Post/Author/DateTime	Post
weepingminotaur 11-02-06, 10:07 AM	Hi there, My next adventure is going to be set in the marshes, and I was wondering if anyone had any encounter suggestions, tips, and general advice for me. The basic idea is that my PCs are going to be magically teleported to the edge of the marshes (long story, plot device from previous adventure) and be forced to make their way back to civilization. Basically, it's a way for me to put the PCs in an uncomfortable situation where they're deprived of city resources, exposed to natural hazards, and where they run a serious risk of getting lost. My last adventure was very dungeon-crawly, with lots of combat, so this time I want a change of pace: outdoors, funky weather and terrain, and more non-combat encounters. However, I've never run an adventure set in marshland before. Does anyone have any words of wisdom for me? Much thanks. weepingminotaur
LCD2YOU 11-02-06, 10:18 AM	Slow, sticky, stinky, full of while not "quicksand" it is stuff that will suck you under the water so you'll drown. There are plenty of under the water "rivers" that cut deep unseen trenches that someone steps into and suddenly is under water. Leeches, poisonous snakes and other cridders run rampant. In deep enough water, a character could be considered deprived of their AC bonuses do to dex because they are in waist deep water and their boots are in the muck. Combat needs to be even more watched as "running to help someone" or "get the heck out of the way" means crossing places that can be very treacherous. Even slogging through the water can cause rashes and worse. Something like jungle rot is very possible. Fungal infections and spetic wounds from cuts that get into the fetid water are likewise a huge issue. Wet clothing and keeping warm at night could likewise be a huge issue. What you need to do is make a few tables. One is just travelling and watching what they are doing carefully (they will be moving 1m/hr at best and even then it can be even less in a straight line). It has a few pit falls and such (still don't forget to have a the Ranger or who is in the lead just roll for things. Write them down and look like you're planning something. Your players will stop and let them waste 10, 20 or even 30 minutes of game time to slow them up even further). The next one is if they are moving "quickly". It will have a lot more pit falls, snakes, leeches, etc., that the PCs can have fun with. The last is what can happen everytime they move 5' in combat and they are moving at anything over 1/2 speed. Hope those help.
weepingminotaur 11-02-06, 10:34 AM	Thank you so much for your suggestions, they sound great and will help me out a lot! (I hadn't thought about the rashes / infection thing, heh heh) Is it too evil to have an encounter where the fighter hits a 'deep river' patch accidentally, starts to drown (because of his heavy armor), and has to be rescued by his companions in combat rounds?
LCD2YOU 11-02-06, 10:41 AM	Thank you so much for your suggestions, they sound great and will help me out a lot! (I hadn't thought about the rashes / infection thing, heh heh) Is it too evil to have an encounter where the fighter hits a 'deep river' patch accidentally, starts to drown (because of his heavy armor), and has to be rescued by his companions in combat rounds?No it is not. It would be where denziens of the marsh would want to start hostilities with a bunch of armored knuckleheads. Remeber, those that live in the area would know where the best "fighting places" are and use it to their advantage. As for how many combat rounds, that depends. Don't forget that they have to notice the guy going into the drink first. Then if they try to break contact, AoO from their foes, etc. Then they have to actually move over there (and face the same hazards). Just march off the disatnace and keep it in rounds.
furor 11-02-06, 10:43 AM	not at all, in fact how about an encounter during said mishap, otyugh or large constrictor would do wonders. I had a marsh "crawl" in a campaign I was playing. A tribe of lizardfolk herded the pc's into a black dragon lair,huge battle, and as the marshes gave way to hills, a pack of howlers pursued them. just some ideas.
CharlieRock 11-02-06, 10:45 AM	Remember to powder your boots and change socks often :D
weepingminotaur 11-02-06, 10:47 AM	As for how many combat rounds, that depends. Don't forget that they have to notice the guy going into the drink first. Then if they try to break contact, AoO from their foes, etc. Then they have to actually move over there (and face the same hazards). Just march off the disatnace and keep it in rounds. My last question for you is this: how do I offset the powers of the party druid? She can shapechange three times a day, and I don't want her using her abilities to fly ahead, evade all the dangers, and lead the PCs out of the marsh in half the time I'd planned.
Amadan 11-02-06, 10:52 AM	My last question for you is this: how do I offset the powers of the party druid? She can shapechange three times a day, and I don't want her using her abilities to fly ahead, evade all the dangers, and lead the PCs out of the marsh in half the time I'd planned. No good paths out: all directions to take are equally bad. Definately don't forget terrain hazards (which others have mentioned): quicksand, unseen potholes underwater, debrie piles, land that looks dry/solid but isn't; slowed movement, cover, sleep problems.
weepingminotaur 11-02-06, 11:00 AM	Is it feasible for structures (small buildings, etc.) to exist in a marshland, or would any such structure simply sink into the bog?
LCD2YOU 11-02-06, 11:17 AM	My last question for you is this: how do I offset the powers of the party druid? She can shapechange three times a day, and I don't want her using her abilities to fly ahead, evade all the dangers, and lead the PCs out of the marsh in half the time I'd planned.Unless she has X-Ray vision, how is she going to see what is under the water? At altitude what are they really going to see? If the top of the water is covered in saw grass (that will cut deep into even leather and it tears up skin), where does there land start and the water start? Trees and the Druid is a primate bouncing from tree to tree? Meet Mr. Boa Constrictor. He was waiting for fast food to drop on by.Is it feasible for structures (small buildings, etc.) to exist in a marshland, or would any such structure simply sink into the bog?Oh yes. They may have sunk somewhat (with hints of treasure just under the water - in a lair of something appropiate to their level who may have had time to prepare as they saw them coming and attack at night - Ranger/Druid use your skills and feats well). Good stuff.
CharlieRock 11-02-06, 11:23 AM	Is it feasible for structures (small buildings, etc.) to exist in a marshland, or would any such structure simply sink into the bog? The Romans built an entire city on a swamp land. Just took a lot of concrete. Some places in Louisiana do okay, especially the ones on stilts.
LCD2YOU 11-02-06, 12:20 PM	The Romans built an entire city on a swamp land. Just took a lot of concrete. Some places in Louisiana do okay, especially the ones on stilts.I always thought it was called New Orleans :rolleyes: Timed to get banned for incredibly poor taste.
weepingminotaur 11-02-06, 12:28 PM	Hmm, okay, then I think I'll start my players off in an abandoned temple in the middle of the marsh. Maybe make it half-flooded so they have to get themselves out of there quickly.
LCD2YOU 11-02-06, 12:33 PM	Hmm, okay, then I think I'll start my players off in an abandoned temple in the middle of the marsh. Maybe make it half-flooded so they have to get themselves out of there quickly.It'll be more fun if they have to trod through said marshes to get from A to B. Having the law find them for past misdeeds and chase them into it (right or wrong - but enough to get them killed if they stay) makes for a better game.
CryoSilver 11-02-06, 12:40 PM	Let me just say that working in a swamp sucks; I had to do a lot of work with my job in marshes and swamps last summer, and it was the most unpleasant environment I've ever worked in. Swamps should require saves against heat as though they were one step higher in temp, due to the incredibly high humidity. Movement should be hindered by the vegetation (treat as heavy undergrowth). Poisonous snakes are a concern, as are quicksand. If you really want to be mean, have some of those nasty little catfish from the Amazon that swim into your orifices and feed on your blood...
Arganis 11-02-06, 12:53 PM	My last question for you is this: how do I offset the powers of the party druid? She can shapechange three times a day, and I don't want her using her abilities to fly ahead, evade all the dangers, and lead the PCs out of the marsh in half the time I'd planned. I am of the opinion that you should not be trying to cripple every resource the party has. This adventure is the druid's chance to shine.
weepingminotaur 11-02-06, 01:13 PM	I am of the opinion that you should not be trying to cripple every resource the party has. This adventure is the druid's chance to shine. Agreed, that wasn’t my intention. I just don’t want the adventure to turn into a cakewalk because of the druid. What I’ll probably do is build a few not-so-obvious ways for the druid to help the party out into the adventure and then see if they occur to the player. If she uses her character properly, I’m all for allowing the druid’s abilities to shine. It'll be more fun if they have to trod through said marshes to get from A to B. Having the law find them for past misdeeds and chase them into it (right or wrong - but enough to get them killed if they stay) makes for a better game. That sounds pretty good, but I’ve already set it up so that they get teleported into the middle of the swamp (in the aforementioned abandoned temple) and then have to slog their way back to civilization, avoiding hazards and monsters along the way. Swamps should require saves against heat as though they were one step higher in temp, due to the incredibly high humidity. Hadn’t thought of that, but will do. Movement should be hindered by the vegetation (treat as heavy undergrowth). Another chance for the druid to shine, since she can move through undergrowth without penalties. Poisonous snakes are a concern, as are quicksand. If you really want to be mean, have some of those nasty little catfish from the Amazon that swim into your orifices and feed on your blood... I think I’ll limit the quicksand, simply because this marsh is going to present quite a challenge to the PCs on its own. Maybe I’ll drop some quicksand into one encounter.
boozerker 11-02-06, 01:15 PM	Give it a spooky feel at times. Thick fog, dead trees, full moon and things brush against the PCs underwater. Hmm, okay, then I think I'll start my players off in an abandoned temple in the middle of the marsh. Maybe make it half-flooded so they have to get themselves out of there quickly. If buildings are half flooded, and treasure exists under the muck, searces for it could be fun. Just place a gold nugget sticking out of gunk somewhere above the water as a hint of more treasure below. When PCs enter a structure, they might hear a splash like something large dipped underwater as they approached. Make them paranoid of something that might bite their exposed legs.
CharlieRock 11-02-06, 01:32 PM	Agreed, that wasn’t my intention. I just don’t want the adventure to turn into a cakewalk because of the druid. What I’ll probably do is build a few not-so-obvious ways for the druid to help the party out into the adventure and then see if they occur to the player. If she uses her character properly, I’m all for allowing the druid’s abilities to shine. Aerial reconnaisance isn't going to help at all if the danger is subsurface. A giant snake laying in the muck (or even underwater) is almost invisible from the air (unless it moves). Crocs are also known to creep along just under waters surface. LizardMen are sure to use this tactic as well. Maybe the vegetation itself is alive (assassin vines or whatnot). How are you going to spot that in a pile of other marshgrasses ? :plotting:
CryoSilver 11-02-06, 02:31 PM	If the druid is flying above the vegetation, he isn't going to see anything beneath it (treat as total cover, or at least a -10 to Spot checks)
RobbyPants 11-02-06, 02:35 PM	I've done something similar before. One time, I had the PCs wading waste deep through water, and they got attacked by lizard men that stayed underwater. This was back in 2E, so movement speeds were differently, but basically, the PCs were all moving at 1/2 speed, and the lizard men were swimming at normal speed (double the PCs current speed). They just used some hit & run tactics at first, and then resorted to grappling. It was a good way to take a relatively weak monster and make a tough encounter out of it!
weepingminotaur 11-02-06, 02:42 PM	The thing is, I want to keep this adventure light on monsters and combat and have the terrain and climate be more of a challenge in a limited time span: maybe they only have 5 days to escape the marsh before an ogre-led orc tribe masses to attack the nearest settlement. So I'd like the encounters to test the PCs in non-combat situations. (I threw lots of combat at them in our last session, and I want to give both them and myself a breather) :)
gastropod 11-02-06, 03:05 PM	I know you want to keep combat light, but if your group is about CR 8-9 there is an awesome undead creature in MM3 called Drowned. They are a drowned soul that has a 30' aura around them that has the effect of being underwater. The characters either need a water breathing spell or item, or they have to make Fortitude saves to avoid drowning. As far as the fighter slipping into a sink hole, you should give the players warning, and then give them survival checks to avoid slipping into a deep water hole. Anywhere up to a DC 15 is a good number, the Druid and the Ranger will probably usually pass, but that makes the fighter very vulnerable. Sleeping will be an issue if they are always in water, so they may become fatigued and exhausted by the time they leave the swamps unless they have access and use extra dimensional spaces to sleep in at night. Do they have access to teleportation magic? If so that might thwart your plans. One other idea, you could have someone stalking them and following them through the swamps. Try to creep them out, but do it slowly and drag it along until you are ready to spring that encounter.
Sereno 11-02-06, 03:16 PM	You didn't say what level your PCs are, did you? If they have access to Fly/Teleport/Treestride/etc, it doesn't matter how tough the terrain is, they'll just bypass it all. The effect of Flying can be mitigated by having some nasty flying creatures that patrol the sky above the trees but the density of the vegetation keeps them from diving down; except in the bigger lake/river areas. They might also get the idea to make a dugout canoe and follow one of the deeper/wider waterways ... by boat is the usual way of getting around in a swamp. Also, don't forget fun plant monsters like tendriculous and shambling mounds.
weepingminotaur 11-02-06, 04:04 PM	The average party level is 7, but apart from the druid, they don't have access to any fly or teleportation magic.
CharlieRock 11-02-06, 04:07 PM	Swamps ,bogs, and jungles do have a large amount of poisonous flora. Trust me.
CryoSilver 11-02-06, 04:09 PM	Another good way to limit the use of flight/teleportation is making them find something in the swamp; this makes avoiding it a moot point.
boozerker 11-02-06, 04:35 PM	If they have access to Fly/Teleport/Treestride/etc, it doesn't matter how tough the terrain is, they'll just bypass it all. People usually say that, but I think players tend to weigh options. Will they need teleport/fly/etc in a later encounter? Is it worth spending the spell slot just to bypass terrain? And if the PCs have no idea where they're at, perhaps they're out of spell range for the nearest teleport destination.
RK)13 11-02-06, 06:57 PM	A couple things... Disease... lots of disease comes from swamps... Malaria, Yellow Fever historically. In these swamps, you could use a low level filth fever, have to make an low fortitude save every day to avoid contracting it. Make it enough to debilitate, not enough to kill. Also... one of the most unique dungeon settings I've ever seen was in a castle that was completely submerged in a swamp. A castle becomes very much like a dungeon when its underground, and would make an excellent black dragon lair.
Arcen 11-02-06, 07:04 PM	Read up on Chuuls. They make great swamp encounters.
tafkamhokie 11-02-06, 08:22 PM	I had my group stomping through a swamp to get to an abandoned temple. During that escapade, we had one of the most entertaining battles ever due to the terrain. The battle was between the party and ten low-level lizardfolk druids. On dry land, this should not have been a challenge to the party. But on their home turf, this one was TOUGH. There was some quicksand sprinkled here and there (which the sorcerer managed to dimension door right into the middle of) The druids all wildshaped into crocodiles. They all also had crocodile animal companions. Croc's are bit tough anyway, but when you look at their hide bonus in the water, their grapple check, and their ability to hold their breath, and you really can make a tough fight with some weaker creatures. Throw in a summoned small water elemental (even a small water elemental can capsize most any canoe/raft/boat the party could be using), and things get fun in a hurry. As the crocs and water elementals made a mess of things, the party kept stepping into the Snare traps set by the druids. On top of all that, the druids themselves just stayed hid in the water (back to that hide modifier crocs get in the water) and cast call lighting. It was probably ten rounds into the fight before anyone in the party finally spotted one of the druids. All told, a pretty simple encounter turned into an epic battle for the ages, primarily because of the swamp terrain. Lot's of fun.
Goon_for_Hire 11-02-06, 08:41 PM	Don't forget the possibilites in colder and temperate marshes! After snow it takes someone who knows what they are doing to tell a patch of safe snow from a slush bog (like quicksand only with hypothermia.) On a cold marsh/wetland the wind can really drag the temperature down. I used to live in an area that was a nice comfortable 10 to 20 degress (celsius) in the spring and summer, but was routinely down at -40 to -50 for most of the winter (don't go out with wet hair in that, it snaps right off!) There's lots of food in a cold marsh, not much of it poison in the "call the paramedics sense" but if you don't know what you are looking for, its very easy to eat soemthing hallucinogenic like black millet or psiobicyllin. A lot of the animals that might otherwise be edible (your muskrats, opossums, and foxes) could also be disease-ridden and thus dangerous if undercooked (especially in the fall.) If you move from gentle marsh to really muddy swamp don't forget methane spouts. I used to live near a swam called "The Devil's Kitchen" that had areas where rotting vegetation would occasionally vent in clouds of invisible and nearly odourless (but potentially lethal) gas clouds. The only warning you really get if you aren't watching the insects is the ocasional flare of ignis fatuus. And speaking of insects... they can be a non-monstrous hazard in any marsh. PCs who don;t find a way to repel them might have to make checks against something akin to "red ache." Consider non-monstrous plant hazards, like brown or yellow mold. If you have FORSTBURN check out Snowflake Lichen. That one could be fun in any climate.
boozerker 11-03-06, 12:19 AM	Also... one of the most unique dungeon settings I've ever seen was in a castle that was completely submerged in a swamp. What module is that from? And was the castle completely water-filled?
malakaiunseen 11-03-06, 02:59 AM	Just reading this thread makes me want to run a game in marshes now! I was thinking that if you have a chance it could be fun to allow the party to come to rely on the druid's skills for most of the trip, then seperate the druid from the party for an encounter when she would have been of particular use. If you've ever split a party before you'll know how much fun it can be, despite taking double the real time. Having the druid "kidnapped" while reconnoiting by some minions of a protector of the marsh who needs her help could be a nice side adventure for the druid. IT would also have the other players in a panic. Just tell the druid's character not to come along on that night and maybe tell the other players that he/she has decided to drop out of this game. You can have the rest of the players witness the druid dissapearing below the water while the druid is there the session before, or at the beginning of the session when her player doesnt turn up. Either way, your players will be mortified. And when they do eventually meet back up with the druid they will be so relieved! You'd be surprised just how much some real emotion can add to an RP game. If the players are shocked/scared/worried as well as their characters, it adds soo much tothe way they play. Just a thought ;)
MortalPlague 11-03-06, 05:07 AM	Just reading this thread makes me want to run a game in marshes now! Likewise... in fact, I'm heading off to read up on black dragons. It would be fun to run a marsh-based campaign with a black dragon as the final villain. He could have all the lizardfolk at his beck and call... :devil:
Goon_for_Hire 11-03-06, 08:05 AM	What module is that from? And was the castle completely water-filled? The was in the back of the AD&D2e Campaign Sourcebook and Catacombs Guide. Best manual of the TSR era. They had suggestions on how to use it either flooded or sealed airtight.
Sereno 11-03-06, 08:31 AM	People usually say that, but I think players tend to weigh options. Will they need teleport/fly/etc in a later encounter? Is it worth spending the spell slot just to bypass terrain? And if the PCs have no idea where they're at, perhaps they're out of spell range for the nearest teleport destination. It depends very highly on the level ... if I've only got one 5th level spell, I might not "waste" it on travel. However, if I've got a number of 5th level spells, I'll certainly burn one to arrive at my destination without having to be worried about being beat-up by all the encounters along the way.
DMDaddy 11-03-06, 10:16 AM	My players recently played through a marsh. The fun for them was planning how to get out and to deal with a few common obstacles. Deep bogs that are 20'. The player in the front falls in and the heavy swamp water pulls him down. The other players must save him before he drowns. Like quicksand. Any one else who jumps in faces the same dangers. They must some how figure out how to get the player out. Let this happen a few times until the come up with a way to avoid it. Like probing the ground ahead of them with long sticks. Use the "getting lost rules". This can be fun and allow for the players to come up with strategies to not get lost. Make it foggy. Draw up a detailed battle area with a low CR Hydra. Include all the various terrain features in the DMG. Shallow and Deep Bogs, Undergrowth (Overgrowth) whatever it's called. Fallen trees and standing trees. Quicksand patches.
Sereno 11-03-06, 11:08 AM	Make it foggy. Oh! Absolutely!! Any swamp that deserves the name should have plenty of mist and fog ... that sometimes forms sinister shapes that the PCs only catch glimpses of from the corner of their eyes. Like faces. Or, dragon-shapes. And, hands ... there's nothing like a huge misty hand, with misty talons, slowly reaching for the PCs, too. :)
weepingminotaur 11-03-06, 11:13 AM	Wow, this thread is awesome! I think I'm going to go with cold marshes in the end: lots of fog, shallow and deep bogs, a bit of quicksand, and many creepy noises. Maybe stage an attack on their campsite at night when only one person is on duty and run combat WITHOUT minis (yes!) because the heavy fog will prevent anyone from seeing more than five feet in front of them. I also like the idea of fever, disease, and poison setting in after a day or two. How about this: have the PCs encounter a seemingly friendly hermit who lives in the marsh, but who's actually mad and enjoys providing unwary victims with false directions to either get them drowned in the bog or lead them into a monster's lair. He's got lots of ranks in Bluff, Survival and Disguise (I'm thinking Ranger/Rogue), maybe a few helpful feats like Run. One of his sick pleasures is to offer people travelling directions as himself, wait until they leave, disguise himself as someone else, catch up to them, and offer the exact opposite travelling directions while casting aspersions on 'himself'. If I run a black dragon in this marsh, maybe this guy serves the dragon, but has his own demented agenda, kind of like Gollum and Shelob in LOTR. So he's supposed to lure treasure-laden adventurers to the dragon's lair, but he does it in his own twisted way.
Goon_for_Hire 11-03-06, 11:17 AM	Wow, this thread is awesome! I think I'm going to go with cold marshes in the end: lots of fog, shallow and deep bogs, a bit of quicksand, and many creepy noises. Maybe stage an attack on their campsite at night when only one person is on duty and run combat WITHOUT minis (yes!) because the heavy fog will prevent anyone from seeing more than five feet in front of them. I also like the idea of fever, disease, and poison setting in after a day or two. Nothing like dropping glitterdust on your party first thing to make this sort of encounter really nasty. Especially if the bad guys have sneak attacks. How about this: have the PCs encounter a seemingly friendly hermit who lives in the marsh, but who's actually mad and enjoys providing unwary victims with false directions to either get them drowned in the bog or lead them into a monster's lair. He's got lots of ranks in Bluff, Survival and Disguise (I'm thinking Ranger/Rogue), maybe a few helpful feats like Run. One of his sick pleasures is to offer people travelling directions as himself, wait until they leave, disguise himself as someone else, catch up to them, and offer the exact opposite travelling directions while casting aspersions on 'himself'. If I run a black dragon in this marsh, maybe this guy serves the dragon, but has his own demented agenda, kind of like Gollum and Shelob in LOTR. So he's supposed to lure treasure-laden adventurers to the dragon's lair, but he does it in his own twisted way. Nice. Very nice. I like Green Hags or Marzannas as a possible monstrous ally for this guy.
alecthemad 11-03-06, 01:02 PM	Read up on Chuuls. They make great swamp encounters. They are also intelligent so they can use more advance tactics. I ran a party through a swamp encounter once where the Chuul had a bag of tricks and used its tentacles to work it. As an added benefit a shambling mound kinda followed it around feasting on what it left behind. So they had a twofer.
DrMorganes 11-03-06, 01:19 PM	Just to toss this out quickly: I believe Stormwrack has rules - and terrain hazards - for all sorts of water-based encounters. Depending on where you place the "swamp" (a word which conjures images of the bayou and the Amazon), Frostburn and Sandstorm could also be adapted for some truly nasty surprises!
RK)13 11-03-06, 03:21 PM	The was in the back of the AD&D2e Campaign Sourcebook and Catacombs Guide. Best manual of the TSR era. They had suggestions on how to use it either flooded or sealed airtight. Thanks Goon... I agree best sourcebook TSR ever put out for DMs. What module is that from? And was the castle completely water-filled? Yeah, basically take a castle, and submerge it. Have a corner turret or some other method of entry (dug out to the gates n the side of a hill, etc.). You can fully flood the dungeon if you want, just make sure the castle has sunk below the waterline of the swamp. Also, you can use mud and various oozy elements.
weepingminotaur 11-10-06, 11:47 AM	Help! I started this marsh adventure, but how do I get around the druid's endure elements spell? I hadn't reckoned with this, and she's able to cast it on herself and both the other party members and essentially give them 24-hour protection from the elements.
gastropod 11-10-06, 01:24 PM	Help! I started this marsh adventure, but how do I get around the druid's endure elements spell? I hadn't reckoned with this, and she's able to cast it on herself and both the other party members and essentially give them 24-hour protection from the elements. But this spell only protects against extreme hot and cold natural elements. Plus that will be 3 first level spells they automatically use each day. The next thing you throw in is make resources important, and tack on the penalties if the pcs cannot find them. Being in a marsh, the chances of getting fresh water will probably be a lot more difficult. Instead of a 10 make it a DC 20 survival check. While the PCs are looking for resources, they can only go at half movement speed. Which they are probably already going half because of difficult terrain. So they are already down to a quarter speed. If they choose to use more spells to purify food and water, that is more resources they use up. It might come to a point where they run out of first level spells just to make the party survive so they start using their second level spell slots to finish casting all of the spells that they need to survive each day. I know I have read that you do not want to make this a huge combat campaign, but, what would happen on one of the nights after they used most of their spells the day before, then you did not allow the spell casters to rest and restore their spells over one night because the beast in the swamp kept interrupting their rest. Then they WOULD be in a tough spot the next day and couldnt use their spells to endure elements. Don't do that too often though. Keep us posted and we will give you more suggestions. Good Luck
Goon_for_Hire 11-10-06, 01:28 PM	Help! I started this marsh adventure, but how do I get around the druid's endure elements spell? I hadn't reckoned with this, and she's able to cast it on herself and both the other party members and essentially give them 24-hour protection from the elements. Remember it's all fun and games until someone get's hit with dispel magic in the middle of a sleet storm... then you have a nasty night of using heal checks to try and fix hypothermia while stuck in insufficient shelter. I'd imagine she doesn't memorize it more than three times. Endure elements really ony helps them with the temperature. Poison gasses, bad weather, diseased insects, etc. still make you miserable. Fog adn rain still ruin your ability to fight outside of melee. If you can, check out FROSTBURN's advanced rules on hypothermia and protection from the cold, a sopping wet character in -20 weather is still going to feel some nasty effects, although they'll be moderated.
Goon_for_Hire 11-10-06, 01:29 PM	There's a nasty thought... a null-magic zone over a five-mile streach of swamp. With a storm hitting in the middle of it.
DMDaddy 11-10-06, 02:19 PM	Help! I started this marsh adventure, but how do I get around the druid's endure elements spell? I hadn't reckoned with this, and she's able to cast it on herself and both the other party members and essentially give them 24-hour protection from the elements. Hooray for the players. It is fun for them when they figure out a way to counter the situations you place them in. Just tweak the scenario slightly to give them some other challenge. Maybe they smell smoke from a camp fire, and have to figure out how to find the source. It's just a fire from a lost expedition with only one survivor. His leg is broken and he has to get a valuable item from one of the dead members who is at the bottom of some thick deep bog. Let the PCs figure out a way to swim to the bottom and get the item. Make it quick sand bog. It's easy, but they will love it. The twist is that when one of the PCs is in the bog, have a monster wander up and attack the others. A weak monster who is after the one survivor. So, the PCs will have to protect this survivor and at the same time make sure they pull up the PC in the bog before he runs out of air.
TwiddleStootch 11-10-06, 02:21 PM	I have nothing to add to this thread, but I would just like to thank you all! I am planning a large area of marshes for my next campaign, and this thread will be a huge help. thanks!
weepingminotaur 11-10-06, 05:06 PM	I guess I'll stick with the disease from insects and bad weather. The rescue idea is cool but I'm not sure we'll have time for it this session. I've got a nice scenario sketched out involving the PCs having to avoid detection by a warband of 200+ orcs -- they can hide, fight (and almost certainly be taken prisoner), or run across the treacherous swamp ... all the while being stalked by the mad rogue/ranger who gave them false directions earlier on. :cool:
Type2Demon 11-10-06, 09:50 PM	Fog, Water hazards, disease are all great ideas. Don't forget the classic swamp encounters... A covey of Hags. Those juicy adventures would make a lovely stew. Will O the Wisps: That light out there in the fog...is it a lantern? Or something more sinister. Yuan-ti, Vampires and trolls are all good ideas for a swamp. Try throwing in an oddball creature too... A Kraken (or Aboleth) that lurks in the murky water just waiting for a chance to send out its tentecles to snag a tasty adventurer.
henebry 11-10-06, 09:56 PM	The shocker lizard is one of my favorites. I'd supply a large ruined temple for the shapechanged Druid to find. She can lead the party right into the middle of an overgrown Temple court which turns out to be full of shockers. They've got a good Hide score, and when they suddenly rear their heads, looking cute as hell, the party will either know immediately or find out quite quickly that 5-10 shockers punch well above their CR. The best part is that the Shockers needn't be hostile (though they may indeed be Temple guardians of some sort); but when the shockers come out of hiding, describe the strange hush that decends on the jungle, then the sole chirp of a Shocker in the midst of silence, then a rising chorus of chirps which fills the air: the little blue beasts are all around, and when anyone makes a move in any direction, the nearest shocker stands its full 2' height and a slight blue spark is glimpsed between its ears. The key is the suspense. And then the carnage, of course. But suspense first.
boozerker 11-10-06, 11:54 PM	If they choose to use more spells to purify food and water, that is more resources they use up. It might come to a point where they run out of first level spells just to make the party survive so they start using their second level spell slots to finish casting all of the spells that they need to survive each day. Remember it's all fun and games until someone get's hit with dispel magic in the middle of a sleet storm... then you have a nasty night of using heal checks to try and fix hypothermia while stuck in insufficient shelter. I'd imagine she doesn't memorize it more than three times. Endure elements really ony helps them with the temperature. Poison gasses, bad weather, diseased insects, etc. still make you miserable. Fog adn rain still ruin your ability to fight outside of melee. Expanding on the above....if any scouts are observing the adventurers, the enemy can respond to the party's actions. For example, if the PCs use magic, an enemy spellcaster might be fetched to dispel magic. If the party uses flight magic, they become extra visible to flying monsters (very hungry ones). If known locations are far out of spell range, teleport becomes useless.
weepingminotaur 11-11-06, 12:02 PM	I like the dispel magic idea. In fact, I think I'm going to make my mad ranger / rogue a ranger / sorcerer instead so he can trail the companions and mess up their protection magic for his own twisted pleasure. Re: shocker lizards, I just used them in the previous adventure (and it wasn't the first time), so as much as I'd like to use 'em, I think I'll have to pass on them. I think I'll use the will o' the wisp as well. And I'd already thought about a vampire. Will need a few days to integrate the vamp with the storyline, but it should be good...
CryoSilver 11-11-06, 04:09 PM	I love marshes/swamps for horror games; the fog, the strange monsters, the isolation: they're perfect. When used right, the environment can boost the EL of any given encounter by 2 or more. When you can threaten a level 12 party with Chuuls, you know you're doing it right.
cog_and_taz 11-11-06, 08:45 PM	A couple suggestions on monsters, since everyone(especially LCD) covered terrain very nicely. fer example, use treasure as bait. Not necessarily the normal stuff(gold n such), that wouldn't make sense. Instead, have rare plants that are spell comps for the casters, poisons for the rogue, or just plain food. Maybe have them find a bunch of darkwood or some special metal, the trick is to keep it natural. Now, picture this scene... DM:make a spot check Player x: 18 DM:(he actually failed the check)you see a small natural tunnel, composed entirely of plant matter entwined around itself. Within it is a/n (insert treasure here). P:I go inside to pick it up. DM: ...and that's when the tendriculos closes its mouth:D. Also, native creatures can actually deal with the terrain, consider these options... 1: The PCs fall into a quagmire/river thingy, and try desperately to get out, failing, but not sinking. They also create a huge commotion. Have them make a spot check. If they succeed, they see many reptilian eyes right above water level coming towards them. Dire crocodile time! 2: A bunch of (insert pack animal here, but I prefer gricks) chase them into a bog. They, ofcourse, know their way around it, and can take bites at them while all the PCs can do is try to get out. 3: carrion crawlers, need I say more? Oh alright, as they get attacked, the area starts to, predictably, stink of the blood of both sides. This attracts the attention of more crawlers. In addition, it gets the attention of a bulette. Hwoever, as the hungry lummox charges, it skids through peat, (horribly unrealistically)setting itself on fire. This doesn't harm the bulette, but it's trying to eat everything indiscriminately, crawler or PC, and is also on fire. Mass chaos:thumbsup: 4: have the wizard/cleric/book caster come across a scrollcase in a bog. He/she rescues it and finds a scroll for a very nice spell inside. The catch? The material component is pieces of shrieker/violet fungus. They then have to give up an uber spell or go intentionally deeper into the swamp in search of trouble. 5: They get into a bog/quagmire, which is actually a trap made by monsters(think antlion). hey fall through it into a surprisingly dry tunnel, onto a net of sticky webs. They notice that they're surruounded by spiders and (if you're feeling silly) an ettercap with a frying pan and a chef hat. Alternatively, substitute some other monsters in place of eight-legged stuff. 6: the PCs find, after a long search, a river of clear, pristine and utterly transparent water. Seeing as they're lethally thirsty and this is beautiful water right in front of them, they decide to drink it. Little do they know that it's a few BIG gelatinous cubes. 7: A gray render, except that this one looks hideously scary and mutated, but is one that actually "adopted" them. 8: As they're strolling along through the swamp, have them make a spot check, if they succeed, they notice 8 half-submerged logs on the path. If they get closer, the 8 hydra heads try to eat em. 9: a lizardfolk community within the swamp, these guys live there, so if they get them on their side, they could be a big help. 10: otyughs, lots of 'em, be graphic with the description, this is bound to get em. 11: to add to the list of dangerous fungi, phantom fungus, feel free to add this to the list on 4. 12:A bit like the bulette trick. They encounter a shambling mound during a storm. It is initially hit by lightning, gaining the extra con and a static field (1d4 ele damage within 10 ft. every round). Put a pile o' peat somewhere in the area. If the shambler or fire damage hits it, well... let the fun(and flaming zapping shambler) begin! 13:stirge swarms, not everything has to be deadly, but this will be rather realistic. 14: they find a grove within the swamp, trees of darkwood, bronzewood or some such. They count themselves lucky and march in. When they start to cut the trees down(assuming no druid), the trees start screaming in pain. As well as, you know, attacking them. 15: what, you honestly expected this to be a 1001 post? Hope this helped. Oh yeah, and chuuls are good too, but they've already been covered, so I didn't feel any need to say anything about them.
cog_and_taz 11-12-06, 10:08 AM	bump
Rabscuttle 11-13-06, 09:34 PM	Giant carnivorous frogs are always fun...they swim quickly under water and can leap a good distance. I don't think they are in the Monster Manual. I used wolf stats, took away the trip feat and added swimming & jumping. Vermin in general are good in a swamp. Start with tiny ones and continue to increase the sizes, it will help add dread to each day as the party wonders what is next.
MortalPlague 11-14-06, 12:58 AM	I don't think they are in the Monster Manual. I used wolf stats, took away the trip feat and added swimming & jumping. Instead, they ought to get improved grab and swallow whole. The latter won't come into play unless you bump the frog's size category up to huge, and then it's a nightmare. Think tongue attack with 20 foot reach. :devil:
DMDaddy 11-14-06, 01:19 AM	Instead, they ought to get improved grab and swallow whole. The latter won't come into play unless you bump the frog's size category up to huge, and then it's a nightmare. :devil: Toad's with improved grab and swallow whole I've used a few times. The players always love such encounters, especialy the nastolgia of getting swallowed and having to cut their way out. Constricting snakes are also fun if several of them drop down out of the tress. Make sure their is a druid or some other creature/person who controls them. Maybe an Ogre Ranger has 4 pet constrictors that he thows at the PCs before he charges in. A roper with it's 50' reach strand may grab a party member at 50'. Swarms also make for interesting and challenging fights. Create your own Swarm of misquittos or Leeches.
Neutronium_Dragon 11-14-06, 01:19 AM	If you want to avoid using large amounts of combat then you might consider having them encounter and have to deal with intelligent denizens of the marshes without those creatures being automatically hostile. Lizardfolk aren't necessarily interested in killing everyone they meet, although it could certainly require a bit of negotiation for them to let the PCs through their territory without trouble (giving you a chance to throw a subquest at them). But keep in mind, if they're 7th level characters then environmental hazards are going to be of limited effectiveness against them, especially if they have spellcasters (and doubly so if that includes a druid). By that point they have access to means to counter or mitigate most natural terrain problems; unnatural ones are more likely to cause them problems.
weepingminotaur 11-14-06, 10:29 AM	True enough, Neutronium, I'm realizing more and more that the environment can only go so far. I'm going to turn up the disease element in our next session, though. Hard to be effective in combat when you're fighting filth fever. :cool: As for the lizardfolk, great minds think alike. ;) I've already got a lizardfolk encounter planned for the PCs. They're not out to kill the party, and can provide them with valuable travel directions and other info if the PCs don't just start attacking.