Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JackSnape 11-17-07, 11:03 PM	In my campaign I plan to have the PCs come across a town under siege, forces from the PCs home town are trapped inside with enemy fores surrounding. There are a number of ways this could play out, If I were a PC I might want to blast my way through to a gate to let the the trapped army out, but you could sneak in, or attack the leader too. Has anyone done this kind of thing? what did your PCs do? Any tips? Thanks in advance
Axiomatic_vampire 11-17-07, 11:14 PM	strategically, the worst thing that can happen to a sieging force is to be attacked from behind. They've got a lot to do just covering all the possible exits from a city and guarding against attacks from the town. Best thing the players could likely do is start to destroy/sabotage any siege equipment, or try to assassinate army leaders. After that, guerrilla style raids to start thinning out the sieging army.
Etarnon 11-18-07, 01:17 AM	poison the water, wait three days, then walk in.
kuonji 11-18-07, 01:25 AM	What level are the PCs? How big is the invading force? Defending force? What defences does the defending force have? What is the surrounding land like? Do the attackers have seige weapons? The defenders? Are the defenders expecting relief? Do the attackers have reinforcements? How much magic is involved on each side? There are so many factors to take into consideration for a siege that it is difficult to suggest any kind of action without knowing more detail. For example, if the PCs can teleport and the enemy cannot, then resupplying the defending force is pretty easy and the attacking force will eventually figure out their waiting game isn't working and be forced into action (countering the teleports, attacking the walls). With your suggestion of blasting a path to the gate, it is more likely opening the gate will let the attackers inside rather then help the defenders get out. If the defending army could sortie in the first place, the siege wouldn't be too much of an issue. The easiest way to win a siege is to just wait for the defending forces to run out of supplies and start to get desperate, either forcing an attack in an attempt to escape or, more likely, elements of the defending force will try to cut a deal with the attackers and find a way to let the attackers inside. If the attackers are on a time table (need to move on, expecting relief for the defenders, etc) then they will have to force an assalt on the defenders position, but without knowing what kind of siege weapons they have, if the are employing sappers and other such information, it's difficult to say what the "best" options for the PCs will be.
Zombie Carl 11-18-07, 03:30 AM	An important thing to remember is that the sieging army will be far less organised than the PC's. If the fighter runs in and starts hacking some of the NPC soldiers, they will be more inclined to run into their camp and try to form defensive ranks than try to pile on the fighter. If the fighter then runs, leaving a dozen dead, a few eager soldiers may chase him, but the majority wouldn't. However, this means the general would assign an experienced, manouverable unit to hunt down the troublemakers...
Absynthe_minded21 11-18-07, 03:41 AM	From a game friendly perspective I would send the party to get help (unless they can sigle handedly wipe out the attacking army of course) In a campaign I wrote awhile back the party was escourting the heir of a small barony back home to find out that since his father's death the region had become overrun with orcs based out of a ruined city-fort. To help overcome the enemy forces they contacted the local tribe of gnolls, who were no happier about the new neighbors then the humans. The gnoll warchief tested the PCs by sending them against a nearby troll and when they returned victorious deemed them worthy allies and agreed to join forces. The whole ordeal took about 24 hours. As your PCs are spying on the attackers they might stumble across other spies who put them in contact with their leader, who in turn tests them, and agrees to launch a sortie on the mutual enemy, in exchange for a reward after the job is done of course.
kelvinaw273 11-18-07, 04:50 AM	Destroy supplies, sabotage siege engines, assassinate army leaders. Those are the three best things they can do. The last thing they should try is to get into the town, because that puts them in a place where they cannot do much. If they cause problems for the besiegers, the besiegers have to watch their backs and their fronts both ...
JackSnape 11-18-07, 10:09 AM	Sorry I thought I had given PC level, avg party level is 9. As for all the other variables, none of them have been decided yet. I'm sort of woroking through ideas still. The general idea is this tho, the PCs are returning from a far-flung adventure. For ease there are 3 cities: A, B and C. A is where the PCs live, B is the next biggest nearby city, and C is a smaller walled city in between. The PC hear that the queen oc C has died, leaving the city without a leader. A and B both charge to control the city, A reached it first, B's forces siege the city and then the PCs show up. My idea was that As forces would be slightly smaller than Bs, but had gotten them selves into a defensive position. A would have more mages, but B will probably have a anti-magic field set up where they're sieging. Anyway, thanks for some insight, I want to play pretty openly letting the PCs decide how to break the siege, so I'm not really looking for the BEST way to break the siege just a few possibilities.
Axiomatic_vampire 11-18-07, 07:05 PM	Taking down the anti-magic field, or chasing the army out of its area would be excellent strategies. Particularly if this is all visible from the city. Or just engage the army from the rear, use hit and run tactics, and try to destroy some of the army's more valuable assets. If the party can even the odds a bit, and the defenders are aware they have help, they'll likely march out while the party engages whatever they can from the rear. The attacking army has to split its assets to defend on two sides. Win.
White_Whale 11-18-07, 07:56 PM	The purpose of a siege is usually to cut off resources (food, water), and force the opposing side to surrender or launch a (desperate) attack. If the PCs are level 9 they should have access to teleport, which would to a large degree overcome the obstacle that is the siege. However, if they for whatever reason cannot teleport (which I suggest you should prohibit), the siege must be overcome in another way. A real-life solution is to attack a section of the siege from two sides simultaneously, as others have mentioned. Another solution is to cut off the siege army's resources (steal/burn/poison). Yet another solution is to utilize Control Weather to make life miserable for the siege army, and eventually hope that low morale causes the army to disband.
Axiomatic_vampire 11-18-07, 08:14 PM	Serious question: what quantity of supplies can a teleporting wizard realistically bring in? I doubt it's enough to make much of a difference when trying to feed thousands of people. Second serious question. Do any supplements (heroes of battle maybe?) offer much on the mechanics of army moral? Constant bad weather can do a number on a real life army, is there a D&D mechanic on this?
White_Whale 11-19-07, 03:57 AM	Serious question: what quantity of supplies can a teleporting wizard realistically bring in? I doubt it's enough to make much of a difference when trying to feed thousands of people. A very rough estimate: Assuming a 9th level wizard with access to 2 teleports per day. He can bring 3 medium sized creatures along. A conservative estimate is that they have an average strength score of 18 (after buffs), so they can carry 300lbs each (x4 = 1200lbs). A ration is 1lb, so 1200lbs is likely enough to feed 1200 people per day. I think this estimate is conservative, as several factors can increase the number (caster level/strength/bag of holding/number of teleports per day/wildshaping druid). So while a single wizard is not likely to feed the entire town, his efforts may significantly increase the time before the food storage is empty. Second serious question. Do any supplements (heroes of battle maybe?) offer much on the mechanics of army moral? Constant bad weather can do a number on a real life army, is there a D&D mechanic on this? There are some mechanics on morale check penalties due to fatigue and exhaustion, but not directly due to bad weather IIRC. :)
Axiomatic_vampire 11-19-07, 04:32 AM	Bag of holding! Man, the stuff I don't think of. So yeah, that's reasonable. I would still say, on the other hand, that players tend to want excitement. Teleporting flour and jerky into a town, winning a war of attrition through superior supply, that's a sound solution. But my average player wants to destroy/slay/devastate something. I'd suggest offering both solutions. If they want to be smart and careful about it, that's there, but give them a realistic combat option as well, if possible. I don't know about you, but I'm willing to stretch a point or two of reality if it leads to a fun encounter, and doesn't stretch credibility past the breaking point.
kelvinaw273 11-19-07, 07:54 AM	A possibility is that the besiegers are attempting to undermine the walls, in which case shoring up supplies is not a useful tactic. The party may have to try to collapse the tunnels or kill the miners in some way to protect the town ...
JackSnape 11-19-07, 10:15 AM	. Teleporting flour and jerky into a town, winning a war of attrition through superior supply, that's a sound solution. But my average player wants to destroy/slay/devastate something. I'd suggest offering both solutions. If they want to be smart and careful about it, that's there, but give them a realistic combat option as well, if possible. I don't know about you, but I'm willing to stretch a point or two of reality if it leads to a fun encounter, and doesn't stretch credibility past the breaking point. Yeah my players won't be real excited about shoring up supplies either. I'll most likely have a secondary force coming in to supply the defenders and hopefully break the siege, the PCs will have to A) shore up supplies and destroy siege weaponry long enough to let the secondary force get there, or B)break the siege themselves or I suppose C)change sides and finish off the defenders :)