Post/Author/DateTime	Post
lord_filth 01-01-07, 01:24 PM	I'm trying to build my world for a new campaignbut I can't seem to get it right. Every map I draw turns out looking too odd to be a believable world (examples including a large brick wall dividing a desert from a swamp and tropical rainforests in the foothills of arctic mountains) Does anyone have any advice for: Map Drawing Believable Geography Political Structure My player is a stickler for accuracy and I'm really nervous about him picking holes in my world, particularly in the political side as this is a major point of expertise for him. Any advice would be greatly apprieciated. Thanks in advance :D
Regular_K 01-01-07, 02:32 PM	Well think of it like this when you make geography. Deserts are usually near mountains, on one side though, and also more near the centerly located, or where ever it's hot in your world. Swamps are usually near other large bodies of water, and forests don't have to be far from swamps. Forests really, can be, and are everywhere, except near deserts. Mountains would probably seperate forests and deserts. Take alot of examples from the real world. And if all else fails, you could just use a premade campagin setting (although that's less fun). Also, if your player starts picking at the world, especially the politcal part, just say that's the way it is. It isn't a real world country, so any strange laws may be in affect. Heck, I once made a law in a town that you couldn't carry packs, pouchs, or weapons, and you had to check them at the main gate.
Tempustormwand 01-01-07, 02:36 PM	I'm trying to build my world for a new campaignbut I can't seem to get it right. Every map I draw turns out looking too odd to be a believable world (examples including a large brick wall dividing a desert from a swamp and tropical rainforests in the foothills of arctic mountains) Does anyone have any advice for: Map Drawing Believable Geography Political Structure My player is a stickler for accuracy and I'm really nervous about him picking holes in my world, particularly in the political side as this is a major point of expertise for him. Any advice would be greatly apprieciated. Thanks in advance :D Get a book like "inroduction to geography" that is a good start. keep the political structure very simple if you do not understand politics or history very well. Model your maps after maps you think are good quality. DO NOT COMMIT THE STORMWAND FALLACIES.
MasterOfPsychic 01-01-07, 03:00 PM	Map Making: You are probably good enough to draw basic maps yourself. Even if you have no clue whatsoever when it comes to drawing. But if you want nice maps, I recommend using a program. Fractal Mapper is a great one, but not free. If you know a great artist, ask him/her if (s)he could make you a good map, if you provide a scetch. Believable Geography: That is a -hard- matter, if you want things to be -real-, but you don't need to make things that, as it is just a game. Get a book, if you want things better than that. Political Structure: One main point: "Who benefits?". People often do whatever benefits them the most. In most cases that includes keeping other people under control. Rember, in the middle ages, there were no such things as human rights, and right to property. People were often seen upon as parts of the land. If you bought the land, you "got" the people living there as well. Eh... That didn't get you very long did it? Just try to keep the basics in the start. Divide the lands (and towns) into different factions, and note down their interests. For instance like this: King - Wants everyone to be happy and live a good life. Nobles - Wants more land, and are willing to kill for it. Church of Pelor - Wants to spread the word and help commoners. Church of Nerull - Wants to destory the church of pelor. And then you work things out from that. And try make more believable motivations than that ;) Did that help you at all?
lord_filth 01-01-07, 03:46 PM	Thanks for all the advice, I think I'm fairly confident what's happening now. The geography issue I've decided shall be resolved through the backstory, a magically manipulated landscape or a piece of land torn from Limbo depending on which creation tales the PC decides to believe, so any inconsistencies with reality can be taken care of by saying "That's just the way the gods/council of dragons/powers of Lmbo made it" The political structure I've also worked out, a variation on the fuedal system that places a council of dragons at the head of control (thus replacing a single king) and then notables from several races depending on the area controlling regions, baronies etc. Does that sound ok?
Free1983 01-02-07, 12:25 PM	The political structure I've also worked out, a variation on the fuedal system that places a council of dragons at the head of control (thus replacing a single king) and then notables from several races depending on the area controlling regions, baronies etc. I like the limbo story. Man, you just found an excuse to explain every single anomaly in the world :D . I do have some questions about your political structure. Will there be only one land or is this council of dragons a supranational institution Your dragons better be good-aligned, otherwise the councilconcept won't live very long or your dragons are going to exploit the land they govern bigtime The former point should also make clear that you'll have an evil world, with evil laws, and lots of evildo'ers :emp: (if you pick random dragons) (I'm sorry but the dragons keep bothering me) Dragons like it to be in contol, but they also like to be in TOTAL control. This goes for the evil ones and for the good ones Any advice I gave was just my opinion. If you have another opinion about dragons or anything else, do make things your way of course I recommend to put more than one country in your world. True, this could complicate some things, but on the other hand, you'll have far more dynamics in your world. Also consider to build in some nations that are enemies. They don't have to be at war, but just not liking each other could also spice things up, think of bordercontrols, smuggling, etc.. Also this gives you a good start to begin a war (which I'm sure you'll be tempted to start into your world because it has a huge potential of questhooks and besides, war is fun :devil: (well fictional ones). If you do go for more than one country, try to put in some different governing ways like: an empire, a democracy, a theocracy, a oligarchy, etc. It's really handy to bring your players in a completely different setting (well, sort of) just by popping them over the border. Sure hope this helps, cheers
lord_filth 01-02-07, 12:38 PM	The council of dragons is a dwindling force, too many dragon hunting adventuring parties these days, so has gone from being a complete global power trip to only a handful of the most powerful dragons, good dragons I should point out, and are only in control of the imediate region around their base of operations. There is a neighbouring land that doesn't care for the council and is preparing to take to war against them. The church of Hextor controls the hostile land and can't stand the power that the good dragons have so near by. There is also civil war brewing in the form of several large minotaur tribes uniting under the banner of a single, extremley intelligent and powerful, warlord. In other words, the council is in trouble and saving it is going to be the najor thrust of the campaign, eventually culminating in several large battes and a huge showdown at the council's volcanic base. I've now decided that, since I have a good overview of whats going on I'm going to scale down my world-building to an inside out aproach and fit that into my broader, if so far vague, picture. Will this approach work do you think?
Millennium 01-02-07, 12:38 PM	When it comes to making believable landmasses, you can go a long way by exploiting the concept of continental drift. Start by making a large but empty map with nothing but ocean (Robinson projection (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robinson_projection) works best for this exercise). Then cut out a reasonably large shape from paper, representing this world's "Pangaea": a single landmass which would eventually break up to form your world's continents. Cut your Pangaea paper into somewhere between 5 and 10 large pieces (for Earth you would use 7). Place the reassembled pieces on your map, then slide and rotate them around. The only rule for this part is that a piece cannot slide or rotate through a piece that is already there. You may want to move the pieces in larger groups for a while and then split them apart, mimicking what's believed to have happened on our Earth. When you get to a formation that pleases you, take a few minutes to memorize their formation. Better still, take a picture in case you completely forget, but do not trace the pieces. Once you think you've got things reasonably memorized, pick the pieces up and redraw their outlines from memory. Unless you have a truly photographic memory and awesome fine motor skills the outlines will vary somewhat from the clean lines of your cutouts, but that's OK: the "flaws" in your drawing will help to replicate the process of erosion. Voila: believable continents. Sprinkle with islands to taste. At this point, you can start plotting out major rivers. Any small, relatively sharp point "into" the continent (i.e. from the ocean) is a good candidate for a river delta. Keep it down to one or two really major rivers for a given continent; if you want more large rivers then feed them into the major river. Smaller rivers can feed directly into the ocean, or possibly into bays and estuaries. Next up are mountains. In general, each continent should have at least one mountain range, and if a continent has any major rivers then there should be a mountain range somewhere on each side of the river. These mountain ranges don't have to be close to the edge of the continent or river -in fact, they usually shouldn't be- but they should be present, because they represent high points in the land mass. In continents with major rivers, the mountain ranges should usually be closer to the river than they are to the coast. Finally, keep in mind that there can be exceptions to these rules in your world. This method of world-building only holds to some meager knowledge of general theories, and there are exceptions even in the real world. It's only a general guide. One last thing: you'll notice that I didn't touch on the politics of your world here, but only the land mass. There's a reason for this: once you have the landmasses plotted out, the borders of your countries will jump out at you relatively easily. Strategic points that countries want to hold will be easier to see, and the really valuable strategic points can easily become war-torn areas in constant conflict. Cities will pop up in places that are either very easy to get to (for trade) or very hard to get to (for defense), and the tradeoffs involved in this will help shape the city's character. If you really want to collapse this all into one sentence, I'd say it's this: draw your physical map before you draw your political map.
Free1983 01-02-07, 05:28 PM	If you really want to collapse this all into one sentence, I'd say it's this: draw your physical map before you draw your political map. Ow, ow, I really second this. I do this too! :D I've now decided that, since I have a good overview of whats going on I'm going to scale down my world-building to an inside out aproach and fit that into my broader, if so far vague, picture. Will this approach work do you think? This can definitly work. I like the ideas about the different factions in the two nations. Seems like you can make a nice story arc out of that. One remark though, if I make a world, I always start with the big picture, working that out a little, but only get things detailed if my players get around. The advantage is that I have lots of places to place all kinds of races/special classes available to players. Try to keep in mind that you want maximum liberty of choice for your players (they'll like it) and that if you haven't planned for any dwarves in your world, you might have a hard time helping the player with his/her background, but if you want to be able to give all options (well all options you want to give them anyway) to your players, you should plan a little ahead. good luck
Toloran 01-02-07, 07:27 PM	Another thing you have to consider is "Where does it all come from?" I don't mean like where did the world come from, but how do various civilizations/cities/countries take care of the day to day things? Where do they get food and water from? Or other raw materials? That kind of thing. Saying "magic" is kind of a cop out though but it is useable when combined with other things (like dwarves living off of special mushrooms). For locations of cities, keep in mind that cities are generally placed for one of three locations: 1) Good for trade. These spots are at intersections of waterways, or otherwise on rivers. They also occur at the intersection of major roads across the land (generally between other major trading/production hubs). These cities tend to be more focused on wealth and trading then other things. These cities also are less likely to be self sufficent (ie, they import more food then they generate). These cities are useful in stories because if they get cut off from their sources, they can be in deep trouble. 2) Good for defense. These spots are easily defendable. Any place that is easily defendable can be a good spot for any sort of major government body. Like the previous kind, they are also not always self sufficent but aare more often so then the previous kind. These kind of cities generally have a heavily fortified section (that is the easiest to defend), and a larger section that is where most of the citizens live. During any sort of major attack, the citizens will generally withdraw into the fortified section until the danger has passed. 3) Good for resources. These are located at places with some major natural resource: Gem and metal mines are common ones. These towns are often similar to the merchant towns because they generate most of their wealth off of trade. Another thing you should do when creating a world is to create history for places. A lot of strange geological and political features can be easily explained off with a decent history (Dragonlance did this a lot, explaining away the reason why the climate in certain areas is so strange by blaming it on dragon tyrants who changed the land to their own preferences).
Always-Late 01-02-07, 07:30 PM	http://www.crystaldragon.com/ You could try looking at that. I haven't tried it, but it seems workable.