Adventures of Moral Delimas [Archive] - Wizards Community

Adventures of Moral Delimas [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Midrealm_DM
07-18-07, 12:35 PM I recently helped a friend of mine create an adventure for his new campaign that left the players with two major choices:

Stay true to their word of Honor: (The Lawful choice)
Rescue some trapped NPCs: (The Good choice)

=-=-
What I was wondering is if anyone can think of a plot idea that results in the major venues of persuit as being either

Chaotic vs Good
Chaotic vs Evil
Lawful vs Evil

I have though up of dozens for Lawful v Good, but the others seem trickier.

Just wondering if anyone had a thought.

Thanks in advance!
Ace_of_Night
07-18-07, 01:21 PM First off, I don't see how rescuing trapped NPCs wouldn't be lawful, would you mind telling more in-depth what the choice actually encompasses?

Further,
Chaotic vs Good:
Disobey the normally good Emperor's commands and release the prisoners, who you need to free to get information about something important (chaotic choice)
Don't go with the prisoners demands to rescue them because they might cause more harm than the information will help you (Good choice.)

Lawful vs Evil:
Don't vanquish the newly conquered village, as it only consists of helpless civilians and even as a baddie you have some moral code not to kill helpless unarmed farmers (Lawful choice)
Tell them to pay you a handsome tax they probably can impossibly/hardly bring up, and kill them if they refuse. (Evil choice)

Chaotic vs Evil:
The king's men have arrested you and captured you. You beg them to spare your life before they attempt to murder you. (chaotic choice)
You spit in one's face and tell him evil wil prevail anyway and they will be the ones begging for mercy in the end (evil choice)
Misfit815
07-18-07, 01:28 PM First, it's "dilemmas". Sorry, but that bugs me.

Anyway, your question reminds me of the character creation for Ultima IV. Eight virtues were pitted against one another, two-by-two, and the player had to select one over another. The players answers determined the type of character with which they'd start the game. Since it was a single-elimination scheme (think of the NCAA men's Division I tournament), the outcome could be different each time, as only seven questions are used to determine the 'verdict'.

Example - Honesty vs. Compassion:
Entrusted to deliver an uncounted purse of gold, thou dost meet a poor
beggar. Dost thou A) deliver the gold knowing the Trust in thee was
well-placed; or B) show Compassion, giving the Beggar a coin, knowing it
won't be missed?

There's a FAQ here (http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/562660/7807) that lists all of these. Perhaps they'll be useful.

J
Midrealm_DM
07-18-07, 02:58 PM First, it's "dilemmas". Sorry, but that bugs me.

Yeah - I new it looked wrong but was too lazy to look it up.
Thanks for the correction.

Anyway, your question reminds me of the character creation for Ultima IV. Eight virtues were pitted against one another, two-by-two, and the player had to select one over another. The players answers determined the type of character with which they'd start the game.
This does look interesting, I can probably spin one or more of these. Thanks!

First off, I don't see how rescuing trapped NPCs wouldn't be lawful, would you mind telling more in-depth what the choice actually encompasses?
Not at all - though it is a complex issue.

My friend, Nick, asked me to help him think up an adventure idea for some new players that would make them stop and question the morality of their actions. This is what we came up with:

A little Background
The PCs are all loyal to the king, sworn to defend the kingdom and honor bound to obey the wishes of the kingdom.

As brief as possible:
The PCs are charge by the king to investigate a village to find out why the villagers have been getting sick (some of them fatally) and eliminate the cause _without_any_delay.

After some investigations the PCs discover the well water is poisoned, and is fed by an underground stream that flows under the neighboring dwarf mines (The dwarves are independant, and not under the king's rule)

The PCs approach the dwarves and learn that the recent spring rains have caused flooding in the lower tunnels. This is a common occurance, but this year, the water is not draining as fast as it usually does. As a result the rising flood waters have caught the dwarves unprepared.

Seven dwarven miners are trapped on a shelf of rock in an air pocket off of a main tunnel, and the rising flood waters threaten to drown them [these dwarves can't swim].

One of the local dwarves points out that they can colapse a breakpoint (with the party's help) sealing off the lower tunnels allowing it time to drain. It would only take about a month or so to excavate a new entrance to the lower tunnels.

Alternatively the party can do nothing, allow the dwarves to die, and the excess flood water should drain off within a day or two (allowing the party to investigate the cause of the poisoned water).

Law> The party can obey their orders and save their fellow citizens of the kingdom by allowing seven dwarves to drown.

Good> Or they can delay their mission (against orders) and collapse the tunnels saving the dwarves.

There are other issues that affect the PC's choice:
For example: Now that the cause is know, the villagers can stop using the well water.

It is not 100% cut and dried, but in the bare-bones essence of the choice, it is obey the king, or save the dwarves.

=-=
Also, thanks for the Ideas Ace_of_Night

I certainly welcome anyone else's input as well.
Ace_of_Night
07-18-07, 03:15 PM Ah now I get it..
And you're welcome :)
meabolex
07-18-07, 03:24 PM Chaotic vs Good
Chaotic vs Evil
Lawful vs Evil

In terms of absolute alignments versus each other, there are different ways to phrase it that might make more sense. Chaos almost always has a negative reaction to most people, so it's easy to clump it with Evil.

One possible Chaos vs Good can be a point of view on the idea of being "right" -- "is something right from your perspective" versus "is something right to everyone else". One idea is the classic Robin Hood debacle -- steal from the rich, give to the poor -- but is this stealing right if the noble is also good and it makes him poor?

Chaos vs Evil can be thought of as the revolutionary versus vengeance. V for Vendetta is a good example of this; V is definitely chaotic, but is his desire for revenge too much? Is he really interested in the good of the people or the destruction of those that wronged him?

Law vs Evil can be thought of as the internal battle against corruption. A powerful authority figure may not be tempted by bribes, but how high can the bribes go? What if someone can return a lost loved one back?

Just some ideas (:
Midrealm_DM
07-18-07, 05:27 PM Ok - After taking some advice and cobbling together bits this is my idea for the second adventure:

Several dwarves are dead (either through drowning from the first adventure or through an attack by human villagers) and the tensions are high. The dwarves are angry over the deaths of their people and the humans blame the dwarves for the recent poisoning of their water.

The king sends the party on a two fold mission:
First: A diplomatic offer of restitution to the dwarves
Second: Calm the populace of the village.

When at the dwarven mines, a dwarf approaches the party in secret and says that they have a matter of great importance, but the party must give their word not to tell anyone else.

The dwarf confesses that they accidentally poisoned the water. They were dabling with evil alchemy and magic (Necromancy or something) and grew scared, dumping all their supplies into the lower mines. They were unaware that the human village drew their water from the underground stream.

The dwarf confides that their brother was one of the dwarves that dies, and is sure that this was punishment from the gods. The dwarf cannot be convinced to confide this to anyone else.

The players must then decide to reveal the dwarves confession (breaking their oath) and bring the true responsible party to justice or leave the matter alone and try to preserve the diplomatic mission (the greater good).

To complicate matters when the party returns to the human village, the villagers will be demanding to know if the party discovered who poisoned the water and if it was the dwarves. The party may have to lie (dishonesty) to preserve the peace.

I think that seems pretty good for Chaos v Good-

Does anyone see room for improvement?

And any ideas what to do at the crux point if the party rufuses to give their word to the dwarf with the confession? That would kind-of stonewall the whole adventure.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Midrealm_DM 07-18-07, 12:35 PM	I recently helped a friend of mine create an adventure for his new campaign that left the players with two major choices: Stay true to their word of Honor: (The Lawful choice) Rescue some trapped NPCs: (The Good choice) =-=- What I was wondering is if anyone can think of a plot idea that results in the major venues of persuit as being either Chaotic vs Good Chaotic vs Evil Lawful vs Evil I have though up of dozens for Lawful v Good, but the others seem trickier. Just wondering if anyone had a thought. Thanks in advance!
Ace_of_Night 07-18-07, 01:21 PM	First off, I don't see how rescuing trapped NPCs wouldn't be lawful, would you mind telling more in-depth what the choice actually encompasses? Further, Chaotic vs Good: Disobey the normally good Emperor's commands and release the prisoners, who you need to free to get information about something important (chaotic choice) Don't go with the prisoners demands to rescue them because they might cause more harm than the information will help you (Good choice.) Lawful vs Evil: Don't vanquish the newly conquered village, as it only consists of helpless civilians and even as a baddie you have some moral code not to kill helpless unarmed farmers (Lawful choice) Tell them to pay you a handsome tax they probably can impossibly/hardly bring up, and kill them if they refuse. (Evil choice) Chaotic vs Evil: The king's men have arrested you and captured you. You beg them to spare your life before they attempt to murder you. (chaotic choice) You spit in one's face and tell him evil wil prevail anyway and they will be the ones begging for mercy in the end (evil choice)
Misfit815 07-18-07, 01:28 PM	First, it's "dilemmas". Sorry, but that bugs me. Anyway, your question reminds me of the character creation for Ultima IV. Eight virtues were pitted against one another, two-by-two, and the player had to select one over another. The players answers determined the type of character with which they'd start the game. Since it was a single-elimination scheme (think of the NCAA men's Division I tournament), the outcome could be different each time, as only seven questions are used to determine the 'verdict'. Example - Honesty vs. Compassion: Entrusted to deliver an uncounted purse of gold, thou dost meet a poor beggar. Dost thou A) deliver the gold knowing the Trust in thee was well-placed; or B) show Compassion, giving the Beggar a coin, knowing it won't be missed? There's a FAQ here (http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/562660/7807) that lists all of these. Perhaps they'll be useful. J
Midrealm_DM 07-18-07, 02:58 PM	First, it's "dilemmas". Sorry, but that bugs me. Yeah - I new it looked wrong but was too lazy to look it up. Thanks for the correction. Anyway, your question reminds me of the character creation for Ultima IV. Eight virtues were pitted against one another, two-by-two, and the player had to select one over another. The players answers determined the type of character with which they'd start the game. This does look interesting, I can probably spin one or more of these. Thanks! First off, I don't see how rescuing trapped NPCs wouldn't be lawful, would you mind telling more in-depth what the choice actually encompasses? Not at all - though it is a complex issue. My friend, Nick, asked me to help him think up an adventure idea for some new players that would make them stop and question the morality of their actions. This is what we came up with: A little Background The PCs are all loyal to the king, sworn to defend the kingdom and honor bound to obey the wishes of the kingdom. As brief as possible: The PCs are charge by the king to investigate a village to find out why the villagers have been getting sick (some of them fatally) and eliminate the cause _without_any_delay. After some investigations the PCs discover the well water is poisoned, and is fed by an underground stream that flows under the neighboring dwarf mines (The dwarves are independant, and not under the king's rule) The PCs approach the dwarves and learn that the recent spring rains have caused flooding in the lower tunnels. This is a common occurance, but this year, the water is not draining as fast as it usually does. As a result the rising flood waters have caught the dwarves unprepared. Seven dwarven miners are trapped on a shelf of rock in an air pocket off of a main tunnel, and the rising flood waters threaten to drown them [these dwarves can't swim]. One of the local dwarves points out that they can colapse a breakpoint (with the party's help) sealing off the lower tunnels allowing it time to drain. It would only take about a month or so to excavate a new entrance to the lower tunnels. Alternatively the party can do nothing, allow the dwarves to die, and the excess flood water should drain off within a day or two (allowing the party to investigate the cause of the poisoned water). Law> The party can obey their orders and save their fellow citizens of the kingdom by allowing seven dwarves to drown. Good> Or they can delay their mission (against orders) and collapse the tunnels saving the dwarves. There are other issues that affect the PC's choice: For example: Now that the cause is know, the villagers can stop using the well water. It is not 100% cut and dried, but in the bare-bones essence of the choice, it is obey the king, or save the dwarves. =-= Also, thanks for the Ideas Ace_of_Night I certainly welcome anyone else's input as well.
Ace_of_Night 07-18-07, 03:15 PM	Ah now I get it.. And you're welcome :)
meabolex 07-18-07, 03:24 PM	Chaotic vs Good Chaotic vs Evil Lawful vs Evil In terms of absolute alignments versus each other, there are different ways to phrase it that might make more sense. Chaos almost always has a negative reaction to most people, so it's easy to clump it with Evil. One possible Chaos vs Good can be a point of view on the idea of being "right" -- "is something right from your perspective" versus "is something right to everyone else". One idea is the classic Robin Hood debacle -- steal from the rich, give to the poor -- but is this stealing right if the noble is also good and it makes him poor? Chaos vs Evil can be thought of as the revolutionary versus vengeance. V for Vendetta is a good example of this; V is definitely chaotic, but is his desire for revenge too much? Is he really interested in the good of the people or the destruction of those that wronged him? Law vs Evil can be thought of as the internal battle against corruption. A powerful authority figure may not be tempted by bribes, but how high can the bribes go? What if someone can return a lost loved one back? Just some ideas (:
Midrealm_DM 07-18-07, 05:27 PM	Ok - After taking some advice and cobbling together bits this is my idea for the second adventure: Several dwarves are dead (either through drowning from the first adventure or through an attack by human villagers) and the tensions are high. The dwarves are angry over the deaths of their people and the humans blame the dwarves for the recent poisoning of their water. The king sends the party on a two fold mission: First: A diplomatic offer of restitution to the dwarves Second: Calm the populace of the village. When at the dwarven mines, a dwarf approaches the party in secret and says that they have a matter of great importance, but the party must give their word not to tell anyone else. The dwarf confesses that they accidentally poisoned the water. They were dabling with evil alchemy and magic (Necromancy or something) and grew scared, dumping all their supplies into the lower mines. They were unaware that the human village drew their water from the underground stream. The dwarf confides that their brother was one of the dwarves that dies, and is sure that this was punishment from the gods. The dwarf cannot be convinced to confide this to anyone else. The players must then decide to reveal the dwarves confession (breaking their oath) and bring the true responsible party to justice or leave the matter alone and try to preserve the diplomatic mission (the greater good). To complicate matters when the party returns to the human village, the villagers will be demanding to know if the party discovered who poisoned the water and if it was the dwarves. The party may have to lie (dishonesty) to preserve the peace. I think that seems pretty good for Chaos v Good- Does anyone see room for improvement? And any ideas what to do at the crux point if the party rufuses to give their word to the dwarf with the confession? That would kind-of stonewall the whole adventure.