Advice for an NPC [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advice for an NPC [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dabriel
06-10-07, 08:42 PM Hey guys, I am in the process of brainstorming up a new campaign. I would love to start at level 1 and progress to the epis levels, but we will see. Anyway, I was thinking of adding in an NPC "mentor". Almost a gandalf like figure that would never really fight, but be there as an "oh crap" type of char. If, for instance, my player's somehow get themselves in too deep, he could help a bit. Just enough to allow them to squeak by the encounter. Also, this char would, in a sense, be my narrator.

Ok, saying all that to get to this. I am thinking of making the char some type of dragon who is pretty much shapeshifted at all times. The PC's would not figure this out until much later (epic). Anyway, any suggestions on a type of dragon? I have skimmed the MM dragons and the silver and gold varieties seem to fit. I have also read a bit about the force dragon, but have not read any about its demeanor. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to flesh out this type of char? Dealing with his lair, gold, alignment? Also, any good suggestions on class? Basically just trying to get some ideas. I don't want to ask my player's for obvious reasons. Anyway, thanks guys.
CroBob
06-10-07, 09:04 PM ... Why would you give a dragon a class? Why wouldn't he simply act the roll of either a Sorcerer or Warrior or both simultaneously? Perhaps a monk. Either way, the dragon wouldn't have a class, he'd simply be a dragon in a different shape. If he has class levels, why not just make him a human or other humanoid? What's the point? Also, why would the mentor not help out all the time? That would be the bigger dilemma. Some father-like figure who's way awesomer, yet let's them get stabbed in front of him and he does nothing until late into the fight? What's his motivation? How does he dismiss the character's anger at him for letting them almost die as he watched without angering them further by it? Why have a mentor that saves them at all? Why not just the kindly old man who lives on the hill and who gives them advice? He can still be a dragon. Why do your characters need to be saved? Would they like to be saved in such a way? Would they like the risk removed?
Kaldric
06-10-07, 09:52 PM This kind of safety-net NPC is a double-edged sword.

The good edge:
It allows you to intervene when the players screw up.

The bad edge:
It allows you to intervene when the players screw up.

Seriously, the reason you've given to introduce this NPC is that he is there to prevent them from ever failing. Once they figure that out, they might lose interest in the campaign.

If there's no risk of failure, there's no feeling of accomplishment. Just a thought.

However, if you want to do it, you're going to do it. I would suggest doing what Greenwood did with Elminster. Basically, he can do whatever he likes whenever he likes, as necessary to further the story. Just make an old man who's unkillable, and can provide your players with whatever you want to provide them with. You don't need to stat him out, because he's a plot device, not an NPC.

If you want to stat him out, use Elminster and give him a different name.
Dabriel
06-10-07, 10:03 PM Yeah you can see I haven't really given too much thought to the idea. As far as him helping out, its more to a point. We have a couple new players and I would like to get them past level 5 at least before they all start to die off. Maybe I could use the NPC in the beginning, then remove him with some storyline. I guess I'd just like some stability for those new players. I will think on it some more.
Kaldric
06-10-07, 10:31 PM We have a couple new players and I would like to get them past level 5 at least before they all start to die off.

I honestly think that under level 5 is the best time to kill them off. They haven't had months to get attached to their character. Getting killed this early lets them know that you play for keeps, while not wasting a ton of their time spent on the character. They'll have the appropriate level of caution and fear later on, when they get above 5th level. By then, if they've lost a few characters, they'll be sweating it when they lose a hit point or two.

The first-hand knowledge that their character can actually DIE, and not be saved at the last moment by the DM, is what makes the players pay attention. If you fail to instill that early on, the players start to either think the game is like a computer game, with infinite lives, or like a movie, where you KNOW the good guys are going to win. It loses something special.
Dabriel
06-10-07, 10:36 PM Hmm good point. Hadn't looked at it from that perspective.
Roivas
06-10-07, 10:50 PM An NPC who follows the players around that can save them from anything brings up more issues than just taking away the feeling of challenge from the party, it takes away an element of control from the players. If you create an NPC who is ancient, wise, and powerful then when they come into a fork in the road of any kind they might ask his advice without taking time to think for themselves. This would make the players reliant on NPCs rather than themselves for their adventurering career. And that would make the game bordering on railroading.
Also consider if the players encounter a puzzle you design. Can you think of a reason for this NPC to ignore the puzzle? What if the party is under a time limit, such as the princess is going to be sacrificied to Nerull at midnight? Don't just consider it from the standpoint of if they become screwed, imagine when they just have normal issues like wrong equipment, want to follow a false lead, or are simply interested in making their own plot for an adventure.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dabriel 06-10-07, 08:42 PM	Hey guys, I am in the process of brainstorming up a new campaign. I would love to start at level 1 and progress to the epis levels, but we will see. Anyway, I was thinking of adding in an NPC "mentor". Almost a gandalf like figure that would never really fight, but be there as an "oh crap" type of char. If, for instance, my player's somehow get themselves in too deep, he could help a bit. Just enough to allow them to squeak by the encounter. Also, this char would, in a sense, be my narrator. Ok, saying all that to get to this. I am thinking of making the char some type of dragon who is pretty much shapeshifted at all times. The PC's would not figure this out until much later (epic). Anyway, any suggestions on a type of dragon? I have skimmed the MM dragons and the silver and gold varieties seem to fit. I have also read a bit about the force dragon, but have not read any about its demeanor. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to flesh out this type of char? Dealing with his lair, gold, alignment? Also, any good suggestions on class? Basically just trying to get some ideas. I don't want to ask my player's for obvious reasons. Anyway, thanks guys.
CroBob 06-10-07, 09:04 PM	... Why would you give a dragon a class? Why wouldn't he simply act the roll of either a Sorcerer or Warrior or both simultaneously? Perhaps a monk. Either way, the dragon wouldn't have a class, he'd simply be a dragon in a different shape. If he has class levels, why not just make him a human or other humanoid? What's the point? Also, why would the mentor not help out all the time? That would be the bigger dilemma. Some father-like figure who's way awesomer, yet let's them get stabbed in front of him and he does nothing until late into the fight? What's his motivation? How does he dismiss the character's anger at him for letting them almost die as he watched without angering them further by it? Why have a mentor that saves them at all? Why not just the kindly old man who lives on the hill and who gives them advice? He can still be a dragon. Why do your characters need to be saved? Would they like to be saved in such a way? Would they like the risk removed?
Kaldric 06-10-07, 09:52 PM	This kind of safety-net NPC is a double-edged sword. The good edge: It allows you to intervene when the players screw up. The bad edge: It allows you to intervene when the players screw up. Seriously, the reason you've given to introduce this NPC is that he is there to prevent them from ever failing. Once they figure that out, they might lose interest in the campaign. If there's no risk of failure, there's no feeling of accomplishment. Just a thought. However, if you want to do it, you're going to do it. I would suggest doing what Greenwood did with Elminster. Basically, he can do whatever he likes whenever he likes, as necessary to further the story. Just make an old man who's unkillable, and can provide your players with whatever you want to provide them with. You don't need to stat him out, because he's a plot device, not an NPC. If you want to stat him out, use Elminster and give him a different name.
Dabriel 06-10-07, 10:03 PM	Yeah you can see I haven't really given too much thought to the idea. As far as him helping out, its more to a point. We have a couple new players and I would like to get them past level 5 at least before they all start to die off. Maybe I could use the NPC in the beginning, then remove him with some storyline. I guess I'd just like some stability for those new players. I will think on it some more.
Kaldric 06-10-07, 10:31 PM	We have a couple new players and I would like to get them past level 5 at least before they all start to die off. I honestly think that under level 5 is the best time to kill them off. They haven't had months to get attached to their character. Getting killed this early lets them know that you play for keeps, while not wasting a ton of their time spent on the character. They'll have the appropriate level of caution and fear later on, when they get above 5th level. By then, if they've lost a few characters, they'll be sweating it when they lose a hit point or two. The first-hand knowledge that their character can actually DIE, and not be saved at the last moment by the DM, is what makes the players pay attention. If you fail to instill that early on, the players start to either think the game is like a computer game, with infinite lives, or like a movie, where you KNOW the good guys are going to win. It loses something special.
Dabriel 06-10-07, 10:36 PM	Hmm good point. Hadn't looked at it from that perspective.
Roivas 06-10-07, 10:50 PM	An NPC who follows the players around that can save them from anything brings up more issues than just taking away the feeling of challenge from the party, it takes away an element of control from the players. If you create an NPC who is ancient, wise, and powerful then when they come into a fork in the road of any kind they might ask his advice without taking time to think for themselves. This would make the players reliant on NPCs rather than themselves for their adventurering career. And that would make the game bordering on railroading. Also consider if the players encounter a puzzle you design. Can you think of a reason for this NPC to ignore the puzzle? What if the party is under a time limit, such as the princess is going to be sacrificied to Nerull at midnight? Don't just consider it from the standpoint of if they become screwed, imagine when they just have normal issues like wrong equipment, want to follow a false lead, or are simply interested in making their own plot for an adventure.