Post/Author/DateTime	Post
pukunui 11-06-06, 01:21 AM	Hi folks, Next session, my PCs are going to try to free a mistreated "dancing bear" from its rude and foul-tempered elf handler. If they manage to do it and then get away without him confronting them right away, he's going to follow them and "scare" them in retaliation for them ruining his livelihood. This is the scenario I've got in my head at the moment: The PCs come to an abandoned village just as a fierce thunderstorm descends upon them. The only place that will provide adequate shelter in the village is an old church. Most of its roof has fallen away but the section over the altar is still intact, as are the walls - although the windows and door are long gone. That night, while rain pours heavily down all around them, a sudden flash of lightning reveals a cloaked figure standing in the doorway of the church. The figure is none other than the elf from whom they "liberated" the dancing bear. He's come to frighten them (he doesn't want to kill them outright -- he is lawful, after all ...). Now, I'm hoping he'll turn into a recurring BBEG. He's a LE elf ranger 4 with the stormtouched ability from the DMG2. This gives him an ECL of 11 because he can cast call lightning storm and control weather at CL 5 once per week. Electricity also heals him if he's wounded. So what he's done is called up this thunderstorm so he can sneak up on the PCs and dramatically confront them (it wasn't his plan to have them take shelter in the church, but it works to his advantage). The thing is, I don't really know what he should do/say to threaten them. I'm also thinking of having some random undead creatures (roused by the magical storm) attack the church, driving the BBEG away before either the PCs can kill him or he them. If anyone has any comments, suggestions, advice, and/or questions -- by all means, please post them. I want to know what people think of this idea. If you can help me flesh it out more, too, that would be great. Tips on how to increase the suspense and "spookiness" of the encounter would be most welcome. EDIT: There are 3 PCs - an elf druid 3, a halfling beguiler 3, and a dwarf fighter 3. They are currently traveling as hired mercenaries protecting a half-elf expert 7 (profession: spice merchant). Cheers, pukunui
Torack 11-06-06, 01:34 AM	Well, I wouldn't have any outsider (being anyone other than the PC's) drive him off as that is just cheap. Looking at the scenario, I would have one lightning bolt reveal his presence and a second one reveal him missing, only to get a free attack on one of the PC's. After that, you could opt for a short battle and have something else distract the party (Bluff?) so the ranger can get away. He doesn't necessarily have to move out of the church, he could simply Hide and Move Silently. I do not know that party level, but I suggest you try and make this as short and deadly as possible (i.e. target the arcane caster).
pukunui 11-06-06, 01:40 AM	Thanks, Torack. I just added the PCs' info to my original post (all are level 3). The thing is, with the stormtouched ability, he could ostensibly kill them with his call lightning spell (if I did the math right, he can deal 5d6 damage with a single bolt), so I don't want him to use that ... although I might have him call down a lightning bolt in front of the PCs to scare them or something. I like the idea of having a second flash and having him not be there. I don't really want anyone in the party to die. I just want them to get spooked ... I thought the undead would add to the spooky atmosphere of being in a church at night with a torrential downpour all around you and lightning and this psycho guy hunting you. I need to come up with some excuse for him to leave them (without the stormtouched stuff, he is only one level higher than them, so perhaps if they attack him and get some good hits in, he'll have a very good reason to run away ...). EDIT: They'll be traveling for a few days between when they free the bear and when they arrive at the abandoned village, so the elf will be tracking them the whole way. Perhaps I should have him fire off a random arrow at them or something, just so they know someone's following them, and then the encounter in the church can sort of be a climax rather than an out-of-the-blue thing?
malakaiunseen 11-06-06, 03:34 AM	One book: Heros of Horror. It is soooo neat. It gives great advice for making things really creepy, scary, spooky u name it... I was never a big fan of the horror genre, and didnt really use much spookys stuff. I bought the book on a whim. But I have never regretted it. ITs awesome.
pukunui 11-06-06, 03:45 AM	One book: Heros of Horror. It is soooo neat. It gives great advice for making things really creepy, scary, spooky u name it... I was never a big fan of the horror genre, and didnt really use much spookys stuff. I bought the book on a whim. But I have never regretted it. ITs awesome. Unfortunately, I don't have a hard copy of that book ... ahem ... but I'll see if I can find anything useful in it. Thanks for the suggestion. If it's got tips on how to set the mood, then I'll be jazzed.
malakaiunseen 11-06-06, 04:07 AM	Basically, it has a whole chapter just dealing with how to build the mood. Then another three chapters showing you how to go about keeping the mood for an encounter, an adventure, and a campaign, respectively. Its a great read for someone who wants to scare the PCs without using scary rules to do it...
pukunui 11-06-06, 04:22 AM	I had a quick look through Heroes of Horror. It seems to be aimed more at longer adventures and campaigns rather than just one encounter. Yes, there's the chapter on the "dread encounter", but it still paints things in fairly broad strokes and didn't really have much practical material, that I could see, to go with this particular scenario. Also, I don't know that I want it to be a "horror" encounter. Just a spooky one. Now for a couple of technical questions: 1) The rules in the DMG for storms seem to indicate that wind is a must, but I've lived through plenty of thunderstorms that weren't very windy. Should I just go with the rules for rain? I would think that the rain itself (coupled with the fact that it's dark) would make it hard to see very far ... plus the rain coming down outside will be quite heavy and it'll make quite a racket drumming on the church roof, so there's not really any need for wind to cover up noise ... 2) Will the fact that one of the PCs has darkvision be a problem in this scenario? I'm thinking that he won't really be able to see much beyond the walls of the church anyway because of the rain ... but once the villain is inside the church, he'll have to make hide checks so the dwarf doesn't spot him (I don't think I'll worry about move silently checks because of the noise of the rain on the roof and such). 3) Should I drop the undead thing entirely? Just have the BBEG threaten them somehow and then if they attack and wound him, he'll retreat? What if they don't attack him? He might attack them, but as I said, he doesn't necessarily want to kill them. Just frighten them. Also, if they do manage to drive him off but don't kill him, should I award them XP? If he's going to be a recurring BBEG, then they won't really have defeated him then, will they?
pukunui 11-06-06, 02:34 PM	Last night I got to thinking that with what I've got planned (namely, Red Hand of Doom), there won't be a lot of space for a recurring BBEG. I might just have him attack them and if they kill him, they kill him. If they don't, he'll run away and lick his wounds and not bother them anymore.
malakaiunseen 11-06-06, 09:07 PM	Also, if they do manage to drive him off but don't kill him, should I award them XP? If he's going to be a recurring BBEG, then they won't really have defeated him then, will they? Personally, I always award XP even for just driving someone off like this. I would usually award less than if they'd killed them or tottaly defeated them, but driving them off should still be seen as a kind of success. Otherwise, I found my players to need to aim to engage in combat, because that was the only way to get XP. This way, they can still advance, without having to kill everything they face. Maybe just award half XP.
pukunui 11-06-06, 09:34 PM	Personally, I always award XP even for just driving someone off like this. I would usually award less than if they'd killed them or tottaly defeated them, but driving them off should still be seen as a kind of success. Otherwise, I found my players to need to aim to engage in combat, because that was the only way to get XP. This way, they can still advance, without having to kill everything they face. Maybe just award half XP. That's what I'd be inclined to do. It's just that some people on these boards are of the opinion that you shouldn't award any XP unless the bad guy is well and truly defeated and the PCs won't ever have to face him again. To add some creepiness, I thought I'd have them make the occasional spot check and have them see a shape darting behind a tree or some such thing -- so they know something is following them. Then, when they get into the abandoned village and the storm is brewing on the horizon, they'll hear strange noises and stuff that'll turn out to just be shutters creaking and banging and the wind howling through the abandoned buildings and such. How does that sound?
Dash Branaghan 11-06-06, 10:26 PM	The first thing is make the PCs constantly make rolls. Have the storm come up on them as they travel, like you planned, but have them start making random spot checks. Couple it with, "You see nothing" or "You think you saw movement, but at second look, it appears to be the leaves moving in the wind." I know this works to build up anticipation in my PCs...in fact, it gets them downright jumpy. Especially when they see a humanoid figure in the cornfield outside of town moving...have them chase down a scarecrow. Again, heightens the mood. Is the bear coming with them? Have the bear stop every now and again and look behind it. I'm sure the druid would pick up on that. Implement music. Nothing like theme music from such films as The Shining, Halloween, and the Exorcist to name a few...and I think you can find those on the net. Now, that is the build up. I really like the lightning flash and vanishing bit, but yes, the darkvision dwarf will be able to see, though you can arguably get around that with lightning strikes...sudden flashes of light tend to blind people...so they can see him in one of the distant flashes, then have a near flash that blinds the party while he escapes. And of course, for a twist...when the party is asleep, have him kill the bear and leave the bear's head in one of the PCs bedrolls. *chuckle* Why not keep him around as a recurring character? There may always be a chance for a rematch...just my two bits there. Dash
pukunui 11-06-06, 10:55 PM	The first thing is make the PCs constantly make rolls. Have the storm come up on them as they travel, like you planned, but have them start making random spot checks. Couple it with, "You see nothing" or "You think you saw movement, but at second look, it appears to be the leaves moving in the wind."Yes! That's the sort of thing I was thinking of with the creaky window shutters banging in the abandoned village and the like ... I know this works to build up anticipation in my PCs...in fact, it gets them downright jumpy. Especially when they see a humanoid figure in the cornfield outside of town moving...have them chase down a scarecrow. Again, heightens the mood.Hmm ... there could be a "scarecrow" still out in one of the abandoned fields. Either a proper scarecrow or something more sinister ... Is the bear coming with them? Have the bear stop every now and again and look behind it. I'm sure the druid would pick up on that.That's a good question. They haven't rescued the bear yet, and I don't know what they plan to do with it once they do. They'll probably just let it go free. Now, that is the build up. I really like the lightning flash and vanishing bit, but yes, the darkvision dwarf will be able to see, though you can arguably get around that with lightning strikes...sudden flashes of light tend to blind people...so they can see him in one of the distant flashes, then have a near flash that blinds the party while he escapes.Since the stormtouched ability grants the BBEG call lightning storm, he could quite easily kill all the PCs as each lightning bolt does 5d10 damage and he can call 15 of them. What I was thinking of doing is having him call one bolt down right in front of the PCs to scare them ... that would certainly affect the dwarf's darkvision. I will also have the BBEG make a hide check as soon as he enters the church. And of course, for a twist...when the party is asleep, have him kill the bear and leave the bear's head in one of the PCs bedrolls. *chuckle*LOL Why not keep him around as a recurring character? There may always be a chance for a rematch...just my two bits there.I'm still thinking about it. Red Hand of Doom is supposed to be for levels 5-10 ... I haven't thought about what will happen afterwards, but I wouldn't really want him to interfere too much during the events of RHoD because of their "time is of the essence" nature. But he could certainly lie low for a while and then come back when they're all higher level and they've forgotten all about him ...
Ruslanchik 11-06-06, 11:13 PM	I think you should have the ranger cast call lightning on the roof, forcing the PCs to scatter in order to avoid the falling rubble, possibly trapping some and wounding others, and exposing them to the rain. Since this is an intense storm it should limit sight to 10' or less and the sound of the rain and frequent thunderclaps should limit hearing just as much. Don't allow your players to use miniatures so if any of them fall out of range of each other they will have no idea what is going on with the others. Then, the ranger can move around the group, striking individuals at will...put some space between his attacks, letting the characters flail around in search for him. Then, when he finally leaves (btw, not wanting to kill them is motivation enough for him to leave) they will still be wary. Forcing the players to act on a round by round basis will also add to the tension, I think.
pukunui 11-06-06, 11:30 PM	I think you should have the ranger cast call lightning on the roof, forcing the PCs to scatter in order to avoid the falling rubble, possibly trapping some and wounding others, and exposing them to the rain. Since this is an intense storm it should limit sight to 10' or less and the sound of the rain and frequent thunderclaps should limit hearing just as much. Don't allow your players to use miniatures so if any of them fall out of range of each other they will have no idea what is going on with the others. Then, the ranger can move around the group, striking individuals at will...put some space between his attacks, letting the characters flail around in search for him. Then, when he finally leaves (btw, not wanting to kill them is motivation enough for him to leave) they will still be wary. Forcing the players to act on a round by round basis will also add to the tension, I think. Those are some interesting ideas. Thanks, Ruslanchik.
pukunui 11-07-06, 02:05 AM	OK, so I still don't really know what the BBEG should say, if anything, when he confronts the PCs. "You stole my bear!" just doesn't have the right tone to it ... Do you think it would be scarier if he just doesn't say anything at all? Here's a little bit about him: Taeghen is slim and wiry from years spent living as a hunter and a wandering entertainer. He has short-cropped blond hair and cold green eyes. His skin is tanned and leathery. Although largely law-abiding, Taeghen comes across to most as rude and foul-tempered. He is a miserable loner, a misanthrope and a bully, who takes his frustrations out on animals. EDIT: Also, as a 4th level ranger with a 12 WIS, he can cast 1 1st-lvl spell per day. He normally prepares and uses calm animals on his dancing bear ... but he'll undoubtedly prepare something else before confronting the PCs. Any suggestions? Camouflage? Guided shot? Arrow mind?
CryoSilver 11-07-06, 03:27 AM	I've said it before, and I'll say it now: the tone you use is vital. Delivery is what makes horror scary. You should describe everything in a different tone than you use for non-spooky encounters. What I fid works well is a deadpan voice, inflected when you want to emphasize something. Trust me, your players will investigate EVERYTHING you inflect if you do it right. It puts them on edge. Want to really freak em out? When the first lightning bolt comes down SLAM both your palms flat on the table. It will make them jump. Switch to a faster more forceful tone; put pressure on them now. Make them feel hunted. They'll forget that they're poweful heroes, because you're scaring the PLAYERS more than the PCs.
pukunui 11-07-06, 03:39 AM	Thanks, Cryo. I'll do my best. I like the slamming my hands down for the lightning bolt. That should be good. Hey, I just had another idea to "make them feel hunted". They'll be spending two nights on the road before arriving in the abandoned village (which is at a crossroads, I might add, not that it changes anything really). What if I add stuff like -- "When you wake up in the morning, you find an arrow protruding from the ground near your head. You have no idea how it got there." The only problem is that my players will want to know why I didn't let them make Spot/Listen checks. I suppose I could always tell them I rolled the checks for them ... that's the problem with all this suspense stuff - at least with my players. They want to make Spot/Listen checks all the time, so they'll get upset if I just make something happen in the night without at least giving them the chance to wake up and catch the bad guy in the act. If I were to let them roll, and they rolled really well, and the BBEG rolled really poorly, then that would ruin the whole thing ... Hmm. Any thoughts on that? Please - any thoughts on what the BBEG should do/say when he finally confronts them in the church? All I can think of are somewhat hokey or cliched lines along the lines of "This is what happens when you mess with me!"; "I'm gonna make your lives miserable!"; "You stole my bear, now I want revenge!" etc etc.
CryoSilver 11-07-06, 04:22 AM	Don't make the hunted thing as obvious as an arrow by their head. Make them LOOK for it. Maybe there are some marks on a tree branch that boot-nails might have left. Maybe there is a thread from what may be a cloak. Stuff like that makes it all the spookier, because it gives no indication of the tactics or abilities of their hunter. If they know their foe may use a bow, they'll think "Wind Wall." If all they know is that they're being watched, they'll think "We can't let our guard down or SOMETHING will get us."
Ruslanchik 11-07-06, 10:34 AM	Assuming that you take my above advice about limiting their senses, you should not SAY aything. Instead, write out post-its in advance with things he will say when attacking. Tell X PC, who is trapped under a ceiling beam that s/he takes 10 hp dmamge (after succeeding an attack roll, of course) from an unseen source, then hears (hand over one note and do not allow the players to share the content until the encounter is over). When the PC turns around to see who said it, the ranger is gone. The thing is, WHAT is said isn't as important as HOW it's said. I think that keeping everyone in suspense about what is being said to the thers will definitely add tension. I think you're on the right track with the stuff you have above. It would be good to emphasize the PCs relative weakness, too. "There's nothing you an do to stop me." "I can follow you forever." "You'll never know when I'll strike next." Or even a simple, "watch your back." I would not have him say anything some specific that it clearly identifies their attacker. They should have to guess. They'll probably catch on pretty quickly, but maybe it was a ghost living in the abandoned village, or an evil druid whose territory they crossed without permission. Having any locals they come across on their journey act spooked and suspicious will also lead the party to believe there is someone else after them, someone that having met yet. What's more spooky than having no idea what is hunting you?
pukunui 11-07-06, 02:18 PM	Thanks guys. All good ideas, definitely. I thought about it some more last night -- and I think I might delay the encounter a bit so I can have more time to freak them out before the confrontation. So this is what I'm thinking ... Although the abandoned village will stay where it is (about 1-2 days' journey from the village the PCs are in now), I won't have the elf ranger attack them there. Instead I'll only start giving them clues that they're being followed once they get to the ruins. Then, they'll get daily clues that something is following them all the way to the next village, but he won't attack them there either (and I've got a side quest to offer them there, as well, during which the elf ranger will lay low). Then, when they're back on the home stretch, they'll pass by an abandoned church/shrine by the roadside. It will be the only building for miles around, so when the storm strikes ... A few things to mention: 1) Doing it this way could mislead the players into thinking something from the abandoned village is following them and not the elf ranger. 2) The sidequest (the free 3rd-lvl adventure "Dry Spell") should give them enough XP to reach level 4, which would put them on a par with the elf ranger. I think I'll put him up to level 5. 3) I'll be starting RHoD once the heroes get close to reaching level 5 themselves, and I wasn't entirely sure what I was going to do with them between "Dry Spell" and the start of RHoD. By delaying their climactic encounter with the elf ranger until they're already at level 4, I'll be filling this gap. 4) Another good reason for delaying this encounter is that by giving the PCs one more level's worth of hit points, they'll have a better chance of surviving magical lightning bolts and ceilings falling on their heads and the like. 5) It gives me more time to plan this encounter (next session is tomorrow night). Ruslanchik - are there rules in the DMG for falling rubble? I can't remember. How much damage would you have it do? 1d6 or something? Reflex save for half or none?
CryoSilver 11-07-06, 03:51 PM	One other thing I've found works well (maybe not in this context) is when nothing happens. The PCs travel for days on end, and they see no other living creatures in an area that should be full of life, like a forest.
Ruslanchik 11-07-06, 03:59 PM	Pg. 66 of the DMG has some rules about dungeon cave-ins, but the damage listed is way too high for your purposes (8d6 maximum). I would personally be more interested in getting one or two of them trapped underneath the rumble than seriously injuring them. Maybe a DC 20 reflex save against 1d6 or 1d8 damage, failure by 3 or more means they are trapped under something, failure by 5 or more means they are buried--successful save negates damage. The DMG says that characters take 1d6 damage per round if they are buried under rubble. Again, that damage might be a little high, but 1d4 per round to anyone who is buried might add a little more tension to the situation. It seems to me that the damage is secondary, though. If you are manufacturing this encounter to scare the players you are taking a little bit of control out of their hands--if they could just overwhelm the ranger and kill him it wouldn't really be scary--so I wouldn't make the situation too deadly. Your players would feel cheated if one or more of them died and didn't really have a chance to react... This sounds like it will be a lot of fun. Your players should definitely enjoy the encounter.
pukunui 11-07-06, 04:08 PM	Yeah, I agree. I certainly wouldn't want any of the players to be killed by the roof collapsing. It should just give them cause for concern and provide obstacles to communication and create rough terrain and such. The rubble would mostly be timber from the roof, so it might not even be all that lethal (except if it's splintered into sharp bits ... maybe just 1d4 dmg for that and a successful reflex save negates it?). Come to think of it ... the timber will be soaked from the rain, but even so, do you think it would catch on fire after being hit by a lightning bolt (and a magical one at that)? Having burning timber falling on the PCs might be even more terrifying than just regular timber.
CryoSilver 11-07-06, 05:40 PM	Maybe not, but how about timbers with maggots in them? People hate maggots.
pukunui 11-07-06, 05:45 PM	Maybe not, but how about timbers with maggots in them? People hate maggots. Dire maggots?
CryoSilver 11-07-06, 05:46 PM	Zombie robot dire maggots.
pukunui 11-07-06, 05:52 PM	Zombie robot dire maggots. LOL. So no burning timber ... but maggot-ridden timber could work. :plotting: I'm still thinking of having some undead or something in the abandoned village. And if I move the showdown with the elf ranger till later, then having something else attack them in the ruins will give them even more cause to think they're being stalked by something other than the ranger. I shall consult my flash new leatherbound special edition Monster Manual to see what I can throw at them in the ruins. I had originally got the abandoned village idea from the Vicious Venues article of the same name, but none of the critters in that article are really all that appropriate or interesting to me. I'll have something else attack them. Animated window shutters anyone? ;) I know that would freak the hell out of me ... DM: "You hear a creaking noise then a loud bang!" Players: "What was that?! Do we see anything?!" DM: "You turn to look behind you and realize it was just a loose shutter on one of the old houses banging against the wall." Players: "Whew!" DM: "But then all of a sudden the shutter twists in a way that wood shouldn't and opens its mouth, bearing two rows of long, sharp teeth, before launching itself at you hungrily!" Players: "Aaaaaahh!!!" EDIT: Alternatively, the window shutters could be a red herring and the real threat could be the aforementioned scarecrow. I might make it a ghast that's just pretending to be a scarecrow. Then when I have the window shutters bang into the wall and the players make Spot checks, I'll tell those who've succeeded that they think they see movement and that they notice that the scarecrow is gone ... :evillaugh
Nimbus 11-07-06, 07:16 PM	Then when I have the window shutters bang into the wall and the players make Spot checks, I'll tell those who've succeeded that they think they see movement and that they notice that the scarecrow is gone ... :evillaugh The name "Unlucky Charlie" springs to mind. Try and make the feel as atmospheric as possible. Put emphasis on the light, the shadows, perhaps the wind is a bit chillier than it should be. I would say to avoid unecessary rolls, or, if you feel them necessary, make the rolls yourself and pass the player a note saying what they spotted or heard but not what caused it. This means they will automatically know something bad the other PC's don't know and the way they react will add to the atmosphere. It's the little things that count.
pukunui 11-07-06, 07:48 PM	The name "Unlucky Charlie" springs to mind.I don't know the reference ... sorry. Try and make the feel as atmospheric as possible. Put emphasis on the light, the shadows, perhaps the wind is a bit chillier than it should be. I would say to avoid unecessary rolls, or, if you feel them necessary, make the rolls yourself and pass the player a note saying what they spotted or heard but not what caused it. This means they will automatically know something bad the other PC's don't know and the way they react will add to the atmosphere.Yes, I really like the idea of handing out notes to players to keep things secret. Both Ruslanchik and you have definitely got something there. Regarding rolling Spot/Listen checks: sometimes it feels like my players are constantly asking me if they can make one or the other check, if not both. They especially don't want to feel left out of the action when their characters are sleeping, so they always want to make Listen checks then too, even if I'm trying to just do something for the one who's awake and on watch. I think from now on I will roll the Listen checks for any sleeping PCs to see if they get woken up. The point I'm trying to get at, though, is that it seems like a few bad rolls of the dice (or good rolls on the players' part) could spell disaster for any suspenseful encounter I'm trying to set up ... I don't want my players to feel frustrated and powerless to do anything, but at the same time I feel like sometimes the dice are more of an obstacle than an aid -- especially when it comes to the storytelling aspect of the game. It's the little things that count.Definitely.
Deacon Liadon 11-07-06, 08:25 PM	I don't know the reference ... sorry. I was referring to a scarecrow by that name in Terry Pratchett's Discworld series. Regarding rolling Spot/Listen checks: sometimes it feels like my players are constantly asking me if they can make one or the other check, if not both. They especially don't want to feel left out of the action when their characters are sleeping, so they always want to make Listen checks then too, even if I'm trying to just do something for the one who's awake and on watch. I think from now on I will roll the Listen checks for any sleeping PCs to see if they get woken up. It's at a -10 penalty if I recall correctly. And it may not be the sounds of battle waking them up. Perhaps an owl is hooting in the woods nearby, or a cat yowling in the street outside. The point I'm trying to get at, though, is that it seems like a few bad rolls of the dice (or good rolls on the players' part) could spell disaster for any suspenseful encounter I'm trying to set up ... I don't want my players to feel frustrated and powerless to do anything, but at the same time I feel like sometimes the dice are more of an obstacle than an aid -- especially when it comes to the storytelling aspect of the game. That's where the DM's secret rolls come in. If it's a bad roll then you fudge it to provide the answer you desire. I do alot of my DMing off the cuff and I generally keep a d20 beside me just as an aid to working out what happens next.
pukunui 11-07-06, 08:40 PM	Deacon, are you the same person as Nimbus? Yeah, they get a -10 penalty to Listen checks if they're asleep. Like I said before, though, I'm going to start making those Listen checks for them. The two times that it has come up have been when the halfling beguiler in the group is trying to sneak around in the camp and getting up to no good -- but I still think I should make the rolls because it's not like the PCs are trying to hear something in their sleep, even if their players might want it to be that way ... As for fudging it ... yeah, that's what I was getting at. I'm just a bit concerned my players will get upset if I do a lot of rolls for them.
Deacon Liadon 11-07-06, 08:46 PM	Deacon, are you the same person as Nimbus? Yes, I was logged in as him for the purpose of posting on a different board. As for fudging it ... yeah, that's what I was getting at. I'm just a bit concerned my players will get upset if I do a lot of rolls for them. Let them make the important, plot advancement rolls, the occasional one to spot and ambush, that sort of thing. Roll the more atmospheric and less plot-crucial ones yourself.
pukunui 11-07-06, 09:09 PM	Yes, I was logged in as him for the purpose of posting on a different board.Ah. Let them make the important, plot advancement rolls, the occasional one to spot and ambush, that sort of thing. Roll the more atmospheric and less plot-crucial ones yourself.Sounds good. Thanks, mate. :)
pukunui 11-08-06, 09:51 PM	OK so I'm going to ambush the PCs with 2 ghouls and 1 ghast in the abandoned village (instead of the elf ranger - who will confront them later on, sometime after they've reached 4th level). Would it be too mean of me to have the undead attack the PCs during the night, when all but one of them will be asleep (and therefore not in their armor)? They're a party of 3 3rd-level PCs, and the undead make for an EL 4 encounter. Should I be nice and have the undead attack when the PCs are still up and armored instead? The thing is, on the one hand, the dwarf fighter in the group already has a reputation for being a one-hit killer with his Power Attack and mwk greataxe combo (one of his insta-kill victims was an dwarf-sized ghoul), so I'm not too worried about the encounter being too difficult ... but on the other hand, he's just had a captured suit of full plate armor resized to fit him, and by doing what I think the undead would do, I'd be denying him the use of his new armor.
Dash Branaghan 11-09-06, 12:39 AM	Well, if you do it while they sleep, then you are looking at a potential TPK. If the one awake character is hit and paralyzed by your undead, then that's sayonara to the rest of the party, especially if the lack of light and the sound of the storm prohibit sound checks. What might be an interesting spin on the undead is to run with your original idea of the elf ranger and have the party concerned (remember, you can sleep in armour, you just have penalties...sometimes acceptable penalties if the armour takes a long time to put on). When the elf ranger brings on the storm, a lightning strike outside the church (the one that reveals his presence inside the church) strikes a number of graves with zombie like results. Then you get a "Night of the Living Dead" type encounter...they can attempt to board up the doors of the church to keep them out, stack crap against the windows to keep them from coming in, and as the zombies break through, the ghast pops up from the basement and attempts to sneak up on them. The elf ranger of course is long gone because fightining undead is unnecessary to him and they might take out the PCs...assuming the PCs win, he has the perfect excuse to return and square things up with the players. Dash
pukunui 11-09-06, 05:18 AM	Dash - that was sort of my original idea. However, I just got home from the session, so your advice is a bit too late. Sorry. It didn't play out exactly as I had intended, but basically the ghast and his two ghoul buddies were down in the crypt, and there were two people on watch at any time, and at one point they heard the undead talking through the floor, so they went and investigated and there was a fight and they eventually managed to kill all three creatures without any of the party members going down (although the dwarf fighter did get paralyzed for 3 rounds - and even though that's technically only 9 seconds, it feels like an eternity in a turn-based game). I made a few descriptive mistakes -- the ghast was originally posing as a scarecrow and got into the fortress-shrine before the PCs went in and hid in the crypt, but then I went and told them that the trap door into the crypt was covered by rubble. Oops. This should work out in my favor though, as they currently still think there's something outside, and so when I start giving them clues that something's following them, they'll think it was the "scarecrow" instead of the elf ranger. Unfortunately, two of the PCs have been infected with ghoul fever but they don't know that yet so we'll see what happens there. They won't find out until a day has passed. I'll have to read up on it and make sure this doesn't mean the end of those two PCs.