Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MasterRookie 09-27-05, 01:25 PM	In my campain two PC's have essencially become enemys. One PC a CG half orc barbarian beat the other PC a CG elven ranger within an inch of his life and stole his two keen edged scimitars. Usually PCs in my campain if a PC starts out an enemy he quickly changes his mind and joins the PCs. If this is not the case I'd like some tips for running a campain with adversarial PCs. For starters how to keep them apart for some amounts of time, and how to keep them alive.
Luminous Crayon 09-27-05, 01:38 PM	There's not a whole lot of blanket advice I can give. PC adversary just happens sometimes, and there isn't one cure-all solution. The best I can give you is the advice to keep an open mind about it; rivalry or downright enmity between PCs can add to the fun of a game, if handled well. I've been running a political game for several months now, where the PCs are all heirs to the same wealthy noble house. It's fun to watch them at each others' throats, trying to be subtle and sneaky about their schemes, while the whole country erupts in chaos around them. The trick, as far as I can tell, is not to let the player conflict be the only focus. There needs to be external conflict as well. Force the PCs to work together, despite their feelings of mistrust and hatred. It might provoke your characters to start dealing with each other with trust and friendship in the long run, as they get used to saving each others' lives ot of necessity. It might just create some nice tension from the "I really want to kill this guy, but I can't. Yet." type of situation that a DM can easily create. Give them a challenge. Surround them with a large group of bandits. Have them ambushed in the middle of the night by a couple of trolls. Do SOMETHING to scare them into working together, and you may see the half-orc toss the elf his scimitars back, "just long enough for us to deal with this." Remember, it's nice to get them to work together, but if they still don't trust each other, that's fine. Even if they want to kill each other, that can be okay, too.
MasterRookie 09-27-05, 01:50 PM	Oh I have no intention of destroying the rivalry out right. I think it will be great. Its a new kind of game that should be a nice change from the classic adventuring party. I just want some tips to keep the game going. It wont be much fun if they just kill each other in their next encounter. And I can't expect the survivor to keep taking mercy on the dieing pc and heal them (then run). Naturally I can interupt their fights from time to time with an ogre or a gang of bandits attacking but that can't constantly happen.
Illion the Red 09-27-05, 01:57 PM	Important question: Do the PCs hate each other, or has it stemmed from/grown into animosity between the players? If the players are at odds, you have a potentially game-breaking situation and need to do something about it right away. If it's just the PCs at odds, one will eventually end up dead. Make sure that they each have a backup character ready for every game session...and make sure that the new character is not a "you killed my father, prepare to die" theme.
MasterRookie 09-27-05, 02:04 PM	Oh they're best friends in real life. Well so far the options seem to be: The PC's kill each other The PC's become friends There is sort of a middle ground where the PC's remain rivals with a bazare abusive relationship occasionally fighting and working together. Sorta like Kenshin and Saito.
Brimshack 09-27-05, 03:47 PM	My initial question was the same as the one you just answered. Too often I have seen players use their characters to get at each other at the expense of teh campaign. I would add that best friends may be even more likely than others to do this. Precisely because they are friends, they may use the game to vent at each other without having to acknowledge genuine hostility. But if you don't perceive animosity, I imagine it must be okay. In very abstract terms, I would be looking to capitalize on this by making it part of a larger plot. Essentially I would consider doing 2 things: 1) Enshrine the conflict, give them competing goals and let it play out even more. I would do this at the same time as or after I established... 2) Give them a reason to keep each other alivem, whether they like it or not. If they were lawful, I wouldengineer an oath from each that each must actively keep the other alive. But this could still be accomplished by using an NPC who for some reason wants both to stay alive, telling each that he will be killed if the other fails to survive. The idea here is to generate eternal conflict which can never be completely resolved. Then see what they come up with as ways of competing with each other. Naturally, this option would be taken aprt if and when the conflict became personal between the players.
Nom 09-27-05, 11:00 PM	In-party conflict can ultimately only be evaluated at the metagame level. If the players are enjoying it and neither minds if they "lose", then let it run. If the players are in conflict, then you need to step in and deal with it ASAP.
MinusInnocence 09-28-05, 03:46 AM	How exactly did two Chaotic Good heroes come to hate each other enough to want to kill one another? Sure, good entities can sometimes be at odds; and occasionally they can even squabble. Tragically, sometimes it erupts into violence and in the worst of situations, death is the result - but rarely is it premeditated or even really desired. I don't think the survivor will remain Chaotic Good for very long if he commits what basically amounts to murder of his companion. Not to rain on your parade, I just can't imagine how something like this could have happened. If they're really Chaotic Good, why hasn't the problem cleared up by now? Beating someone nearly to death then robbing their unconscious form is not restraint, it's just a different kind of malice.
MarkB 09-28-05, 04:59 AM	Even if the players are good friends, there are still some things you need to look out for: First, are both players into this adversarial situation? If so, that's fine, but if it's just one of the players putting his character against another, and the other player is simply going along with it, it's not fair to the second player to let this progress to actual conflict that may harm his PC. Second, how do the other players feel? Are they okay with conflict in their midst, or are they worried that it may be detrimental to their ability to function as a party and achieve their goals? Even if the two players involved are having fun, if it's stepping on everyone else's enjoyment, you need to ask them to cut back on it. If there aren't any such problems, then great - go along with it. There have already been some great suggestions in this thread on how to handle the matter. One twist you can add to the "make them need to work together" angle is to give them a mutual interest, perhaps someone else they both hate more than each other. Maybe a thief steals something valuable from each of them, and they need to work together to track him down.
jasper 09-28-05, 08:45 AM	Oh they're best friends in real life. Well so far the options seem to be: The PC's kill each other The PC's become friends There is sort of a middle ground where the PC's remain rivals with a bazare abusive relationship occasionally fighting and working together. Sorta like Kenshin and Saito. um I doubt this. I had the same situation with two guys name Scott, and Gary at my table. They said they were friends but their pcs were always ticking each other off. Tell them the best friend rivalry was fun the first dozen times but now it old. Then if you have to drop one from the table. Also in game if they are clueless take advantage of it. Gee Scott just beat up on Gary's pc sucks to be the party because they still walking into an ambush and I not down adjusting the monsters because the pcs got stupid. Gee Scott and Gary pcs went at in the bar. 3 days in the cooler. Of course bad players is one reason I play less and less. If you want do in party kills go online and have fun there.
MasterRookie 09-28-05, 03:41 PM	PCs that choose to be enemys aren't necessarilly stupid.