Advice about Point Buy [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advice about Point Buy [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
WTQ_DeadGod
04-23-08, 09:22 PM Hello. I'm going to be starting a new months relatively soon , and I'm going to be using the point buy system for abilities.

My question is, what is a good total to use. I'm considering either 30 or 32, but I'm not sure yet. The campaign in question will start around level 5 and hopefully go at least to the late teens. It will be somewhat high powered, but I intend to try to slightly decrease magic item availability and necessity, especially ability boost items (cloaks of charisma, etc. but NOT tomes or manuals). I'm probably also going to allow a variety of +1 or +2 LA races, so racial boosts could be high.

It would splendid if I good hear what others have tried and how it worked.
iserith
04-23-08, 09:43 PM I've always used 32-point buy in my campaigns and it's never been a problem. If you're limiting ability boost items, you might consider giving then 1 point to assign to their ability scores every three levels instead of every four.

For NPCs, I use anywhere from 25-36 points depending on whether they are a minion or a supervillain.
danielinthewolvesden
04-23-08, 10:00 PM If you are gonna limit magic like that, then go for a higher point buy. Or, if you like odd races, then just say one LA is "free".
Ariakus
04-23-08, 10:25 PM I agree, if you are going to restrict magic items, go for the higher buy, this will give the player a solid 18 or 19 in their key ability without taking negatives elsewhere, at least not too bad.

Incidentally, if you use the Roll 4d6 six times, rerolling ones and dropping the lowest, you will get better scores overall, but take the chance of not getting an 18, and never higher than 18 without racial mod. This method gives high enough stats to give you a small bonus on each, but like I said, a lower chance of a "heroic" stat. You can also rule to roll 4d6, rerolling 1's and dropping the lowest 7 times and choosing the highest 6 to place where they want, I personally like this for lower level adventures as it will give you better survivability through lower levels... but you still chance the loss of the heroic stat.
Etarnon
04-24-08, 12:04 AM I use 25 point buy.
navar100
04-24-08, 02:18 AM Use at least 32 points. Otherwise MAD classes will bite the big one. I think only monk still hurts a bit at 32 points, but it can function well enough.
Tequila_Sunrise
04-24-08, 02:28 AM If you're limiting magic items, no amount of point buy will balance it out. Or to put it differently, a higher point buy will be balanced at early levels but as the PCs advance the high point buy will make less and less difference.

If you want to make up for limited magic items, you need something like my Character Points variant from my Tome of House Rules and Variants (http://lucasbuchanan.com/Dungeons & Dragons) that "makes up" for limited magical items slowly but consistently over all the levels of play.

TS
Kouk
04-24-08, 02:55 AM I prefer 28 personally. If you limit magic noticeably then you should be fine with 32.

People often have expectations of higher numbers than the game rules consider "normal" so they may chafe initially at any point buy value.
Etarnon
04-24-08, 03:45 AM In my game the setting is paramount. I don't care if "MAD Classes suck," nor in having "Equal Class opportunity."

Before X splatbook was in print, many classes didn't exist, so lack of having them in my game didn't affect it, as a campaign.
navar100
04-24-08, 07:49 AM Players may feel differently.

It's the DM's campaign but the players' game too.
LCD2YOU
04-24-08, 08:07 AM PB is not the panacea many here believe. It has it's own issue but I'll use it.

I can make a kick-butt Mage at 25 points but Paladins and Monks suck. The idea that PB "levels the playing field" is only true for same class characters. A 25 PB Paladin is on equal footing with a 25 PB Paladin but are woefully inferior to the said 25 PB Mage.

At 32 to 36 points the playing field does get much more level.

Another way is to give MAD characters, like the Paladin and Monk 2 more points and SAD characters 2 less points to build. You need to have players that aren't going to take advantage of the free points or mechanisms to deal with it in place though.

Edit: Too low points are like too many points: All the characters are going to look pretty much the same.
Dragonsblood
04-24-08, 04:04 PM I like 32PB. It's enough points to allow for some freedom in creating stats without overpowering the characters.

It will be somewhat high powered, but I intend to try to slightly decrease magic item availability and necessity, especially ability boost items (cloaks of charisma, etc. but NOT tomes or manuals).

If you're limiting magic items, you are not running a high powered campaign.
Jaxgaret
04-24-08, 06:12 PM I like 32PB. It's enough points to allow for some freedom in creating stats without overpowering the characters.

I like 36 point buy for the same reasons.

If you're limiting magic items, you are not running a high powered campaign.

That's not necessarily true - it depends on which magic items specifically are being limited.

Also, amount PC wealth correlates to "power of campaign" more closely than almost anything else besides amount of character optimization. Give PCs a lot more gold than WBL, and you will almost certainly have a high powered campaign.
danielinthewolvesden
04-24-08, 09:27 PM If you're limiting magic items, no amount of point buy will balance it out. Or to put it differently, a higher point buy will be balanced at early levels but as the PCs advance the high point buy will make less and less difference.

Which is- IMHO- a GOOD thing. PC's are far too mortal at low levels, and too darn game-breaking powerful (esp full spellcasters) at the high levels.
StevenO
04-24-08, 11:38 PM I've come around to accepting 28 points as normal. If you are limiting magic items then the 30 points should still be enough. If you are seriously going to limit stat improving items I'd consider using the StarWars SAGA stat boosts; it works just like normal except you increase TWO different stats each time you'd normally increase one in DnD.
Draco_Whitewind
04-25-08, 12:37 AM I usually use 32 points. it seems to be enough for MAD classes (Monks, are monks sadly.) I don't see why people talk about the stat items and limiting magic items. I usually use the GP limits for cities as in the book with little alteration for my main campaign setting as well, and I've never seen a problem yet. (even when PCs put a +6 item to a 20 base stat (assuming racial) and are 10th level)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
WTQ_DeadGod 04-23-08, 09:22 PM	Hello. I'm going to be starting a new months relatively soon , and I'm going to be using the point buy system for abilities. My question is, what is a good total to use. I'm considering either 30 or 32, but I'm not sure yet. The campaign in question will start around level 5 and hopefully go at least to the late teens. It will be somewhat high powered, but I intend to try to slightly decrease magic item availability and necessity, especially ability boost items (cloaks of charisma, etc. but NOT tomes or manuals). I'm probably also going to allow a variety of +1 or +2 LA races, so racial boosts could be high. It would splendid if I good hear what others have tried and how it worked.
iserith 04-23-08, 09:43 PM	I've always used 32-point buy in my campaigns and it's never been a problem. If you're limiting ability boost items, you might consider giving then 1 point to assign to their ability scores every three levels instead of every four. For NPCs, I use anywhere from 25-36 points depending on whether they are a minion or a supervillain.
danielinthewolvesden 04-23-08, 10:00 PM	If you are gonna limit magic like that, then go for a higher point buy. Or, if you like odd races, then just say one LA is "free".
Ariakus 04-23-08, 10:25 PM	I agree, if you are going to restrict magic items, go for the higher buy, this will give the player a solid 18 or 19 in their key ability without taking negatives elsewhere, at least not too bad. Incidentally, if you use the Roll 4d6 six times, rerolling ones and dropping the lowest, you will get better scores overall, but take the chance of not getting an 18, and never higher than 18 without racial mod. This method gives high enough stats to give you a small bonus on each, but like I said, a lower chance of a "heroic" stat. You can also rule to roll 4d6, rerolling 1's and dropping the lowest 7 times and choosing the highest 6 to place where they want, I personally like this for lower level adventures as it will give you better survivability through lower levels... but you still chance the loss of the heroic stat.
Etarnon 04-24-08, 12:04 AM	I use 25 point buy.
navar100 04-24-08, 02:18 AM	Use at least 32 points. Otherwise MAD classes will bite the big one. I think only monk still hurts a bit at 32 points, but it can function well enough.
Tequila_Sunrise 04-24-08, 02:28 AM	If you're limiting magic items, no amount of point buy will balance it out. Or to put it differently, a higher point buy will be balanced at early levels but as the PCs advance the high point buy will make less and less difference. If you want to make up for limited magic items, you need something like my Character Points variant from my Tome of House Rules and Variants (http://lucasbuchanan.com/Dungeons & Dragons) that "makes up" for limited magical items slowly but consistently over all the levels of play. TS
Kouk 04-24-08, 02:55 AM	I prefer 28 personally. If you limit magic noticeably then you should be fine with 32. People often have expectations of higher numbers than the game rules consider "normal" so they may chafe initially at any point buy value.
Etarnon 04-24-08, 03:45 AM	In my game the setting is paramount. I don't care if "MAD Classes suck," nor in having "Equal Class opportunity." Before X splatbook was in print, many classes didn't exist, so lack of having them in my game didn't affect it, as a campaign.
navar100 04-24-08, 07:49 AM	Players may feel differently. It's the DM's campaign but the players' game too.
LCD2YOU 04-24-08, 08:07 AM	PB is not the panacea many here believe. It has it's own issue but I'll use it. I can make a kick-butt Mage at 25 points but Paladins and Monks suck. The idea that PB "levels the playing field" is only true for same class characters. A 25 PB Paladin is on equal footing with a 25 PB Paladin but are woefully inferior to the said 25 PB Mage. At 32 to 36 points the playing field does get much more level. Another way is to give MAD characters, like the Paladin and Monk 2 more points and SAD characters 2 less points to build. You need to have players that aren't going to take advantage of the free points or mechanisms to deal with it in place though. Edit: Too low points are like too many points: All the characters are going to look pretty much the same.
Dragonsblood 04-24-08, 04:04 PM	I like 32PB. It's enough points to allow for some freedom in creating stats without overpowering the characters. It will be somewhat high powered, but I intend to try to slightly decrease magic item availability and necessity, especially ability boost items (cloaks of charisma, etc. but NOT tomes or manuals). If you're limiting magic items, you are not running a high powered campaign.
Jaxgaret 04-24-08, 06:12 PM	I like 32PB. It's enough points to allow for some freedom in creating stats without overpowering the characters. I like 36 point buy for the same reasons. If you're limiting magic items, you are not running a high powered campaign. That's not necessarily true - it depends on which magic items specifically are being limited. Also, amount PC wealth correlates to "power of campaign" more closely than almost anything else besides amount of character optimization. Give PCs a lot more gold than WBL, and you will almost certainly have a high powered campaign.
danielinthewolvesden 04-24-08, 09:27 PM	If you're limiting magic items, no amount of point buy will balance it out. Or to put it differently, a higher point buy will be balanced at early levels but as the PCs advance the high point buy will make less and less difference. Which is- IMHO- a GOOD thing. PC's are far too mortal at low levels, and too darn game-breaking powerful (esp full spellcasters) at the high levels.
StevenO 04-24-08, 11:38 PM	I've come around to accepting 28 points as normal. If you are limiting magic items then the 30 points should still be enough. If you are seriously going to limit stat improving items I'd consider using the StarWars SAGA stat boosts; it works just like normal except you increase TWO different stats each time you'd normally increase one in DnD.
Draco_Whitewind 04-25-08, 12:37 AM	I usually use 32 points. it seems to be enough for MAD classes (Monks, are monks sadly.) I don't see why people talk about the stat items and limiting magic items. I usually use the GP limits for cities as in the book with little alteration for my main campaign setting as well, and I've never seen a problem yet. (even when PCs put a +6 item to a 20 base stat (assuming racial) and are 10th level)