Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Crusader_of_Light 01-08-07, 02:48 PM	I have the same problems come up in every campaign I run and I would like advice on how to deal with them. #1 My players NEVER try to get party members raised from the dead. They would rather create a new character and let the party pillage the body. They do this no matter what alignments that they have decided to play. #2 How can I stop power gamers. They are always unbalancing the party. #3 My players won't play there alignments or they try to justify their actions based on what there alignment says in the PHB. How can I get them to play true to their alignments? #4 One of my players is a rule lawyer. He always makes sure the rules are followed to a T even when he is suppose to be in character. #5 A few of my players WILL NOT EVEN TRY TO ROLE-PLAY their characters. This is a big problem that needs to be addressed. Any help on these matters will be appreciated.
Stumm_Dolch 01-08-07, 03:04 PM	#3 My players won't play there alignments or they try to justify their actions based on what there alignment says in the PHB. How can I get them to play true to their alignments? This one is the easiest to correct. Their alignments do not dictate how they will act. How they act Does dictate their alignment... it is fluid. You change their alignment to reflect how they behave. But do it slowly unless they have a major shift in behavior. If their cleric begins justifying murder citing religious reasons he's slipping to evil and risks losing his [good] spells.
Burner2501 01-08-07, 03:11 PM	This one is the easiest to correct. Their alignments do not dictate how they will act. How they act Does dictate their alignment... it is fluid. You change their alignment to reflect how they behave. But do it slowly unless they have a major shift in behavior. If their cleric begins justifying murder citing religious reasons he's slipping to evil and risks losing his [good] spells. That should also have effects on the other problems you have. When they realize that alignment changes because of their actions they will start to be more conscious of why they do things and that can lead to a little more role-playing. What I have done for power gamers is I have a rule that anytime someone makes a character they have to go by DM approval first. Along with that, so they don't go through a ton of work making a character that will not pass muster, I will have a defined list of allowed books, and other items (articles and what-not), that they can use. It helps with the power gamers but it also helps make them a little more creative in how they go about making a character that is fun to play and fun for everyone to interact with.
Stumm_Dolch 01-08-07, 03:13 PM	In regards to question #1: Alot of character death actually is an effort of the player to end that character (whether you know it or not) because they are bored with it, or want to try something new. If this is the case the group will be better off if you allow a new character. Sometimes if a character dies in a fashion suitible for that character to accept the oncoming afterlife (Such as in valiant defense of his comrades, or in the course of an epic battle) they may consider their death as "their time" to go. Don't rob the player of a satisfactory ending of a beloved PC. Maybe they don't want to pay the price of resurrection. Ask your group they'll probably tell you why they do this.
Falln 01-08-07, 03:14 PM	1> If players don't like raise dead spells, then you're a lucky DM :-) Keep dead special in your campaign. Someone who's being brought back to life is something very special and only the most important persons get this honour. BUT don't kill players that often, otherwise your campaign will have problems with the bigger story. 2> powergamers? do you mean min/maxers who put everything into one skill and ignore everything else? Like a fighter with lots of hitpoints, a very high attack bonus, all combat feats and all skill points put in stuff that helps him in combat? Try to use as much possible skills in your adventures as possible. Use the environment as your friend. What is that fighter with his two handed sword has to fight in a very small space? What if the stupid guy is the only one left to answer a riddle? what if the ugly dude needs to negotiate with the king? 3> The worst players are the ones who write CN on the sheet and say they can do whatever they want. Try to keep the player alignments close to each other. We have a system that says: alignments can be only 1 different form the average party member. If this is CG, then CN, CG, NG are good alignments to fit in this party. A part of roleplaying is to play the alignment. You can ask players why they play stuff the way they play it and reward good alignment playing in more XP. It would help if you gave an example what they write down as alignment and how they play it. 4> I hate rule lawyers. You are DM, you say which rules are played with and which aren't. It's good to allow all rules from the Players manual. You are the only one who can use the DMG when you DM. If someone brings other rules to the table from other books, then don't accept them. You chose which books you play with and which you don't use. Youcan even use only 1 rule from a book and don't use everything else in it. Also remember that the players DON'T see what the DM rolls. if an opponent needs to roll 3x20 in row to kill a NPC for the story to continue, then that "lucky" bad guy will succeed. Or he can have poison on his weapon, the NPC could have a weak spot on his back that the villain knew about, ... If the player says: The villain can't hit "Lord Duglas" since the lord has that kind of armor, these spells on him, ... blablabla ... then you can say: but you're character doesn't know that the big evil guy has bought a magic arrow ... coated with poison X ... and the villain can be an arcane archer. Players don't know what the DM knows, so most of the time they can't complain if things can happen or not. IF on the other hand the players say stuff like: I think a charge attack does ... flanking works like ... Then it's maybe better that he aids a bit. Or you should read the basic rules better. 5> This can be a problem, especially when you have some players who don't talk that much. We also have a listener. We like it when he's there, but he doesn't say much at all. Don't punish these kind of players. The other bad roleplayers are the ones who can't roleplay. The stupid fighter who has strength, constitution and dexterity, but now charisma, wisdom, intelligence and he manages to answer most of the riddles, does all the talking for the group, ... 2 ways to act on this: tell him: sorry your character is to stupid, ugly, ... you can't help the others. Or make what he does fail based on his character skills. It's not because the player knows what to do the character can do the same. Other way is: next time he levels let him put one stat or some skill points in stuff he used, but didn't have. If the fighter negotiates a lot, next time he's allowed to put one stat, his charisma suddenly rises.
Animae_Draconum 01-08-07, 03:32 PM	#1 My players NEVER try to get party members raised from the dead. They would rather create a new character and let the party pillage the body. They do this no matter what alignments that they have decided to play. This is a players choice and represents a chaotic shift in alignment for those looting. You may not be able to tell them they cant make a new character but try forcing then to play anything other than an exact duplicate of the previous character. #2 How can I stop power gamers. They are always unbalancing the party. Use DM Rule 0(the right to say no), you are the DM and you decide what goes in your campaign. Limit sources. You cant possibly even hope to have balance with no limiting factors, and I doubt raising CR's would do anything short of a TPK because not everyone is a tier 1 optimizer. #3 My players won't play there alignments or they try to justify their actions based on what there alignment says in the PHB. How can I get them to play true to their alignments? Let the players play how they want to play it but tell them when their alignment shifts, the character is unaware of alignment. If you dotn want evil acts to happen tell them that and if they shift to evil then ask them to hand over the character sheet. In non-evil campaigns playing an evil character instantly makes said character an NPC. Feel free to use them as a lackey for the BBEG. #4 One of my players is a rule lawyer. He always makes sure the rules are followed to a T even when he is suppose to be in character. How is this a problem? Going out of character to correct play mistakes of other is never wrong, if you want somthing to work differently than standard D&D, house rule it. #5 A few of my players WILL NOT EVEN TRY TO ROLE-PLAY their characters. This is a big problem that needs to be addressed. Roleplaying is not for everyone, its a personal preference and some just arent comfortable with it, if a player doesnt want to do it then dont make them, if you really want proper roleplaying in your games then tell them that so they can make a minimal effort or find a new group. Being a DM is a big responsibility and gives you a great deal of power over the players but you have to be flexible with them and there has to be a mutual respect for each other. Players cant play without a DM, but you cant be a DM without players.
Damren 01-09-07, 12:41 AM	#1 My players NEVER try to get party members raised from the dead. They would rather create a new character and let the party pillage the body. I don't see any real problem with this as long as you compensate for it in your plot designs. One of the things to consider is making sure items have the potential to take damage just like the dead PCs. If you don't already, you could ask that game time not be wasted by rolling up characters. If the players want to do this, have them roll up and have back-up characters approved ahead of time. If you can pull players into the story and give their characters value to them, they may grow a tendency to keep them alive or have them restored. Another method is to not kill them as often. If the circumstances are obviously lethal, then so be it. But, if not, give them Stat damage in addition to hit point damage and draw out the healing process. So, a fireball can cause HP as well as CON, DEX & CHA damage. It would be a house rule that your 'lawyer' will hate - but, it's your rule. If you don't want to try the alternate damage rule, just don't kill them as often & make healing magic rarer as the game progresses. Keep the low level spells, but make the higher ones rarer. #2 How can I stop power gamers. They are always unbalancing the party. Limit what's available and approve what goes into your game. Just because rules & items exist doesn't mean they all have to be crammed into your game. Create stories and situations that require something other than power gaming. Get your players more interested in the story by introducing mystery and plot points that require a little thinking rather than dice rolling. #3 My players won't play there alignments or they try to justify their actions based on what there alignment says in the PHB. How can I get them to play true to their alignments? Try dealing with alignments in 'game terms' and not 'meta-game terms'. Introduce codes of conduct. Laws of the land. Charisma affects and loyalty. Give actions consequences. You don't give them the opportunity to argue rules as you're dealing with the issue in terms of plot and story and not rules. #4 One of my players is a rule lawyer. He always makes sure the rules are followed to a T even when he is suppose to be in character. This can be good & it can be bad. The player needs to understand that ultimately, they're your rules. But, players who have a good familiarity with the rules can be an excellent resource for you in dealing with rules questions. Be fair enough to listen, but try to note down rules issues and push the discussion to the end of the session so as not to disrupt the game. As long as your basic ruling is fair, he shouldn't have a problem with it. If he does. Maybe it's time for him to walk. #5 A few of my players WILL NOT EVEN TRY TO ROLE-PLAY their characters. This is a big problem that needs to be addressed. Tell your story and try to pull them in. Make sure all the PCs have background that you can build on and create interesting details to your plots that players can identify with. Try to act out your NPCs and speak to your players using their character names during play. Talk to players about their characters and try to get them to use skills in creative ways. Not everyone will do this well & it may take time, but if you have dedicated players - you should make progress.
Free1983 01-09-07, 08:36 AM	#1 My players NEVER try to get party members raised from the dead. They would rather create a new character and let the party pillage the body. They do this no matter what alignments that they have decided to play. It looks like you have a lot of party deaths as this is a problem in your game. How do your players get killed. Are they just acting plain stupid? Are they fond of memorable deaths? Or do you put a very challenging encounter in every game. I'm not saying this is your fault, just saying it could. If you don't give the chance to your players to bond with their character, they won't mind he/she died. If this is a custom in your games (and you want to change this), maybe you should lower the challenge level a bit and sometimes fudge a dice roll for the sake of the character's life. #2 How can I stop power gamers. They are always unbalancing the party. You really can't stop power gamers. You can try to limit their options (by playing a core only game), but even than harsh power gamers will see possibilities to create some pretty though characters. The only way to stop them is to ask them to stop and hope that they will stop. Tell your story, don't just ask them to stop. Tell them why you ask this. The other way around power gamers is to give all of your players power characters. If one of your players is a power player and by doing that is becoming the center of the action every time, just power up the other player's characters to undo the effect of the power player. #3 My players won't play there alignments or they try to justify their actions based on what there alignment says in the PHB. How can I get them to play true to their alignments? You could try to play a game without alignments. Just ask them to write down (important!) a background and ask them some questions about their attitudes, p.e.: You enter a bar and the waitress won't serve you. What do you do? Your friend is arrested for a crime you know he didn't commit. What will you do? An old man is being robbed. The robber looks kind of big and is carrying a nasty pointy rapier. What do you do? Any question that gives you an insight in the player's alignment without him actually expressing it. #4 One of my players is a rule lawyer. He always makes sure the rules are followed to a T even when he is suppose to be in character. Try making some homebrewn monsters. In fact, try making a monster that looks very similar to one that is in the MM and than change some vital statistics, p.e.: You create some kind of were-animalbut instead of damage reduction versus silver, you give it damage reduction versus cold iron. Watch your rules lawyer freak out: :embarrass : Relax guys, it's only a werewolf. We'll nail him down with our silverer daggers. *roll, roll* :cool: : You hit, but somehow the wounds you just inflicted, aren't as deep as they should have been. You felt the dagger going into the belly of the beast, but somehow, when you retract it, you only see a scratch. :eek: : What!? But that's not possible, I'm sure you are mistaken! These are silvered weapons! Silvered weap... :cool: : Yeah, yeah, cut it out. I said it doesn't really affect the beast, so what's your next step? Do this as long as needed. Don't bend rules. Just make new situations your ruleslawyer doesn't know. #5 A few of my players WILL NOT EVEN TRY TO ROLE-PLAY their characters. This is a big problem that needs to be addressed. Very very nasty. Problem is you can't change players that much. You can give them a taste of roleplaying, but you'll never be able to make them do it themselves. Here too, you can ask your players if they wouldn't enjoy a more roleplayed game, but if your players are happy with the hack-'n-slash game you're running now, there's not much you can do. You can tell them that you are looking for another kind of game and start another kind of game. You could invite your current group there too, but always be very clear about what your plans are with the game. Hope this helps, Cheers
Bob Loblaw 01-09-07, 10:00 AM	#1 My players NEVER try to get party members raised from the dead. They would rather create a new character and let the party pillage the body. They do this no matter what alignments that they have decided to play. You may have to fudge some rolls to prevent them from dying. Also, you could consider having much of the gear damaged from the attack. Imagine if they are attacked by a giant. What would that club do to the fighter's armor? Have the enemy sunder the gear. Have the enemy take some with them. You could also give more single-use items or charged items. Remember that 3 or more charges is basically an at-will ability for combat. The 1/day abilities would work well here. #2 How can I stop power gamers. They are always unbalancing the party. Restrict the options available to them. It is not unreasonable to say that only certain books are available. You could also consider requiring training for feats and prestige classes. Not only will this require money (dealing with your first issue) but will also allow you to determine whether or not you want Prestige Class-X to be available at this point in your game. #3 My players won't play there alignments or they try to justify their actions based on what there alignment says in the PHB. How can I get them to play true to their alignments? The first thing you need to do is discuss with each one what their alignment means. You all need to be in agreement. You, as DM, have the final say but make sure that everyone agrees what is and is not acceptable. The next thing you need to do is keep track of what their alignments are. They can write whatever alignment they want on their characters, but in the end you will know the truth. You can tell them when they are slipping (this would be their conscience speaking). If they continue along the path, then change their alignments. When you want to make it known that they have strayed to the unwanted alignment (I am assuming you don't want them evil), then have the enemies using anti-evil spells and abilities. #4 One of my players is a rule lawyer. He always makes sure the rules are followed to a T even when he is suppose to be in character. Use him. He will help you run a more consistant campaign. This will eliminate many of the problems you encounter. Make sure he knows and understands that you know more of what is happening so some things may not work the way he understands them to be. For example, if you have the orc charge through rough terrain and he points out that it is not possible, he may be unaware that the orc knows that the terrain is actually an illusion. #5 A few of my players WILL NOT EVEN TRY TO ROLE-PLAY their characters. This is a big problem that needs to be addressed. If everyone is having fun, then this isn't a problem. If even one person isn't enjoying himself (including the DM), then either everyone else must change (doesn't sound like this is going to happen) or that player must find another group. You could consider making the adventures so that more roleplaying is required. Work your way up with this. Don't go from Hack-and-Slash to Method Acting in one session. You will lose your whole group. Add this in slowly and stop when they can't or won't handle any more. Good luck.
Falln 01-09-07, 10:54 AM	Use him. He will help you run a more consistant campaign. This will eliminate many of the problems you encounter. Make sure he knows and understands that you know more of what is happening so some things may not work the way he understands them to be. For example, if you have the orc charge through rough terrain and he points out that it is not possible, he may be unaware that the orc knows that the terrain is actually an illusion. Or the Orc is an illusion. :D
Ronsard101 01-09-07, 11:01 AM	#1 My players NEVER try to get party members raised from the dead. They would rather create a new character and let the party pillage the body. They do this no matter what alignments that they have decided to play. Do they do it to avoid the backdraw? (losing a level, paying the fee, etc...) In my game, I have houseruled that a new made character to replace a dead one will have 1 less level than his previous character and less money and gear than he had on his dead character. It's now common that the remaining of the group loot the dead character and wait to find another member (the new character) to see of some of the equipment would suit him. Some equipment is also often buried with the corpse. (I have a good roleplaying group:D ) #2 How can I stop power gamers. They are always unbalancing the party. -If you try to tells them they are power gaming, most of them will deny and be shocked... -If you limits the material to be used, they will find a way to do something powerful, even within the the core book (a rogue with a spiked chain for instance...) -If they roll bad stats, they will probably kill themself within a few level by doing something stupid. (my above houserule has something to do with this too...) The only thing i have found to fix this behavior is to stop playing with this kind of player. We had one friend some time ago (he's still a friend by the way) that was a power player. The game was just not fun anymore because no one other than him was enjoying the game. We had an argument and he just left. He never played since... #3 [...] #4 [...] #5 [...] I have nothing to add on this... I agree with most above poster...