Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zachariah 04-26-08, 06:55 PM	Hello DM's, Does anyone have any experience running an evil campaign? Im currently working on one, as my players and I prefer it over heroic play. But, I must admit, I'm finding it pretty hard. Evil char's are harder to motivate, they dont just do things to help. So you need to either blackmail them in doing something or reward them in some way. Another thing is betrayal, they are able to kill each other. So far I tried to fix the latter by means of background and plot. They are the youngest generation in an assassin guild. There are 3 of them; A rogue who plans on taking on the ninja spy PrC, a warblade and a druid who will take levels in my costum Vermin Lord PrC. The Rogue is the son of the assassin guild leader. The warblade is the son of the right hand of the guild leader (and a powerful guardian), who was killed by an unknown warrior (well thats what the players know). The druid was adopted by the guild leader, as he was a member of druidic tribe who were known for their poisons, so he got in for his poisoncraft skills. Anyway, they pretty much grew up inside the guild. On the first session they had to assassinate a noble man who was traveling on a boat. During the battle the boat got serieusly damaged, causing it to drift. After several weeks they end up on some island. No clue where they are.. they need to stick togather to survive. Anyway, thats the idea... So, actually this is where the campaign starts. I just dont really know where to start, I have plenty of things in mind for them. But I need some random quests for the beginning, in which they get some basic understanding of the island they ended up on. At this point hey are level 4 (started at 3) Could anyone help me get started with this? Or have some tips for running an evil campaign? anything that you think might be useful is welcome. Also, im fairly new to DM'ing. Thanks in Advance, Zach
Dash Branaghan 04-26-08, 06:58 PM	My first suggestion is make use of the Search Function...you might find threads already dedicated to this topic: What Should I Know About DMing an Evil Party? (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1023599) Check that out first and see if there are any questions afterwards. :D
Zachariah 04-26-08, 07:11 PM	Haha, so true. I always forget about the search function *Doh*, anyway thanks, i check it out.
Dash Branaghan 04-26-08, 07:43 PM	It has a lot of what you might be looking for so...if there is anything that isn't covered by it then we'll be happy to help.
The Great Alchemist 04-26-08, 08:46 PM	It thinks its pretty common sense that they just need to work together and not be idiots. All of the successful evil people in real life from gangs to the mafia to terrorists to oppressive politicians always work together with their fellow evil people for their mutual benefit. Evil people ultimately want to achieve their goals - often involving gaining money or power - and as long as the fellow party members help achieve those ends then the fellow party members should be safe. Evil people can also be friends with other and have loyalty. I find it strange that so often problems arise from evil party members, maybe it speaks to the lack of common sense that D&D players often have.
Zachariah 04-26-08, 09:09 PM	Yeah I get what you mean, it makes more sense to work together and isnt against being evil at all. The thing is, that when players play evil they tend to exegerate it. They often seem to feel that they must play the evil character in the same way most evil outsiders seem to fuction. Although those are a different type of evil then an overall evil person, atleast in most of the cases. So, they go for the bringers of death and destruction type of evil, which is a problem for most campaigns.
The Great Alchemist 04-26-08, 09:33 PM	Yeah I get what you mean, it makes more sense to work together and isnt against being evil at all. The thing is, that when players play evil they tend to exegerate it. They often seem to feel that they must play the evil character in the same way most evil outsiders seem to fuction. Although those are a different type of evil then an overall evil person, atleast in most of the cases. So, they go for the bringers of death and destruction type of evil, which is a problem for most campaigns. Maybe it would be a good idea to have players come up with well developed evil characters with realistic motivations. Evil people have motivations - the thing that makes them evil is what they're willing to do to accomplish those goals. One big problem, as you suggest, is motivating an evil party. I have found that to be the case myself, because a character's morality is so often a good adventure hook - save the damsel in distress, etc. If the evil players have a motivation more complex than personal gain then it can be easier, which is why it might be good for the characters to be well developed and have detailed backgrounds. I played one evil magic using character who was trying to find the secrets of immortality - that was his ultimate goal and though he wanted wealth and power, immortality was his ultimate goal - which he eventually got. I played another player who was evil and was a member of a powerful noble family. Though he was evil he also cared about his family and their political success. In both cases the characters were fairly easy to motivate. I think that alternatively presenting potential rewards that they can gain from a course of action or problems that they need to avoid may work. You don't want to just have them focus on avoiding problems because that gets frustrating for players and don't just focus on always getting the next reward because that gets boring. You may be able to create interesting motivations in the course of a game as well. Maybe somebody really wrongs the party or a party member - then revenge could become a good motivation. Maybe the party kills some random innocent person who has a high level relative - then the party has an enemy that they must contend with. I can see you already have a guild that the party is associated with - this can be a good motivation as it can send them on missions or it can have troubled with the law where the players need to help. Maybe the players care about rising within the ranks. The Druid, though evil, should have some religious/spiritual based motivations that should compel him to certain ends. Sometimes a good random quest can be based on a problem that the players experience more than goal they try to achieve. If a party gets captured by bandits, whether the party is full of Paladins or Necromancers, their course of action is going to be similar and they will be motivated to work together. Maybe in avoiding some problem that arises, a potential for profit can arise that they should pursue - and having become close freinds from avoiding danger together, they have no trouble working together for their mutual benefit. Though, if you really don't want them to fight each other and you think they might, just tell them out of character that party conflict (at least to the point of violence) is not acceptable. I think that too many players (for some weird reason) think that "evil party" means "lets kill each other" instead of realistic evil. A good starting point would be to make it clear that you want the party to get along and to save their evil for the NPC's.
Auspex7 04-26-08, 10:10 PM	i've run and played in a LOT of evil games. here's a simple suggestion, and some related highlights... CIVIL WAR!!! the guild leader & his right hand are slain. obviously, this should be a very difficult thing for anyone to accomplish, so the PCs know this means Serious Stuff is going down... elements to the game: 1. 2 (or more) factions begin forming within the guild... each backing a different candidate for leadership... the guild does remain whole, but... 2. shadow war... there are 'run-ins' between guildmates, and rumors are rampant. no one wants to roll over on anyone else, and EVERYONE is keeping things tightly under wraps, trying to prevent the guild's adversaries (the city watch, various shady-dealers, ambitious guilds from other cities...etc) swoop in for the kill. 3. dynamics, roles, and niches change. information brokers are still useful, but a lot of the people closest to the action in the civil war are assasins themselves. people who are notoriously tight-lipped are suddenly the ones with the most relevant information. everyone seeks to better their position, or at least carve out a comfortable niche... since no one seems to know who killed the guildmaster & his right hand, everyone is jumpy, and people are going out of their way to stay in strong alliances (the dynamic becomes a LOT like Survivor in this way), and are looking to weaken their adversaries without exposing themselves to risk. 4. where do the PCs fit in? does the guild have a tradition tied to bloodlines? how are they perceived by the guild at large (ie, are they upstarts who just happen to be related to the dead guys, or are they believed to be capable, or to even have a hereditary claim of some sort?)... 5. they have each other, and that's all they know. their fates are tied together at this point.
Zachariah 04-26-08, 10:14 PM	Thanks, that was some really useful advice, good insight. I'll try to implement some of your suggestion. The druid does have some sort of goal, he wants to become the ultimate vermin lord and raise a guild or something like that. The warblade wants revange for his fathers death (the guys who plays him like heck and slashing so I pretty much made that his goal). I dont know about the rogue, though. Anyway, it was very useful :D
Chaoslords 04-26-08, 10:17 PM	Here's an idea, for you. Have them swear undying loyalty and fealty to the guild or leader of the guild or to whoever. Then have them sign a contract. It's all part of a ritual that all members must go through and sign, then make the players go through the motions of cutting there hands and bleeding into a bowl. Then sign the contract with their blood. And hand them an actual contract to sign with a red pen. After they do, tell them their HP go up by 10. If they ask why don't tell them. "They just do." The cut on their hand heals up when their HP goes up but it leaves a scar that resemble the Guild's seal. Here's the kicker, if they ever betray one another, or another guild member or the guild itself. That could be from not excepting a mission on behalf of the guild or its leaders. Whatever you deem as not fulfilling their end of the contract. Show them the contract they signed. If they still proceed down that path. Then tell that the scar on their hand opens up and starts bleeding. The 10 HP goes away and they bleed 1 HP every round. The wound can't be healed by any means. Now you can kill them here, but that wouldn't be any fun now would it. When they get to 1 hp the bleeding stops, but now the word traitor is written across their forehead, chest, arm or where ever seems appropriate. The contract is also stained with the words traitor on it. So now the guild knows and is looking to take them out for their betrayal. But they have 1 HP, how long do you think they would last with a guild of assassins looking for them? I'd have the HP com back normally but not by magic. And who is going to do business with someone that has the word traitor carved across their forehead?
Zachariah 04-26-08, 10:29 PM	Well actually only the guild leaders right hand guy was slain. The guild leader knows more about it then he admits, because he was there when it happened. But he keeps it to him self, because he doesnt want to lose reputation. The guy who killed the right hand guy was a wandering warrior priest, an extreemly powerful guy who goes around hunting down any kind of evil. He will be a nasty match up for the PC later on. They are on a new continent. I like the idea that they are stranded somewhere with no clue where the hell they are. Ill work from there.
Zachariah 04-26-08, 10:41 PM	Chaoslords: I already have something like that, called the bloodseeker's oath. Although the nice bleeding to 1 hp is very nice idea. I like it :devil: