advice on NPC cleric [Archive] - Wizards Community

advice on NPC cleric [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
zooeykid
09-21-06, 11:56 PM Hi! I could use some advice :)

I'm thinking of giving my players the option of having an NPC cleric in their party to help balance things out, but I'm not sure about a few things. Here are the specifics...

We have a barbarian and a wizard, and a new player is joining which will most likely be a rogue. I am a pretty inexperienced DM and the players are just as inexperienced. I have done lots of research (so I'm in the best position of the group to DM lol), but just haven't had much play time experience. We are playing the new Savage Tidings campaign from Paizo, and we are on our second session.

In the first session, I ended up scaling things down a lot on the fly and fudging many rolls just because I didn't want our first session to end in a TPK. Okay so I had a lot on my plate and sorta forgot that I only had 2 PCs facing an adventure made for 4. But anyway, I want to make future sessions go better. As I said, we have a rogue joining us, but that still leaves out the role of healer. Here are the options I've explored...

1) an NPC cleric who will travel with the party offering healing spells at a cost per spell (latest issue of Dungeon mag has some good ideas for these). This NPC would not get involved in combat on his/her own, just healing when needed.

2) an NPC cleric who one of the players can control. This NPC would do more and not charge a fee, but would also gain xp and treasure just like another PC.

3) giving out potions or encouraging the party to buy lots of potions

4) some other option. lol okay so I dont have many options prepared.

I don't want to play a DMPC -- as a new DM I just know this will be too much. Okay what do you think? ANY advice would be greatly appreciated :)

Thanks!
Lord_Varos
09-22-06, 12:01 AM Make potions cheaper. Explain it economically: few consumers in the area have a need for healing potions, so the prices have to go down considerably, perhaps as low as 60% standard market price, just for the priesthood to stay in business. If Light Cure potions can be purchased at, say 30 gp instead of 50, the PCs will catch on and plan to save a little money by stocking up on potions.
Comus
09-22-06, 12:10 AM If you've got good players, three is probably enough to run with. That's how many my group has, after all. Just remember two things:

1) If they can't do something themselves, make sure they can spend money to have it done. Healing potions, hiring wizards to scry, clerics to remove curses, that kind of thing. If you give the three players as much treasure as four, they can use the extra disposable income to get more single-use items and that kind of thing.

2) Don't punish them for lacking whatever archetype isn't in the party. In this case, lacking a cleric, try to limit the number of undead encounters.

Oh, and obviously - reduce the CR of enounters slightly. You knew that already, of course, judging from your first post, but it still bears repeating. Just using three equal CR enounters (instead of four) a day should be enough balance, in my experience.
Zerchai
09-22-06, 01:17 AM If your new player is going to be creating a rogue, strongly suggest to the player that he or she max out ranks in the Use Magic Device skill and go from there - a wand of cure light wounds is inexpensive and is as much a font of healing as a cleric to a low-level party. If you're worried about it, you can even have them just "happen" to find a nice wand of cure light with 30 or so charges in their next treasure haul.

The other option, of course, as you have suggested, is to run an NPC that travels with the party (sometimes called a DMPC), but there are a few pitfalls that you need to be very careful to avoid if you decide to go this route. For one, make sure your NPC always stays just below the PCs in terms of power - equip him/her according to the NPC gp value/level instead of the PC gp value/level table, and keep the character just behind the PCs in terms of experience. Otherwise, it might start to feel like the characters are just being towed around by your NPC and that they really aren't important; make sure that it's the other way around - maybe the party does something to help out a small local village, and the local priest is so impressed/moved by the party's actions that he/she feels a need to follow the party to aid them in their good deeds (it doesn't hurt if the cleric refuses to take a full share of the party's treasure, either - after all the treasure should go to the true heroes) - in short, if you go the "DMPC" route, make sure that you're playing a follower of the party, rather than a full-out co-adventurer.
One nice thing that can come of the party having a cleric follower/buddy is that the cleric can also act as something of a moral guidepost from time to time: you mentioned that your group is relatively new to D&D, so if the party starts to do something you might consider to be shady or evil in your campaign, the cleric can offer advice against such action.
I've played many DMPCs in the past, and by and large, most of my groups really enjoy the earned sidekick/follower route, and clerics, fighters, and bards seem to fit into that sort of role most easily (and, as it happens, are frequently one of the three niches that a small party might need to have filled!). Bards especially work well (in my experience), following the party around to offer advice (bardic knowledge), to heal (spells, scrolls, and wands), to keep spirits lifted even in the most dire of situations (inspire courage, inspire competence), and to record the epic tales of the heroes exploits!

Hope this helps some, and good luck!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
zooeykid 09-21-06, 11:56 PM	Hi! I could use some advice :) I'm thinking of giving my players the option of having an NPC cleric in their party to help balance things out, but I'm not sure about a few things. Here are the specifics... We have a barbarian and a wizard, and a new player is joining which will most likely be a rogue. I am a pretty inexperienced DM and the players are just as inexperienced. I have done lots of research (so I'm in the best position of the group to DM lol), but just haven't had much play time experience. We are playing the new Savage Tidings campaign from Paizo, and we are on our second session. In the first session, I ended up scaling things down a lot on the fly and fudging many rolls just because I didn't want our first session to end in a TPK. Okay so I had a lot on my plate and sorta forgot that I only had 2 PCs facing an adventure made for 4. But anyway, I want to make future sessions go better. As I said, we have a rogue joining us, but that still leaves out the role of healer. Here are the options I've explored... 1) an NPC cleric who will travel with the party offering healing spells at a cost per spell (latest issue of Dungeon mag has some good ideas for these). This NPC would not get involved in combat on his/her own, just healing when needed. 2) an NPC cleric who one of the players can control. This NPC would do more and not charge a fee, but would also gain xp and treasure just like another PC. 3) giving out potions or encouraging the party to buy lots of potions 4) some other option. lol okay so I dont have many options prepared. I don't want to play a DMPC -- as a new DM I just know this will be too much. Okay what do you think? ANY advice would be greatly appreciated :) Thanks!
Lord_Varos 09-22-06, 12:01 AM	Make potions cheaper. Explain it economically: few consumers in the area have a need for healing potions, so the prices have to go down considerably, perhaps as low as 60% standard market price, just for the priesthood to stay in business. If Light Cure potions can be purchased at, say 30 gp instead of 50, the PCs will catch on and plan to save a little money by stocking up on potions.
Comus 09-22-06, 12:10 AM	If you've got good players, three is probably enough to run with. That's how many my group has, after all. Just remember two things: 1) If they can't do something themselves, make sure they can spend money to have it done. Healing potions, hiring wizards to scry, clerics to remove curses, that kind of thing. If you give the three players as much treasure as four, they can use the extra disposable income to get more single-use items and that kind of thing. 2) Don't punish them for lacking whatever archetype isn't in the party. In this case, lacking a cleric, try to limit the number of undead encounters. Oh, and obviously - reduce the CR of enounters slightly. You knew that already, of course, judging from your first post, but it still bears repeating. Just using three equal CR enounters (instead of four) a day should be enough balance, in my experience.
Zerchai 09-22-06, 01:17 AM	If your new player is going to be creating a rogue, strongly suggest to the player that he or she max out ranks in the Use Magic Device skill and go from there - a wand of cure light wounds is inexpensive and is as much a font of healing as a cleric to a low-level party. If you're worried about it, you can even have them just "happen" to find a nice wand of cure light with 30 or so charges in their next treasure haul. The other option, of course, as you have suggested, is to run an NPC that travels with the party (sometimes called a DMPC), but there are a few pitfalls that you need to be very careful to avoid if you decide to go this route. For one, make sure your NPC always stays just below the PCs in terms of power - equip him/her according to the NPC gp value/level instead of the PC gp value/level table, and keep the character just behind the PCs in terms of experience. Otherwise, it might start to feel like the characters are just being towed around by your NPC and that they really aren't important; make sure that it's the other way around - maybe the party does something to help out a small local village, and the local priest is so impressed/moved by the party's actions that he/she feels a need to follow the party to aid them in their good deeds (it doesn't hurt if the cleric refuses to take a full share of the party's treasure, either - after all the treasure should go to the true heroes) - in short, if you go the "DMPC" route, make sure that you're playing a follower of the party, rather than a full-out co-adventurer. One nice thing that can come of the party having a cleric follower/buddy is that the cleric can also act as something of a moral guidepost from time to time: you mentioned that your group is relatively new to D&D, so if the party starts to do something you might consider to be shady or evil in your campaign, the cleric can offer advice against such action. I've played many DMPCs in the past, and by and large, most of my groups really enjoy the earned sidekick/follower route, and clerics, fighters, and bards seem to fit into that sort of role most easily (and, as it happens, are frequently one of the three niches that a small party might need to have filled!). Bards especially work well (in my experience), following the party around to offer advice (bardic knowledge), to heal (spells, scrolls, and wands), to keep spirits lifted even in the most dire of situations (inspire courage, inspire competence), and to record the epic tales of the heroes exploits! Hope this helps some, and good luck!