03-23-04, 09:18 PM	Jeez..I guess that would be a pretty nice way to do it in a custom game..but what about with Sunless Citadel? There are like 4 hooks there, but I don't know really how to give them out without throwing up a neon pink sign that says "GO THIS WAY!".
Autosponge 03-23-04, 09:25 PM	Hooks don't have to be right. You can have them trying to get to one place and they end up at Sunless Citadel. I did this once and the PCs were at first confused but loved it. Their friend in Silverymoon's map room had switched their map with someone else's. Soon after they arrived, there was another party there and they were ticked off that someone was trying to 'claim jump' on their abandoned ruins :)
Autosponge 03-23-04, 09:41 PM	I'm not sure what you mean by a custom game. Aren't all games custom? If you mean I'm not using a premade module or something you're wrong. In that above example, I'd have an encounter with the PCs after they leave the city looking for the enclave that leads them to the sunless citadel. Maybe a goblin crew steals their stuff when they camp, or they watch as some goblins run from raiding the nearby town's orchards. Maybe they're attacked by goblins and some flee when things go badly. You're really making this harder than it is. Those hooks are just suggestions, you don't HAVE to use them to make the adventure work.
Autosponge 03-23-04, 09:42 PM	BTW, if the PCs don't take the hooks (and therefore you arent' going to get to use sunless citadel) just shelf it for later. You'll figure out a way to worm it into the game. The players won't be the wiser either.
DrMorganes 03-24-04, 01:19 AM	Jeez..I guess that would be a pretty nice way to do it in a custom game..but what about with Sunless Citadel? There are like 4 hooks there, but I don't know really how to give them out without throwing up a neon pink sign that says "GO THIS WAY!". As Autosponge mentions, ALL games are custom games. You may integrate a module into your game at some point - or start your game with one - but at some point things will take off in a direction not covered by existing material. This can be scary, but it's really the point of the entire exercise: you and your players telling the stories of their characters. (And hopefully having fun in the process ;)) Your first step is to generate some hook material before you ever even hit the gaming table. How? Two words: character histories. These don't have to be hundred-page autobiographies detailing the past 15-18 years of a character's life. Stick to answering the questions at the end of the character generation section in the Player's Handbook for starters. Once that's done, create a base of operation for your players' first adventure. If one is provided in The Sunless Citadel, great - use it! If not, don't panic. Essentially all you need at this point is a name on a map, a point of reference for your PCs to call "home base". Next, have your players decide why/how their characters have come to this place. One or two sentences is quite sufficient: Perhaps they've lived here all their lives. Maybe they're running an errand for a superior of some sort, or are following the trail of a hated enemy. You can use the PC's race and class for some inspiration if necessary. Then you take all of this information and hide it for a while. Let it spin around in your head as you read the text of your prepared module. Is the a logical place to incorporate something from a character's background or goals? If so, drop it in and see what happens. Sound like a lot? Perhaps. I'll post an example in a little bit.
Sucineri 03-24-04, 07:00 AM	But the problem is..if I point to the map on the back of FRCS in some place and ask "Where are YOU from, and why are you here NOW?" they say "Oh, I'm not going there, or one goes there and the other wants to go somewhere else..it is hard for me to let the players choose where to start because I will have to run 2 or 5 different adventures at the same time instead of keeping them roughly together. Oh, and today I lost another character tonight in a game I was playing in with my normal group..this time to permanent insanity. I have really bad luck.
Temmogen 03-24-04, 09:43 AM	Originally posted by Sucineri but I don't know really how to give them out without throwing up a neon pink sign that says "GO THIS WAY!". In the game I'm running right now, the PC's just came back to town to heal up and get some mummy rot removed. During the R&R they decided they didnt want to go back to the tombs,and asked what else was happening in the region, I had 3 major plots going and threw 3 different job offers thier way. Of course if dont have 3 adventures prepared, use the 4 hooks and try to word it as job offers or pleas for help. I you differentiate enough between them, they all sound different but all lead to the same adventure. 2 of the hooks I offered would have led to the same adventure, with just the manner in which the PCs become involved the only thing different. Hope that helps a little.:behold:
zodiki 03-24-04, 10:29 AM	Originally posted by Sucineri But the problem is..if I point to the map on the back of FRCS in some place and ask "Where are YOU from, and why are you here NOW?" they say "Oh, I'm not going there, or one goes there and the other wants to go somewhere else..it is hard for me to let the players choose where to start because I will have to run 2 or 5 different adventures at the same time instead of keeping them roughly together. ... If the players are from all over, there has to be a reason they are together as a party. Either the DM or the players have to decide that reason. Since it's my campaign, I usually decide. In this case, they all could be members of an Adventurer's or Mercenary's Guild. Some players might think that their characters wouldn't be a part of that. I tell them, they need to figure out why they are. Everybody has found themselves in situations they wouldn't have chosen if they'd had more control. As for hooks, if it's the beginning of the campaign or module-style, one hook is all you need - it's the premise that begins the game. The players have to understand this is the beginning of the story and they need to play their parts to get it going. When I do an immersive campaign (the most satisfying IMO), the best way to manage hooks is to know your NPCs and their relationships really well (as was mentioned by Autosponge above). That way you can keep it flowing on the fly if the PCs don't do what you think they will (usually they don't). No matter what the style, the players have to agree (usually meta-game) to keep the party together as much as possible. It's the conceit that makes D&D (and most other RPGs) work smoothly.
committed hero 03-24-04, 11:03 AM	Make the players do the work! At the very minimum they want to play. Even if you simply fess up and say "I can't think of a good reason you are a party," most groups will appreciate the honesty and contribute their fair share. Then have them make a list of five things about their characters that can be fair game for the DM to mess with: family, friends, heirlooms, history. Or give them a list of questions that flesh out their backgrounds and motivations. This helps players understand their characters better and should lead to compelling story hooks. Then make the group brainstorm to decide what it is that keeps them together. Note just about any plausible reason and use it to haunt them later.
Lord_Soto 03-24-04, 12:52 PM	Originally posted by Sucineri But the problem is..if I point to the map on the back of FRCS in some place and ask "Where are YOU from, and why are you here NOW?" they say "Oh, I'm not going there, or one goes there and the other wants to go somewhere else..it is hard for me to let the players choose where to start because I will have to run 2 or 5 different adventures at the same time instead of keeping them roughly together. Here's the trick... as part of character creation in my campaigns I require more than just where are you from. For example: 1. Where are you from? 2. Why are you spending the night in the Running Stag Inn in Berdusk on the fifth night of Ches? 3. How do you plan to fit in with the other characters, regardless of race/class/alignment? The first question is a given... it sets the feel for the character and lets the player dictate where he is from. The second question establishes a starting point for the campaign, regardless of where the player wants to be from originally. The third question gets the player thinking that he is going to have to fit into a party, and prevents me from ending up with a handful of players all going different directions. Some examples of recent answers: Player 1: 1/2 elven Bard/Priest of Deneir 1. From Evereska 2. Working as entertainer at the Ruby Shaw, studying at the temple of Deneir in Berdusk. 3. Planning to write next great epic tale, needs to meet up with adventurers who will let him document their journeys. Player 2: Human Priest of Torm 1. From Tantras 2. Seeking to help re-establish the House of the Hungry Merchant. 3. Plan to provide help to any who need it in exchange for help with mission in item 2. Player 3: Half-Elf Ranger 1. From Barbarian lands just south of Spine of the World 2. Travelling south to Cormyr, investigating rumors of Werewolf pack. 3. Willing to work as guide to raise money for caravan and "wolf-hunting" supplies.
Sucineri 03-24-04, 01:09 PM	That might work with 2 of the 3 players I have that should be playing..one of them doesn't know dikk about anything dealing with the game so the first and second question wouldn't make any sense to him..but if he were a bard I could understand your bard's third answer.
Roxlimn 03-24-04, 03:29 PM	The way I see it, your problem seems to be that your hooks are too "obvious". You have to realize that this is not a design flaw. Some people like just being told exactly where to go and when. Make sure that your players aren't these sorts of people before you go about fixing something that isn't broke. Having said that your main problem seems to be that you don't like dropping hooks one at a time and having your players respond to them one at a time. The problem you have here is versimilitude, and I can understand that. I used to have that kind of problem myself. Here are some things to help: 1) Multiple hooks. Your players living like robots on a track? Mess 'em up a little. Drop 3-5 hooks all at once. The fun things about these hooks is that they don't all need to be genuine or follow-uppable hooks, but that only a few of them are. Even more fun is the social aspect hooks. Since your players aren't likely to be killed by a social encounter, you can place individually designed hooks for each character as you see fit. Sound like too much work? Nonsense. Not all events in daily life is a complicated knot of events, so it shouldn't be so for your PCs either. You can design a one-shot one roll social encounter as a resolution to a hook. The thing that makes this a "separate adventure" is that it requires PC follow up and it needn't be related to the adventure. You can design side treks or "break adventures" as simple or complex as you want. Four to 5 or 8 to 10 encounters strings are equally viable. Prepare a couple of simple ones to start off and fire away. You can always recycle encounter strings onto new hooks once the old ones become obsolete. The excellent thing about this is the incredible sense of versimilitude it gives your world. Players literally feel like they can do anything and go anywhere. The downside is that it takes a little preparation to do this unless you're incredibly good at extemporaneous DMing. 2) No hooks. Your PCs not particularly inquisitive? Well, nothing happens to the passive. If your PCs are like this, you can have large stretches of time pass with nothing adventure-worthy happening. Like years or decades. Eventually, they're bound to go around looking for something interesting. Of course, this doesn't seem like it's going to be that useful to your group.