Advice needed, desperately [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advice needed, desperately [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
pjecuw
01-16-04, 05:05 PM Long time lurker, first time poster, so I turn to the almighty DM board for a little help. :confused:

This situation is this: My group is currently level 10, a ranger/fighter, an initiate of the bow, an exotic weapon master, and a geomancer. As you can probably guess, they love to get in fights, and I'm happy to oblige. It's not that they don't like to roleplay, and we do roleplay quite a bit, but the most enjoyment is hackin' for the time being. I try to be as fair as possible with treasure in their encounters so I just role them straight up, but this has gotten me in a bit of a quandry.

My problem comes in the form of the ranger/fighter. His hitpoints blow for a tenth level fighter, only 72 (the geomancer has more hp :D ), which has lead to his "death" in about a third of the battles. Natually he has become obsessed about his AC, which through items/feats/dex he has gotten up to 26 (23 without feats). During the last encounter one of the items was a ring of protection +2, which I assumed would go to one of the characters with an AC less than 20 based on need and the auction system we use for magic. Low and behold, the fighter managed to convince no one else to bid on it so now he's approaching unhittable. I have 2 questions:

1. Do any of the following bonuses conflict with him wearing the ring: +1 studded leather, bracers of armor +2, amulet of natural armor +1?
2. What's the best way to combat this high AC without taking any of the items away from him?

Thanks all, look forward to the advice!
Strange Charm
01-16-04, 05:21 PM The bonuses provided by bracers of armor and studded leather (magic or not) do not stack. He already has too many items!
King_Sloth
01-16-04, 05:53 PM Originally posted by Strange Charm
The bonuses provided by bracers of armor and studded leather (magic or not) do not stack. He already has too many items!
Correct. Armor and 'Bracers of armor' do not stack since they are the same type of bonus. The amulet is considered 'Nat. Armor' and the ring is a deflection bonus plus a bonus on S.T.'s . I would have him give up the bracers to another party member --perhaps the Geomancer-- for cash or something else he can use since the +1 S.Lthr is better than the Bracers.
I'd not feel so bad about his high AC . unfortunetly he is (justifyably) paranoid about dying again. See if he can find something useful like a "Ring of 9 Lives' from Magic of Faerun. Basiclly when he goes negative -1 or lower it auto casts a 'Heal' spell on him . A brand new ring cost 50,000gp , i think, and has 9 charges (lives) .
:king:
BRJN
01-16-04, 08:06 PM Poison gas ought to enhance his paranoia suitably. :devil:

AFTER he has concluded that his huge AC makes him safe, send magic weapons (with a + to hit) after him. Some of his AC bonus will be counteracted.

Area-effect weapons in the hands of a knowledgeable long-time nemesis ought to be appropriate.

Things that require a Saving Throw, rather than a to-hit roll, would also be a way to work around this.

Some creatures have natural to-hit bonuses with certain attacks. Use them.

I agree with the other comment: this fellow is justified to be worried about dying; it keeps happening! Don't persecute him over it but if he gets paranoid in-character let the NPCs use it against him.

Hey, why isn't the rest of the party helping him out if he is the fragile one who keeps getting killed? Don't they have anything - Circle of Protection spells or whatever - that might build him up a bit?
NorthSaber
01-16-04, 08:15 PM Whether his AC is too high or not depends on the encounters you meet. The cleric of our group (we're below 10th level) has AC in the 30s, and the rest of our group who melee have our AC in the high 20s. Most of the enemies we fight hit us often enough, although the DM had to use some unusual tactics to get to the cleric (grapples).

Don't ask if your group's fighter's AC is too high - ask if everyone else's AC is too low.
Bluebrush
01-16-04, 08:40 PM If he doesn't have enough HP, maybe you should throw a constitution boosting item in his path.

Or perhaps the Vest of False Life from Sword and Fist.
Everach
01-16-04, 08:45 PM Originally posted by pjecuw
2. What's the best way to combat this high AC without taking any of the items away from him?

Grapple and trip are touch attacks, which is a lot easier to hit. Also, anything magical. Have some yuan-ti use fear on him so he runs away.

And think about using reserves. Let's say 4 trolls take on the party. Have two troll archers (say, fighter 2) hang back and launch arrows at any PCs that seemt o have a high AC. The arrows won't always hit, but it increases the chance that PC gets hit.

Also, recomend the ranger take combat expertise. He can crank up his AC by 5 points, but reduces his ability to hit. Which is nice and balanced.
astute1
01-16-04, 09:27 PM really, I don't think you have to worry about it. If he has low HP, then he'll take damage from spells regardless of his AC. I don't think you should slam on him just because he found a way to become powerful. There's quite a bit to deal with high-AC characters out there, though, should you want to rail on him a bit. Grapples by big critters are a big danger to AC-fiends. Most of the players in my campaign have picked up Rings of Freedom of Movement just to avoid that problem. Touch attack spells are another big worry. See how he feels after getting zapped with a few searing rays or other 'ray' spells. Area effect spells are usually reflex saves for half, meaning he'll still take damage there.

Also, how is AC 28 unhittable for CR10 monsters!?! A 10th level fighter should have better than a +16 attack bonus (+10 base, +4 str, +2 sword), meaning they'd hit him almost 50% of the time. CR10 also includes Fire Giant, with a +20 attack bonus, and Grey Slaad with two claw attacks at +15 and a bite at +12. Something tells me you aren't throwing enough of the big bad boys at him!
Fanatic-Templar
01-16-04, 09:41 PM I often find that people with high AC tend to dislike wizards.

I had a newly-created PC ( level 1 ) with an AC between 21 and 23 - Much too high for the common lv1 goblins and kobolds, even for those strong orcs which I like to use to deal some damage.

Unfortunately, he realized there wasn't much he could do to resist incoming " Magic Missiles " :devil:

I'm not sure if Rangers get Evasion in v.3.5. If not, you can use those fan-favorite spells: Fireball and Lightning Bolt. If they do, you might have to get some rarer ( or eviller ) spells.
Mitchell
01-17-04, 01:34 AM As mentioned before, the bracers don't stack with armor.
As for the root cause, have you considered either fudging his hit points, or using an alternate method?
A fighter doesn't do anyone much good if he has the misfortune of rolling a "1" every time he levels up. Throw him a bone and just give him a "10" or two, or three, as needed to get him where he should be. An alternate hp method would also work. These include average, which is instead of rolling, you can just take whatever your average roll would be. This method can be used on a case by case basis, meaning that some party members can use it while the others don't. It doesn't mess anything up. Another option is to give them a roll plus a bonus, not to exceed maximum. For example, a d4 would get 1+1-3 hp, a d6 would get 2+1-4, a d8 would get 3+1-5, a d10 gets 4+1-6, and d12 would get 5+1-7 (d8, re-roll 8). This method is more of an all-in type of approach, and everyone would want to use it anyway.
The second method will raise average hit points across the board, so you may want to beef up the monsters hit points as well. You could, however, let the fighter use this method for a few levels until he gets up to at least average.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
pjecuw 01-16-04, 05:05 PM	Long time lurker, first time poster, so I turn to the almighty DM board for a little help. :confused: This situation is this: My group is currently level 10, a ranger/fighter, an initiate of the bow, an exotic weapon master, and a geomancer. As you can probably guess, they love to get in fights, and I'm happy to oblige. It's not that they don't like to roleplay, and we do roleplay quite a bit, but the most enjoyment is hackin' for the time being. I try to be as fair as possible with treasure in their encounters so I just role them straight up, but this has gotten me in a bit of a quandry. My problem comes in the form of the ranger/fighter. His hitpoints blow for a tenth level fighter, only 72 (the geomancer has more hp :D ), which has lead to his "death" in about a third of the battles. Natually he has become obsessed about his AC, which through items/feats/dex he has gotten up to 26 (23 without feats). During the last encounter one of the items was a ring of protection +2, which I assumed would go to one of the characters with an AC less than 20 based on need and the auction system we use for magic. Low and behold, the fighter managed to convince no one else to bid on it so now he's approaching unhittable. I have 2 questions: 1. Do any of the following bonuses conflict with him wearing the ring: +1 studded leather, bracers of armor +2, amulet of natural armor +1? 2. What's the best way to combat this high AC without taking any of the items away from him? Thanks all, look forward to the advice!
Strange Charm 01-16-04, 05:21 PM	The bonuses provided by bracers of armor and studded leather (magic or not) do not stack. He already has too many items!
King_Sloth 01-16-04, 05:53 PM	Originally posted by Strange Charm The bonuses provided by bracers of armor and studded leather (magic or not) do not stack. He already has too many items! Correct. Armor and 'Bracers of armor' do not stack since they are the same type of bonus. The amulet is considered 'Nat. Armor' and the ring is a deflection bonus plus a bonus on S.T.'s . I would have him give up the bracers to another party member --perhaps the Geomancer-- for cash or something else he can use since the +1 S.Lthr is better than the Bracers. I'd not feel so bad about his high AC . unfortunetly he is (justifyably) paranoid about dying again. See if he can find something useful like a "Ring of 9 Lives' from Magic of Faerun. Basiclly when he goes negative -1 or lower it auto casts a 'Heal' spell on him . A brand new ring cost 50,000gp , i think, and has 9 charges (lives) . :king:
BRJN 01-16-04, 08:06 PM	Poison gas ought to enhance his paranoia suitably. :devil: AFTER he has concluded that his huge AC makes him safe, send magic weapons (with a + to hit) after him. Some of his AC bonus will be counteracted. Area-effect weapons in the hands of a knowledgeable long-time nemesis ought to be appropriate. Things that require a Saving Throw, rather than a to-hit roll, would also be a way to work around this. Some creatures have natural to-hit bonuses with certain attacks. Use them. I agree with the other comment: this fellow is justified to be worried about dying; it keeps happening! Don't persecute him over it but if he gets paranoid in-character let the NPCs use it against him. Hey, why isn't the rest of the party helping him out if he is the fragile one who keeps getting killed? Don't they have anything - Circle of Protection spells or whatever - that might build him up a bit?
NorthSaber 01-16-04, 08:15 PM	Whether his AC is too high or not depends on the encounters you meet. The cleric of our group (we're below 10th level) has AC in the 30s, and the rest of our group who melee have our AC in the high 20s. Most of the enemies we fight hit us often enough, although the DM had to use some unusual tactics to get to the cleric (grapples). Don't ask if your group's fighter's AC is too high - ask if everyone else's AC is too low.
Bluebrush 01-16-04, 08:40 PM	If he doesn't have enough HP, maybe you should throw a constitution boosting item in his path. Or perhaps the Vest of False Life from Sword and Fist.
Everach 01-16-04, 08:45 PM	Originally posted by pjecuw 2. What's the best way to combat this high AC without taking any of the items away from him? Grapple and trip are touch attacks, which is a lot easier to hit. Also, anything magical. Have some yuan-ti use fear on him so he runs away. And think about using reserves. Let's say 4 trolls take on the party. Have two troll archers (say, fighter 2) hang back and launch arrows at any PCs that seemt o have a high AC. The arrows won't always hit, but it increases the chance that PC gets hit. Also, recomend the ranger take combat expertise. He can crank up his AC by 5 points, but reduces his ability to hit. Which is nice and balanced.
astute1 01-16-04, 09:27 PM	really, I don't think you have to worry about it. If he has low HP, then he'll take damage from spells regardless of his AC. I don't think you should slam on him just because he found a way to become powerful. There's quite a bit to deal with high-AC characters out there, though, should you want to rail on him a bit. Grapples by big critters are a big danger to AC-fiends. Most of the players in my campaign have picked up Rings of Freedom of Movement just to avoid that problem. Touch attack spells are another big worry. See how he feels after getting zapped with a few searing rays or other 'ray' spells. Area effect spells are usually reflex saves for half, meaning he'll still take damage there. Also, how is AC 28 unhittable for CR10 monsters!?! A 10th level fighter should have better than a +16 attack bonus (+10 base, +4 str, +2 sword), meaning they'd hit him almost 50% of the time. CR10 also includes Fire Giant, with a +20 attack bonus, and Grey Slaad with two claw attacks at +15 and a bite at +12. Something tells me you aren't throwing enough of the big bad boys at him!
Fanatic-Templar 01-16-04, 09:41 PM	I often find that people with high AC tend to dislike wizards. I had a newly-created PC ( level 1 ) with an AC between 21 and 23 - Much too high for the common lv1 goblins and kobolds, even for those strong orcs which I like to use to deal some damage. Unfortunately, he realized there wasn't much he could do to resist incoming " Magic Missiles " :devil: I'm not sure if Rangers get Evasion in v.3.5. If not, you can use those fan-favorite spells: Fireball and Lightning Bolt. If they do, you might have to get some rarer ( or eviller ) spells.
Mitchell 01-17-04, 01:34 AM	As mentioned before, the bracers don't stack with armor. As for the root cause, have you considered either fudging his hit points, or using an alternate method? A fighter doesn't do anyone much good if he has the misfortune of rolling a "1" every time he levels up. Throw him a bone and just give him a "10" or two, or three, as needed to get him where he should be. An alternate hp method would also work. These include average, which is instead of rolling, you can just take whatever your average roll would be. This method can be used on a case by case basis, meaning that some party members can use it while the others don't. It doesn't mess anything up. Another option is to give them a roll plus a bonus, not to exceed maximum. For example, a d4 would get 1+1-3 hp, a d6 would get 2+1-4, a d8 would get 3+1-5, a d10 gets 4+1-6, and d12 would get 5+1-7 (d8, re-roll 8). This method is more of an all-in type of approach, and everyone would want to use it anyway. The second method will raise average hit points across the board, so you may want to beef up the monsters hit points as well. You could, however, let the fighter use this method for a few levels until he gets up to at least average.