Advice please? wealth and treasure placement [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advice please? wealth and treasure placement [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Cyan Wisp
08-20-04, 01:40 AM DMs – I’d like some opinions on how to handle characters amassing wealth.

For instance…what percentage of “wealth” do you think should consist of:

* Gold, art, gems
* Equipment & weapons (mundane or masterwork)
* Permanent magic items
* Charged magic items
* One-use items

And, for purposes of monitoring the “wealth”, do you handle it as if PCs are buying equipment (i.e. add up total gold value of all assets, using full market prices for all items?)

EXAMPLE: to take character from 2nd-3rd level, need 2000gp
* Gold: 381gp
* Equipment: 2 thunderstones (60gp), MW shield (159gp)
* Permanent magic items: breastplate+1 (1350gp)
* Charged magic items: -
* One-use items: potion of cure lt wounds (50gp)

Not enough gold? Should the potion and thunderstones, being a one-use item, be counted as half-value? Are the ratios about right?

I know there are no hard fast rules for this (or are there?). I would just appreciate some feedback on how YOU do it…

I prefer to pick treasure, not randomly roll it, and I cringe at the thought of “magic shops” (except for potions) . I would prefer characters to either find it or make it, so I’m tailoring a magical kit for each character, including what they will find each level.

Thank you all (hopeful, huh?) :)
PenderGrass
08-20-04, 05:21 AM 2nd or 3rd level and you are already giving them magical armor????
MarkB
08-20-04, 05:29 AM Don't roll on the random-treasure-tables if you don't want to, but do refer to them and take note of the approximate percentage chance of finding each type of item. From there, you can work out approximately what proportions to give out each type of treasure in, depending upon level.
astute1
08-20-04, 09:37 AM For Monsters and other challenges (traps) I use the random treasure tables, with some discretion. I don't put in things that seem to powerful or too weak. I also limit the number of scrolls/potions that end up in one treasure hoard, since at low levels the party ends up with more of these then they can typically use. Intelligent monsters will usually use whatever of their treasure they can.

NPCs have "store bought" treasure, which is exactly the kind of stuff they use. This typically makes NPCs a bit better for looting than monsters, but there's always the odd chance that something better ends up in a monster hoard, because the treasures are random.

Very often I "clump" treasure. If there are three CR5 encounters, one CR6 and one CR7 in a single adventure, the party might find one big treasure pile. In my last adventure it was a big chest that the thieves' guild was moving to another location. The party defeated their low level guards in the beginning and finally caught up to the treasure chest near the end. It had treasure corresponding to all the fights.

For purposes of monitoring the wealth - if you are assigning the right amount of XP per encounter, and dropping the right amount of treasure per encounter, you should hit your target numbers. If you assign bonus XP, you also have to give out bonus treasure, or your characters will end up high level with poor equipment (found this out the hard way.) There's a list of "average treasure values by CR" in the DMG - as long as you generally follow that, and remember that any time you give XP for an encounter, the players should also be earning a corresponding amount of treasure, you should be OK. You don't have to give out the treasure right away, either.

For example: I award some XP for roleplaying encounters. So, the players pass a critical roleplaying encounter - which earns them XP. Sometime later in the adventure, I add treasure to an existing treasure pile, to correspond to the CR of the RPing encounter. The players don't notice, they just think they found a bigger treasure pile, but the numbers still balance.
gerald_toronto
08-20-04, 10:02 AM In our campaign there was an interesting solution to this question, the money part anyway.

The party had an adventure which dealt with a book store. In a secret room beneath the bookstore, they found about 20-30 very rare books, worth 1,000's of gold pieces each. However just try finding someone who can pay 15,000 gold for a book.

So, what results with this solution is an "unlimited" source of wealth, but as the DM, you only have to provide a buyer when you want to. And if the players insist that they are going to try to sell the books then that becomes an adventure of its own as they start travelling from big city to big city searching for wealthy nobles who read.

You don't have to use books, but any solution like this provides the DM with a quick solution should the party prove to be under-equipped.
DeWayne
08-21-04, 12:32 AM A lot of the treasure in my adventures is in the form of items, and I always try to choose items that make sense. For example, if the party has just taken out a wizard in his tower, they're a lot more likely to find reference books and alchemical equipment than they are to find a magic sword. If they take out a bandit camp they're more likely to find trade goods than coins - think what was actually being hauled in those caravans they raided. If they take out an evil temple they're going to find unholy symbols, altar settings, etc.

The next biggest catagory is 'personal equipment' - weapons & armor for fighter types, spellbooks & wands, etc. for wizards, and so on.

I'm always amazed how seldom players think to consider these two catagories as 'treasure.'

Next comes traditional 'treasure' - coins, gems and jewelry, magic items, etc.

I usually don't include artwork, but when I do it's valuable. A pain in the butt to get back to town (statues are heavy and paintings are fragile), but it's worth a lot - often more than everything else combined.

Occasionally (i.e. 'rarely') I'll toss in something different just to see how the party handles it. I once ran a 1st level adventure in which a kobold adept hired the party to kill some troglodytes that had taken over the kobold tribe. He was happy to use one group he hated (the PCs) to take out another group he hated (the troglodytes). The kobolds had a copper mine so he paid the party in copper ingots - 500 lbs of copper ingots in the middle on the wilderness (read: mountainous terrain and no road to haul a wagon over).

Hope this helps. Just remember most monsters/NPCs aren't going to leave money laying around for adventurers to walk off with - they're going to use it for something.
krichaiushii
08-21-04, 08:56 PM If you are playing intelligent enemies, then it is likely your PCs recover very little in the way of one-shot items, as intelligent NPCs should use them to advantage.

Cyan Wisp, you say that "I would prefer characters to either find it or make it, so I’m tailoring a magical kit for each character, including what they will find each level."

Watch how specifically you tailor those magic kits, or your players may come to rely on them, instead of crafting or commissioning the really good stuff.

My advice is to provide items that are good for class archetypes, but not necessarily your PCs in particular.

For example, all wizards like to find new spells, either on scrolls or in spellbooks. If your PC should be a specialist wizard, don't drop spells of his specialty in his lap, sprinkle in a decent amount of his opposition school spells as loot.

Another thought is to provide items that many people can use, and let the PCs roleplay out who gets it. Cloaks of resistance and rings of protection, for example, help everyone, but certain classes need them more.

Lastly, I clump treasures as astute1, and very often handpick general topics (like magic armor), then spice things up with a random roll (what type of magic armor) to keep things interesting. NPCs that are likely to see combat vs PCs get hand-picked loot, as there are some items that I may not want my PCs to have. So keeping said items out of the hands of NPCs keeps them out of the hands of the PCs who will inevitably defeat them and take their gear.
Hero of Sshamath
08-22-04, 01:18 AM Althought it's "new math", so to speak, in general when calculating a PC's wealth; I consider Art Objects and Goods and other such "non-weapon or monetary" wealth at full value...even though most of it can't/shouldn't be bought back at full price.

I allow PC's to sell back such items to a merchant at 50% original value. With a sucessful CHA or Diplomacy check I'll add a few percentage points back on...o0( Never exceeding 75% of market value...I mean c'mon...It's USED)

If you're not using the tables in the DMG, as previously stated...aim to be about on par with what they say...o0( So, it may be more simple just to use them...you're looking at them either way...)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cyan Wisp 08-20-04, 01:40 AM	DMs – I’d like some opinions on how to handle characters amassing wealth. For instance…what percentage of “wealth” do you think should consist of: * Gold, art, gems * Equipment & weapons (mundane or masterwork) * Permanent magic items * Charged magic items * One-use items And, for purposes of monitoring the “wealth”, do you handle it as if PCs are buying equipment (i.e. add up total gold value of all assets, using full market prices for all items?) EXAMPLE: to take character from 2nd-3rd level, need 2000gp * Gold: 381gp * Equipment: 2 thunderstones (60gp), MW shield (159gp) * Permanent magic items: breastplate+1 (1350gp) * Charged magic items: - * One-use items: potion of cure lt wounds (50gp) Not enough gold? Should the potion and thunderstones, being a one-use item, be counted as half-value? Are the ratios about right? I know there are no hard fast rules for this (or are there?). I would just appreciate some feedback on how YOU do it… I prefer to pick treasure, not randomly roll it, and I cringe at the thought of “magic shops” (except for potions) . I would prefer characters to either find it or make it, so I’m tailoring a magical kit for each character, including what they will find each level. Thank you all (hopeful, huh?) :)
PenderGrass 08-20-04, 05:21 AM	2nd or 3rd level and you are already giving them magical armor????
MarkB 08-20-04, 05:29 AM	Don't roll on the random-treasure-tables if you don't want to, but do refer to them and take note of the approximate percentage chance of finding each type of item. From there, you can work out approximately what proportions to give out each type of treasure in, depending upon level.
astute1 08-20-04, 09:37 AM	For Monsters and other challenges (traps) I use the random treasure tables, with some discretion. I don't put in things that seem to powerful or too weak. I also limit the number of scrolls/potions that end up in one treasure hoard, since at low levels the party ends up with more of these then they can typically use. Intelligent monsters will usually use whatever of their treasure they can. NPCs have "store bought" treasure, which is exactly the kind of stuff they use. This typically makes NPCs a bit better for looting than monsters, but there's always the odd chance that something better ends up in a monster hoard, because the treasures are random. Very often I "clump" treasure. If there are three CR5 encounters, one CR6 and one CR7 in a single adventure, the party might find one big treasure pile. In my last adventure it was a big chest that the thieves' guild was moving to another location. The party defeated their low level guards in the beginning and finally caught up to the treasure chest near the end. It had treasure corresponding to all the fights. For purposes of monitoring the wealth - if you are assigning the right amount of XP per encounter, and dropping the right amount of treasure per encounter, you should hit your target numbers. If you assign bonus XP, you also have to give out bonus treasure, or your characters will end up high level with poor equipment (found this out the hard way.) There's a list of "average treasure values by CR" in the DMG - as long as you generally follow that, and remember that any time you give XP for an encounter, the players should also be earning a corresponding amount of treasure, you should be OK. You don't have to give out the treasure right away, either. For example: I award some XP for roleplaying encounters. So, the players pass a critical roleplaying encounter - which earns them XP. Sometime later in the adventure, I add treasure to an existing treasure pile, to correspond to the CR of the RPing encounter. The players don't notice, they just think they found a bigger treasure pile, but the numbers still balance.
gerald_toronto 08-20-04, 10:02 AM	In our campaign there was an interesting solution to this question, the money part anyway. The party had an adventure which dealt with a book store. In a secret room beneath the bookstore, they found about 20-30 very rare books, worth 1,000's of gold pieces each. However just try finding someone who can pay 15,000 gold for a book. So, what results with this solution is an "unlimited" source of wealth, but as the DM, you only have to provide a buyer when you want to. And if the players insist that they are going to try to sell the books then that becomes an adventure of its own as they start travelling from big city to big city searching for wealthy nobles who read. You don't have to use books, but any solution like this provides the DM with a quick solution should the party prove to be under-equipped.
DeWayne 08-21-04, 12:32 AM	A lot of the treasure in my adventures is in the form of items, and I always try to choose items that make sense. For example, if the party has just taken out a wizard in his tower, they're a lot more likely to find reference books and alchemical equipment than they are to find a magic sword. If they take out a bandit camp they're more likely to find trade goods than coins - think what was actually being hauled in those caravans they raided. If they take out an evil temple they're going to find unholy symbols, altar settings, etc. The next biggest catagory is 'personal equipment' - weapons & armor for fighter types, spellbooks & wands, etc. for wizards, and so on. I'm always amazed how seldom players think to consider these two catagories as 'treasure.' Next comes traditional 'treasure' - coins, gems and jewelry, magic items, etc. I usually don't include artwork, but when I do it's valuable. A pain in the butt to get back to town (statues are heavy and paintings are fragile), but it's worth a lot - often more than everything else combined. Occasionally (i.e. 'rarely') I'll toss in something different just to see how the party handles it. I once ran a 1st level adventure in which a kobold adept hired the party to kill some troglodytes that had taken over the kobold tribe. He was happy to use one group he hated (the PCs) to take out another group he hated (the troglodytes). The kobolds had a copper mine so he paid the party in copper ingots - 500 lbs of copper ingots in the middle on the wilderness (read: mountainous terrain and no road to haul a wagon over). Hope this helps. Just remember most monsters/NPCs aren't going to leave money laying around for adventurers to walk off with - they're going to use it for something.
krichaiushii 08-21-04, 08:56 PM	If you are playing intelligent enemies, then it is likely your PCs recover very little in the way of one-shot items, as intelligent NPCs should use them to advantage. Cyan Wisp, you say that "I would prefer characters to either find it or make it, so I’m tailoring a magical kit for each character, including what they will find each level." Watch how specifically you tailor those magic kits, or your players may come to rely on them, instead of crafting or commissioning the really good stuff. My advice is to provide items that are good for class archetypes, but not necessarily your PCs in particular. For example, all wizards like to find new spells, either on scrolls or in spellbooks. If your PC should be a specialist wizard, don't drop spells of his specialty in his lap, sprinkle in a decent amount of his opposition school spells as loot. Another thought is to provide items that many people can use, and let the PCs roleplay out who gets it. Cloaks of resistance and rings of protection, for example, help everyone, but certain classes need them more. Lastly, I clump treasures as astute1, and very often handpick general topics (like magic armor), then spice things up with a random roll (what type of magic armor) to keep things interesting. NPCs that are likely to see combat vs PCs get hand-picked loot, as there are some items that I may not want my PCs to have. So keeping said items out of the hands of NPCs keeps them out of the hands of the PCs who will inevitably defeat them and take their gear.
Hero of Sshamath 08-22-04, 01:18 AM	Althought it's "new math", so to speak, in general when calculating a PC's wealth; I consider Art Objects and Goods and other such "non-weapon or monetary" wealth at full value...even though most of it can't/shouldn't be bought back at full price. I allow PC's to sell back such items to a merchant at 50% original value. With a sucessful CHA or Diplomacy check I'll add a few percentage points back on...o0( Never exceeding 75% of market value...I mean c'mon...It's USED) If you're not using the tables in the DMG, as previously stated...aim to be about on par with what they say...o0( So, it may be more simple just to use them...you're looking at them either way...)