advice for awarding xps [Archive] - Wizards Community

advice for awarding xps [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
bloodtalon
08-11-07, 01:12 PM this happen friday at in my game and i want some advice on how to reward the party

first off the group is 1st level (3) and relies on roleplaying more then combat
the castle they were staying in was over run by a human/hobgoblin alliance. the humans joined up because one of the players would not consent to be the bride of the human's son. while the three were escapeing they ran down a hidden escape tunnel with 12 1st level hobgoblin warriors lead by a 1st level fighter hobgoblin sargent. towards the end of the tunnel there was a room i put in/ in thier first adventure with the group that i forgot about. in the room was some zombies. so the group prop open the door threw in a couple sun rods. off to the side one of them cast silent image spell that looked like part of the wall. the hobgoblins not knowing that the tunnle split off ran into the room where the sun rods and the zombies were. the party then slammed the door trapping the hobgoblins and zombies in there then ran.

so now my problem how to reward that. they did "defeat" the hobgoblin but not threw combat but by being smart and remembering stuff from earlier sessions
the chart says a dozen hobgoblins are worth a 7th C.R.
so would you just count the encounter as a 7th cr or 12 1/2 crs?
if i go with the 7 (one) they would give them 1,300 xps each and with the other encounters would take them from level 1 to level 3 in one game. if i go with the 12 1/2 cr that would give 600 xps each and leave them about half way to level 3.

thanks for any advice ahead of time
Kamin_Majere
08-11-07, 01:39 PM I dont know about you but that action is worth a level even if they did it during an Epic Level game.

I love it when players do things like that :)

I would give them enough for that (plus what ever you give them from RP, if you do that sort of thing) to break into 2nd level. The charts are a guideling for XP awards and sometimes the sheer bollocks or coolness factor of an action deserves more or less.

but i still think its deffinatly worth a level :)
StevenO
08-11-07, 02:26 PM The party "defeated" 12 Hobgoblin Warriors so you award XP for a 1/2CR creature 12 times. For a level 1 party they'd be 150 XP each.

How do you get CR 7? Assuming I looked at the same chart a dozen 1/2 CR creatures makes an Encounter Level (EL) of 5-7. Although they are related CR and EL aren't the same thing, at least not when you start getting into larger numbers of creatures. I'll admit that converting multiple low CR creatures into a CR value equal to the EL can yield the same net XP but you may not calculate the EL correctly or just pick the wrong value. Mixing different CRs into on CR=EL award is definitely not something I recommend.
bloodtalon
08-11-07, 02:54 PM it was encounter level i looked up and got it confused with C.R.
that is how i got 7
so just go by the cr for each.
thanks again
CroBob
08-11-07, 03:01 PM I'm not a fan of levels being attained so quickly. According to the charts, they should have gotten 600 XP each. Even if it was a horrible situation, I don't think they should go from 0 XP to a new level so quickly. Again, this is simply how I prefer my games not how I think everyone should run theirs, but I would arbitrarily rule that the XP is halved. I'm not even going to attempt telling anyone a reason for the halved XP reward besides I want level progression to be slower in general, and over half a level for a single encounter is too much for my tastes. I tend to half XP rewards for any encounter, though. Sometimes quartering them near abouts 8th-13th level, which are my favorite levels. If a single encounter would give someone that much experience (after halving it), it's an encounter that should not have happened except if someone was being stupid (DM (tsk) or PC (there's no reason to disallow people finding themselves in terrible situations due to their own stupidity)).

Edit; Also, the "EL" was about 6, not the "CR". A "CR" is a value assigned to individual creatures.
bloodtalon
08-11-07, 03:13 PM CroBob they did not go from 0 xps to enough to advance
they had 5 other sessions and ended up about 200 points away from advanceing.
i made a mistake in reading E.L. for C.R. and thought since the E.L. was the same thing as C.R. that is why i thought doing the xps for a C.R. 7 instead of 1/2 C.R. 12 times
Eater_Of_Souls
08-11-07, 03:14 PM I'd say if players win because of they figured out something clever such as what OP just described I'd consider giving them the standard xp for the encounter plus a maximum of 20% extra xp as a reward for thinking "out of the box", same should apply when "players think of their own adventures" because of your minor/flavor side advetures.
CroBob
08-11-07, 03:17 PM Perhaps how I worded that was ambiguous. Kamen said they should advance a level for what they did, and that was the point I disagreed with, where I got the "advance a level for it" concept to argue against (albeit a subjective argument to begin with). I find players have more fun if it takes longer to level. They feel more rewarded each time they actually obtain a level. Your players could easily be different. I was simply suggesting to avoid handing out truly significant amounts of XP for single encounters, given the PC's level.
StevenO
08-11-07, 03:28 PM For 1st level characters 600 XP isn't enough to put the characters to second level without XP from someplace else. Twelve CR 1 challenges should almost put FOUR 1st level character into second level so that CR 1/2 creatures should provide three 1st level characters with plenty of XP.
DrMorganes
08-11-07, 03:45 PM The Encounter Calculator (http://www.geocities.com/edymnionii/EPLvsEL.html) breaks the encounter down like this:

Effective Party Level: 0.8
Average Party Level: 1
12 1/2 CR Creatures + 1 CR 1 creature (the sergent) equals an Encounter Level of 5.6
XP awarded is 700xp each

Was the tactic viable? Certainly! 3 Level 1 PCs would have almost certainly been cut down by 13 hobgoblins had they attempted to fight it out. The players did well and deserve to be rewarded for their clever thinking.

Not only that, but they've unwittingly given you a new villain. The one hobgoblin who managed to escape the slaughter at the hands of mindless undead is now hell-bent on avenging the grisley deaths of his companions (hobgoblins are a Lawful bunch). Toss on some class levels and a nifty PrC and :evillaugh
bloodtalon
08-11-07, 04:07 PM [QUOTE=DrMorganes;

Not only that, but they've unwittingly given you a new villain. The one hobgoblin who managed to escape the slaughter at the hands of mindless undead is now hell-bent on avenging the grisley deaths of his companions (hobgoblins are a Lawful bunch). Toss on some class levels and a nifty PrC and :evillaugh[/QUOTE]

thanks DrMorganes
i did not think of using the hobgoblin again
now i have two villians
one a wanna be scorned lover (he wants one of the ladies and she hates him)
2) a hobgoblin who is out or revenge and just wants to hurt them
thanks again
Nom
08-11-07, 07:53 PM For creatures with CR < 1, you calculate fractional XP from a CR 1 creature. So that's CR 1 at level 1 = 300, * 0.5 = 150. 12 creatures thus grants 1800 XP, or 600 XP each for a level 3 party.

As for EL, for creatures with CR < 2 you sum until it reaches 2. So 4 * CR 1/2 = EL 2, which then gives 3 * EL 2 = EL 4 + EL 2 = EL 5. Guess what the XP award for defeating a CR 5 creature is?

As to how much to actually award, you need to consider pacing. If you actually intended the hobgoblins to be defeatable, go ahead and award standard XP. If not, then you need to consider how much of the "threat" they actually faced and defeated - anywhere from 1/2 to full standard XP seems reasonable. At this point, the metagame questions of "how fast do I want my PCs to advance?" and "what sort of XP award precedent am I willing to set?" are more important that the letter of the tables.

I'm curious: how did you expect the PCs to deal with the hobbies? Run, with the hobbies in pursuit? What did you figure was a reasonable award for just getting away from them (a "victory" of sorts)?
bloodtalon
08-12-07, 02:07 PM yes they were suppose just to run down the passage way till they get into the city strreats and get lost in the confusion.
Passivearmada
08-12-07, 03:50 PM Personally, I would bump them up to level 3. I'd do this because my players never do anything like that- it's all hack-and-slash with them. Do you think that they'd not have survived if they battled both groups? If so, then I would award them for being logical and not arrogant, and probably with more experience than they would get for killing them all in a bloody battle.
bloodtalon
08-13-07, 02:13 PM they would of died just against the hobgoblins
the 3 people playing are girls who got fed up with hack-n-slash the other 5 were allways doing and asked for more of a roleplaying game. so i split them up and it took them 6 playing sessions to kill 4 creatures.
as an example in the 4th session we did a b-day party for one of the character who happens to be the niece of the baroness of the country they belong to. it was fun for a little while but they kept on wanting to know what everyone was wearing. who gave her what for presents. think barbie dolls meet dnd. roleplayed out how each of the guest asked one of the ladies to dance. stuff like that.
mtbOgre
08-13-07, 02:29 PM they would of died just against the hobgoblins
the 3 people playing are girls who got fed up with hack-n-slash the other 5 were allways doing and asked for more of a roleplaying game. so i split them up and it took them 6 playing sessions to kill 4 creatures.
as an example in the 4th session we did a b-day party for one of the character who happens to be the niece of the baroness of the country they belong to. it was fun for a little while but they kept on wanting to know what everyone was wearing. who gave her what for presents. think barbie dolls meet dnd. roleplayed out how each of the guest asked one of the ladies to dance. stuff like that.

You can award XP for more things than just killing monsters. Any time the players overcome a significant obstacle you can give them a reward. For example The Vampires Blade has a masquerade ball dance scene where the characters rollplay a big scene trying to figure out who the villain is. When they figure it out they get some XP. In fact since they don't have invitations they get XP just for getting in to the ball.

I don't think I would give XP for RPing unless it got the players closer to their goal though.

Some DMs just skip XP altogether and just advance their players one level every 3-5 gaming sessions.
bloodtalon
08-14-07, 09:40 AM :bump:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bloodtalon 08-11-07, 01:12 PM	this happen friday at in my game and i want some advice on how to reward the party first off the group is 1st level (3) and relies on roleplaying more then combat the castle they were staying in was over run by a human/hobgoblin alliance. the humans joined up because one of the players would not consent to be the bride of the human's son. while the three were escapeing they ran down a hidden escape tunnel with 12 1st level hobgoblin warriors lead by a 1st level fighter hobgoblin sargent. towards the end of the tunnel there was a room i put in/ in thier first adventure with the group that i forgot about. in the room was some zombies. so the group prop open the door threw in a couple sun rods. off to the side one of them cast silent image spell that looked like part of the wall. the hobgoblins not knowing that the tunnle split off ran into the room where the sun rods and the zombies were. the party then slammed the door trapping the hobgoblins and zombies in there then ran. so now my problem how to reward that. they did "defeat" the hobgoblin but not threw combat but by being smart and remembering stuff from earlier sessions the chart says a dozen hobgoblins are worth a 7th C.R. so would you just count the encounter as a 7th cr or 12 1/2 crs? if i go with the 7 (one) they would give them 1,300 xps each and with the other encounters would take them from level 1 to level 3 in one game. if i go with the 12 1/2 cr that would give 600 xps each and leave them about half way to level 3. thanks for any advice ahead of time
Kamin_Majere 08-11-07, 01:39 PM	I dont know about you but that action is worth a level even if they did it during an Epic Level game. I love it when players do things like that :) I would give them enough for that (plus what ever you give them from RP, if you do that sort of thing) to break into 2nd level. The charts are a guideling for XP awards and sometimes the sheer bollocks or coolness factor of an action deserves more or less. but i still think its deffinatly worth a level :)
StevenO 08-11-07, 02:26 PM	The party "defeated" 12 Hobgoblin Warriors so you award XP for a 1/2CR creature 12 times. For a level 1 party they'd be 150 XP each. How do you get CR 7? Assuming I looked at the same chart a dozen 1/2 CR creatures makes an Encounter Level (EL) of 5-7. Although they are related CR and EL aren't the same thing, at least not when you start getting into larger numbers of creatures. I'll admit that converting multiple low CR creatures into a CR value equal to the EL can yield the same net XP but you may not calculate the EL correctly or just pick the wrong value. Mixing different CRs into on CR=EL award is definitely not something I recommend.
bloodtalon 08-11-07, 02:54 PM	it was encounter level i looked up and got it confused with C.R. that is how i got 7 so just go by the cr for each. thanks again
CroBob 08-11-07, 03:01 PM	I'm not a fan of levels being attained so quickly. According to the charts, they should have gotten 600 XP each. Even if it was a horrible situation, I don't think they should go from 0 XP to a new level so quickly. Again, this is simply how I prefer my games not how I think everyone should run theirs, but I would arbitrarily rule that the XP is halved. I'm not even going to attempt telling anyone a reason for the halved XP reward besides I want level progression to be slower in general, and over half a level for a single encounter is too much for my tastes. I tend to half XP rewards for any encounter, though. Sometimes quartering them near abouts 8th-13th level, which are my favorite levels. If a single encounter would give someone that much experience (after halving it), it's an encounter that should not have happened except if someone was being stupid (DM (tsk) or PC (there's no reason to disallow people finding themselves in terrible situations due to their own stupidity)). Edit; Also, the "EL" was about 6, not the "CR". A "CR" is a value assigned to individual creatures.
bloodtalon 08-11-07, 03:13 PM	CroBob they did not go from 0 xps to enough to advance they had 5 other sessions and ended up about 200 points away from advanceing. i made a mistake in reading E.L. for C.R. and thought since the E.L. was the same thing as C.R. that is why i thought doing the xps for a C.R. 7 instead of 1/2 C.R. 12 times
Eater_Of_Souls 08-11-07, 03:14 PM	I'd say if players win because of they figured out something clever such as what OP just described I'd consider giving them the standard xp for the encounter plus a maximum of 20% extra xp as a reward for thinking "out of the box", same should apply when "players think of their own adventures" because of your minor/flavor side advetures.
CroBob 08-11-07, 03:17 PM	Perhaps how I worded that was ambiguous. Kamen said they should advance a level for what they did, and that was the point I disagreed with, where I got the "advance a level for it" concept to argue against (albeit a subjective argument to begin with). I find players have more fun if it takes longer to level. They feel more rewarded each time they actually obtain a level. Your players could easily be different. I was simply suggesting to avoid handing out truly significant amounts of XP for single encounters, given the PC's level.
StevenO 08-11-07, 03:28 PM	For 1st level characters 600 XP isn't enough to put the characters to second level without XP from someplace else. Twelve CR 1 challenges should almost put FOUR 1st level character into second level so that CR 1/2 creatures should provide three 1st level characters with plenty of XP.
DrMorganes 08-11-07, 03:45 PM	The Encounter Calculator (http://www.geocities.com/edymnionii/EPLvsEL.html) breaks the encounter down like this: Effective Party Level: 0.8 Average Party Level: 1 12 1/2 CR Creatures + 1 CR 1 creature (the sergent) equals an Encounter Level of 5.6 XP awarded is 700xp each Was the tactic viable? Certainly! 3 Level 1 PCs would have almost certainly been cut down by 13 hobgoblins had they attempted to fight it out. The players did well and deserve to be rewarded for their clever thinking. Not only that, but they've unwittingly given you a new villain. The one hobgoblin who managed to escape the slaughter at the hands of mindless undead is now hell-bent on avenging the grisley deaths of his companions (hobgoblins are a Lawful bunch). Toss on some class levels and a nifty PrC and :evillaugh
bloodtalon 08-11-07, 04:07 PM	[QUOTE=DrMorganes; Not only that, but they've unwittingly given you a new villain. The one hobgoblin who managed to escape the slaughter at the hands of mindless undead is now hell-bent on avenging the grisley deaths of his companions (hobgoblins are a Lawful bunch). Toss on some class levels and a nifty PrC and :evillaugh[/QUOTE] thanks DrMorganes i did not think of using the hobgoblin again now i have two villians one a wanna be scorned lover (he wants one of the ladies and she hates him) 2) a hobgoblin who is out or revenge and just wants to hurt them thanks again
Nom 08-11-07, 07:53 PM	For creatures with CR < 1, you calculate fractional XP from a CR 1 creature. So that's CR 1 at level 1 = 300, * 0.5 = 150. 12 creatures thus grants 1800 XP, or 600 XP each for a level 3 party. As for EL, for creatures with CR < 2 you sum until it reaches 2. So 4 * CR 1/2 = EL 2, which then gives 3 * EL 2 = EL 4 + EL 2 = EL 5. Guess what the XP award for defeating a CR 5 creature is? As to how much to actually award, you need to consider pacing. If you actually intended the hobgoblins to be defeatable, go ahead and award standard XP. If not, then you need to consider how much of the "threat" they actually faced and defeated - anywhere from 1/2 to full standard XP seems reasonable. At this point, the metagame questions of "how fast do I want my PCs to advance?" and "what sort of XP award precedent am I willing to set?" are more important that the letter of the tables. I'm curious: how did you expect the PCs to deal with the hobbies? Run, with the hobbies in pursuit? What did you figure was a reasonable award for just getting away from them (a "victory" of sorts)?
bloodtalon 08-12-07, 02:07 PM	yes they were suppose just to run down the passage way till they get into the city strreats and get lost in the confusion.
Passivearmada 08-12-07, 03:50 PM	Personally, I would bump them up to level 3. I'd do this because my players never do anything like that- it's all hack-and-slash with them. Do you think that they'd not have survived if they battled both groups? If so, then I would award them for being logical and not arrogant, and probably with more experience than they would get for killing them all in a bloody battle.
bloodtalon 08-13-07, 02:13 PM	they would of died just against the hobgoblins the 3 people playing are girls who got fed up with hack-n-slash the other 5 were allways doing and asked for more of a roleplaying game. so i split them up and it took them 6 playing sessions to kill 4 creatures. as an example in the 4th session we did a b-day party for one of the character who happens to be the niece of the baroness of the country they belong to. it was fun for a little while but they kept on wanting to know what everyone was wearing. who gave her what for presents. think barbie dolls meet dnd. roleplayed out how each of the guest asked one of the ladies to dance. stuff like that.
mtbOgre 08-13-07, 02:29 PM	they would of died just against the hobgoblins the 3 people playing are girls who got fed up with hack-n-slash the other 5 were allways doing and asked for more of a roleplaying game. so i split them up and it took them 6 playing sessions to kill 4 creatures. as an example in the 4th session we did a b-day party for one of the character who happens to be the niece of the baroness of the country they belong to. it was fun for a little while but they kept on wanting to know what everyone was wearing. who gave her what for presents. think barbie dolls meet dnd. roleplayed out how each of the guest asked one of the ladies to dance. stuff like that. You can award XP for more things than just killing monsters. Any time the players overcome a significant obstacle you can give them a reward. For example The Vampires Blade has a masquerade ball dance scene where the characters rollplay a big scene trying to figure out who the villain is. When they figure it out they get some XP. In fact since they don't have invitations they get XP just for getting in to the ball. I don't think I would give XP for RPing unless it got the players closer to their goal though. Some DMs just skip XP altogether and just advance their players one level every 3-5 gaming sessions.
bloodtalon 08-14-07, 09:40 AM	:bump: