Advice on a low level boss [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advice on a low level boss [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
AlexKWard
05-27-05, 06:28 PM I am beginning my first ever custom campain, and have very little experience in DMing in general. As far as major plot, and world design goes, I am doing swimmingly, however, in my very first dungeon, I am having a hard time coming up with a decent boss for the party (level 1, druic, rogue, paladin).

I am somewhat limited, because I want the final to be something that an evil (but brilliant and a little 'eccentric') cleric would use as a guardian, but I would like it to be more memorable than X undead. and would like something that smacks of demon influence, but I'll be darned if I can figure out what to use. :confused: The cleric is only somewhat fleshed out at the moment, but the diety he worships is devoted to the corruption, and impurity. any help is appreciated :)
scott644
05-27-05, 06:41 PM A half-fiend humanoid with a level or two in PC classess might work. If that's too strong, just make it a fiendish humaoid with a few levels in PC classess. Fighter or ranger makes for a solid guardian, while a rogue/monk/bard would be a sneaky but deadly one. Worst of all could be the evil bard who signs on with the party as an NPC in their adventure. His job is to identify and elimenate threats before they approach his protected area, thus he will always find ways to pretend to assist yet hang back, and eventually if they find his protectorate he will start nailing them. Rogue or monk could do the same. Fighter would just wait and swedge. Ranger would be similar to fighter, but would by class be inclined to being more of the maneuvering sort.

Sound good?
AlexKWard
05-27-05, 06:50 PM yes it sounds like a good idea, but I'm not sure if it fits. the situation is currently the evil (unknown to the party) cleric is following the paladin around as a kind of watchdog, because the paladin has been accused of dereliction by his senior officers, this is kind of a punishment job, on the fringes of soceity. what is really happening is the cleric is going to double cross them at the end of the dungeon, leaving with the magic tome that the party is digging up. in his place, he will be unleashing something on the party to tie up loose ends. thus, I was thinking something more along the lines of either a planar creature (demonic) or something more along the lines of a pet. this priest is fairly low on the totem pole of the evil cult, and I don't think he would be able to hire anybody else out.
Astinex
05-27-05, 06:53 PM For a person who worships corruption, and ooze or a fungus might fit the bill. Or, possibly a deadly plant with a poison or acid attack.

Actually come to think of it, an Ooze or Dust Mephit may be just the trick with a CR 3. Both found in the core MM.

I don't recall the CR off hand but maybe a rustmonster?

Also, if you want to be creative, maybe the Cleric has one or two baby carrion crawlers he is hoping to raise into full fledged guardian beasties. Just reverse the advancement rules in the MM and reduce the CR of standard carrion crawler(s) to something the PC's can handle.
AlexKWard
05-27-05, 07:01 PM thanks
I think perhaps the mephit is the way to go, they are demons, and seem to be somewhat likely to be a pet, or underling for a chaotic evil cleric.
I appreciate the help.
this is my most likely solution, but I will accept any other suggestions :)
Mirikon
05-27-05, 07:41 PM I am beginning my first ever custom campain, and have very little experience in DMing in general. As far as major plot, and world design goes, I am doing swimmingly, however, in my very first dungeon, I am having a hard time coming up with a decent boss for the party (level 1, druic, rogue, paladin).

I am somewhat limited, because I want the final to be something that an evil (but brilliant and a little 'eccentric') cleric would use as a guardian, but I would like it to be more memorable than X undead. and would like something that smacks of demon influence, but I'll be darned if I can figure out what to use. :confused: The cleric is only somewhat fleshed out at the moment, but the diety he worships is devoted to the corruption, and impurity. any help is appreciated :)

A tiefling could work. Perhaps with a level or two of bard? Another choice would be a lycanthrope of some kind. Nothing says 'corruption' like fort saves to resist turning into a giant rat.
scott644
05-27-05, 07:45 PM Actually, mephits are elemental outsiders in 3.5.

Given the cleric's already doing the tag-along routine, my idea is obviously right out.

The ooze or dust mephit would be cool. Apply the fiendish or half-fiendish template to add extra punch, and make it perhaps the result of a summoning item the cleric has? He could refer to it as "my pet," and unleash it on his foes every now and again when he requires a distraction.
AlexKWard
05-27-05, 08:04 PM the summoning is a great idea

As far as making it hurt more, the party is gonna be all first level when they get there, and it is only 3 pc's plus the druids familiar (she hasn't decided what kind yet). is that a good idea?

I haven't played 3.5 really, and I'm not at all sure about these players abilites, because they have never really played before either. it makes it tough to make the encounters match them.
don't want it too easy, but surely don't want a tpk :eek:
BRJN
05-27-05, 11:19 PM How about a couple of Zombies or Skeletons with little horns growing out of their heads? The PCs will think there is demon influence, even if there is not.

I also like the idea of an ooze or mold or mildew monster down in a damp cavern somewhere.

Possibility for later: An undead (pick something about the level of the party) with a level of Barbarian. The cleric uses his special-purpose Wand of Command to cause it to Rage.
scott644
05-28-05, 12:08 AM Woah! They're all gonna be first level when it hits? That's not just low-level - that's ultra-low!

Ok, don't make the mephit be half-fiend. That's too powerful. With party level at 1, you want a CR 2 to 3 for a boss. Now I'm home and have my books, let's look....

In the MM:
Devil, Imp (cr2)
Dretch (demon) (cr2)
Quasit (demon (cr2)
varguille (cr2)
wererat (cr2)
allip (cr3)
ghast (cr3)
hell hound (cr3)
mephit (any) (cr3)
shadow (cr3)
werewolf (cr3)
wight (cr3)
yeth hound (cr3)
pureblood yuan-ti (cr3) (an excellent candidate for corruption)

In the Fiend Folio:
aquatic ooze, flotsam ooze (cr2)
imp, filth (cr2)
jackalwere (cr2)
imp, bloodbag (cr3)
imp, euphoric (cr3)
yugoloth, skereloth (cr3)

In the Book of Vile Darkness:
demon, rutterkin (cr3) - excellent corruption candidate

Any look interesting? They should all be summonable as well. :)
fatal error
05-28-05, 12:42 AM Don't use a hell hound lol, one fire breath could equal instant TPK
scott644
05-28-05, 01:10 AM hehehe... true, true... I just posted what seemed possible for the concept is all. :cool:
AlexKWard
05-28-05, 01:58 AM That demon, rutterkin sounds mighty interesting, may have to go pick up that book.

I was looking at the low level demons in MMI and while difficulty wise they seem fine, its the story & flavor that I am having a hard time getting to mesh.

and yes, they will be level one (unless they decide they wanna wander around before getting to the area) but they won't be dealing with the cleric, just his pet. the cleric will be leaving with the tome. he was just using the PCs for bodyguards until he got to it.
Psifon
05-28-05, 03:43 AM Lycanthropy can be nice for a boss monster. Consider:

When they find out the bad guy is a lycanthrope it makes for good drama
They can heal up a bit when they change form
They gain DR 10/silver when in were-form
They can still do all their PC stuff when in hybrid form

I have a were-rat bad guy, who is a 3rd level character (so a CR 4 encounter), he can run off into the sewers when he is confronted, turning into a dire rat and running into a narrow pipe. I am throwing a very rat-themed adventure at them - rat swarms, I gave him a pipe of the sewers, etc.

The nice thing about this is that it makes him not too nasty at low level, but survivable. He can infect a PC or two with lycanthropy (giving me some nice "recruiting" potential), and as the party levels, he can level. I plan to make him an arcane trixter, which mixes well with the basic abilities of the were-rat form. He is not the kind of character who will make a major super villian in the long run, rather he will be the hated nemesis of the party, who foils them from time to time. The guy they love to hate.
AlexKWard
05-28-05, 01:26 PM I like the lycanthrope idea myself. however I think I may save it for a more important NPC later on. one with a dirty little secret in the clerical branch of the paladin's order. currently (though they are unaware as yet) the god of corruption is making a bid to take out 2 other evil gods. the PC's will first become aware of this because a low level cleric of the evil god is using them as his bodyguards (unwittingly) to retrieve an artifact his bosses want from him. :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AlexKWard 05-27-05, 06:28 PM	I am beginning my first ever custom campain, and have very little experience in DMing in general. As far as major plot, and world design goes, I am doing swimmingly, however, in my very first dungeon, I am having a hard time coming up with a decent boss for the party (level 1, druic, rogue, paladin). I am somewhat limited, because I want the final to be something that an evil (but brilliant and a little 'eccentric') cleric would use as a guardian, but I would like it to be more memorable than X undead. and would like something that smacks of demon influence, but I'll be darned if I can figure out what to use. :confused: The cleric is only somewhat fleshed out at the moment, but the diety he worships is devoted to the corruption, and impurity. any help is appreciated :)
scott644 05-27-05, 06:41 PM	A half-fiend humanoid with a level or two in PC classess might work. If that's too strong, just make it a fiendish humaoid with a few levels in PC classess. Fighter or ranger makes for a solid guardian, while a rogue/monk/bard would be a sneaky but deadly one. Worst of all could be the evil bard who signs on with the party as an NPC in their adventure. His job is to identify and elimenate threats before they approach his protected area, thus he will always find ways to pretend to assist yet hang back, and eventually if they find his protectorate he will start nailing them. Rogue or monk could do the same. Fighter would just wait and swedge. Ranger would be similar to fighter, but would by class be inclined to being more of the maneuvering sort. Sound good?
AlexKWard 05-27-05, 06:50 PM	yes it sounds like a good idea, but I'm not sure if it fits. the situation is currently the evil (unknown to the party) cleric is following the paladin around as a kind of watchdog, because the paladin has been accused of dereliction by his senior officers, this is kind of a punishment job, on the fringes of soceity. what is really happening is the cleric is going to double cross them at the end of the dungeon, leaving with the magic tome that the party is digging up. in his place, he will be unleashing something on the party to tie up loose ends. thus, I was thinking something more along the lines of either a planar creature (demonic) or something more along the lines of a pet. this priest is fairly low on the totem pole of the evil cult, and I don't think he would be able to hire anybody else out.
Astinex 05-27-05, 06:53 PM	For a person who worships corruption, and ooze or a fungus might fit the bill. Or, possibly a deadly plant with a poison or acid attack. Actually come to think of it, an Ooze or Dust Mephit may be just the trick with a CR 3. Both found in the core MM. I don't recall the CR off hand but maybe a rustmonster? Also, if you want to be creative, maybe the Cleric has one or two baby carrion crawlers he is hoping to raise into full fledged guardian beasties. Just reverse the advancement rules in the MM and reduce the CR of standard carrion crawler(s) to something the PC's can handle.
AlexKWard 05-27-05, 07:01 PM	thanks I think perhaps the mephit is the way to go, they are demons, and seem to be somewhat likely to be a pet, or underling for a chaotic evil cleric. I appreciate the help. this is my most likely solution, but I will accept any other suggestions :)
Mirikon 05-27-05, 07:41 PM	I am beginning my first ever custom campain, and have very little experience in DMing in general. As far as major plot, and world design goes, I am doing swimmingly, however, in my very first dungeon, I am having a hard time coming up with a decent boss for the party (level 1, druic, rogue, paladin). I am somewhat limited, because I want the final to be something that an evil (but brilliant and a little 'eccentric') cleric would use as a guardian, but I would like it to be more memorable than X undead. and would like something that smacks of demon influence, but I'll be darned if I can figure out what to use. :confused: The cleric is only somewhat fleshed out at the moment, but the diety he worships is devoted to the corruption, and impurity. any help is appreciated :) A tiefling could work. Perhaps with a level or two of bard? Another choice would be a lycanthrope of some kind. Nothing says 'corruption' like fort saves to resist turning into a giant rat.
scott644 05-27-05, 07:45 PM	Actually, mephits are elemental outsiders in 3.5. Given the cleric's already doing the tag-along routine, my idea is obviously right out. The ooze or dust mephit would be cool. Apply the fiendish or half-fiendish template to add extra punch, and make it perhaps the result of a summoning item the cleric has? He could refer to it as "my pet," and unleash it on his foes every now and again when he requires a distraction.
AlexKWard 05-27-05, 08:04 PM	the summoning is a great idea As far as making it hurt more, the party is gonna be all first level when they get there, and it is only 3 pc's plus the druids familiar (she hasn't decided what kind yet). is that a good idea? I haven't played 3.5 really, and I'm not at all sure about these players abilites, because they have never really played before either. it makes it tough to make the encounters match them. don't want it too easy, but surely don't want a tpk :eek:
BRJN 05-27-05, 11:19 PM	How about a couple of Zombies or Skeletons with little horns growing out of their heads? The PCs will think there is demon influence, even if there is not. I also like the idea of an ooze or mold or mildew monster down in a damp cavern somewhere. Possibility for later: An undead (pick something about the level of the party) with a level of Barbarian. The cleric uses his special-purpose Wand of Command to cause it to Rage.
scott644 05-28-05, 12:08 AM	Woah! They're all gonna be first level when it hits? That's not just low-level - that's ultra-low! Ok, don't make the mephit be half-fiend. That's too powerful. With party level at 1, you want a CR 2 to 3 for a boss. Now I'm home and have my books, let's look.... In the MM: Devil, Imp (cr2) Dretch (demon) (cr2) Quasit (demon (cr2) varguille (cr2) wererat (cr2) allip (cr3) ghast (cr3) hell hound (cr3) mephit (any) (cr3) shadow (cr3) werewolf (cr3) wight (cr3) yeth hound (cr3) pureblood yuan-ti (cr3) (an excellent candidate for corruption) In the Fiend Folio: aquatic ooze, flotsam ooze (cr2) imp, filth (cr2) jackalwere (cr2) imp, bloodbag (cr3) imp, euphoric (cr3) yugoloth, skereloth (cr3) In the Book of Vile Darkness: demon, rutterkin (cr3) - excellent corruption candidate Any look interesting? They should all be summonable as well. :)
fatal error 05-28-05, 12:42 AM	Don't use a hell hound lol, one fire breath could equal instant TPK
scott644 05-28-05, 01:10 AM	hehehe... true, true... I just posted what seemed possible for the concept is all. :cool:
AlexKWard 05-28-05, 01:58 AM	That demon, rutterkin sounds mighty interesting, may have to go pick up that book. I was looking at the low level demons in MMI and while difficulty wise they seem fine, its the story & flavor that I am having a hard time getting to mesh. and yes, they will be level one (unless they decide they wanna wander around before getting to the area) but they won't be dealing with the cleric, just his pet. the cleric will be leaving with the tome. he was just using the PCs for bodyguards until he got to it.
Psifon 05-28-05, 03:43 AM	Lycanthropy can be nice for a boss monster. Consider: When they find out the bad guy is a lycanthrope it makes for good drama They can heal up a bit when they change form They gain DR 10/silver when in were-form They can still do all their PC stuff when in hybrid form I have a were-rat bad guy, who is a 3rd level character (so a CR 4 encounter), he can run off into the sewers when he is confronted, turning into a dire rat and running into a narrow pipe. I am throwing a very rat-themed adventure at them - rat swarms, I gave him a pipe of the sewers, etc. The nice thing about this is that it makes him not too nasty at low level, but survivable. He can infect a PC or two with lycanthropy (giving me some nice "recruiting" potential), and as the party levels, he can level. I plan to make him an arcane trixter, which mixes well with the basic abilities of the were-rat form. He is not the kind of character who will make a major super villian in the long run, rather he will be the hated nemesis of the party, who foils them from time to time. The guy they love to hate.
AlexKWard 05-28-05, 01:26 PM	I like the lycanthrope idea myself. however I think I may save it for a more important NPC later on. one with a dirty little secret in the clerical branch of the paladin's order. currently (though they are unaware as yet) the god of corruption is making a bid to take out 2 other evil gods. the PC's will first become aware of this because a low level cleric of the evil god is using them as his bodyguards (unwittingly) to retrieve an artifact his bosses want from him. :)