Advice with Party [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advice with Party [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TheFlyingAsian
03-02-08, 05:35 PM Hello.

I just started a campaign with four players, which consists of two rogues, a monk, and a barbarian, all level three. The monk is very combat oriented (18 str., Two-Weapon Fighting, etc.), with max ranks in Tumble and Move silently. The barbarian is your average barbarian. The rogues are reasonably combat-oriented, and very movement-oriented, and one has max ranks in all the rogue-ly anti-trap skills.

They absolutely demolish any foes they encounter by the mere virtue of their combat skills.

I was thinking about having a DMPC cleric follow them around, but in that case they still lack magical power. And at early levels, their specialization isn't too much of a problem, but I worry that at higher levels the foes I send against them will either get destroyed by the combat specialization, or challenge the PC's too much because they have no spellpower (except fot Use Magic Device).

So...

Should I just play the campaign like usual and hope they adapt, or should I have specific encounters for them? And what would those specific encounters be like?

I'm sorry if that was poorly worded. If you have questions about this, just ask.

Thanks.
Nephlite
03-02-08, 05:46 PM Hello.

I was thinking about having a DMPC cleric follow them around, but in that case they still lack magical power. And at early levels, their specialization isn't too much of a problem, but I worry that at higher levels the foes I send against them will either get destroyed by the combat specialization, or challenge the PC's too much because they have no spellpower (except fot Use Magic Device).

If they want a Cleric, they just hire a Hireling Cleric.

I just started a campaign with four players, which consists of two rogues, a monk, and a barbarian, all level three. The monk is very combat oriented (18 str., Two-Weapon Fighting, etc.), with max ranks in Tumble and Move silently. The barbarian is your average barbarian. The rogues are reasonably combat-oriented, and very movement-oriented, and one has max ranks in all the rogue-ly anti-trap skills.

They absolutely demolish any foes they encounter by the mere virtue of their combat skills.

Thanks.

So all melee warriors. 3 decent in skills.

They lack arcane utility, Divine healing, and blasting spells.

What encounters have they faced? What foes have they "demolished"? Give examples of what you set against them.
I_roll_ones
03-02-08, 05:47 PM Give them items to use with UMD. Make some custom items to make up for their lack of magic. Maybe boots of fly, or rings of jump, or something to make up for short comings.
TheFlyingAsian
03-02-08, 05:58 PM If they want a Cleric, they just hire a Hireling Cleric.

So all melee warriors. 3 decent in skills.

They lack arcane utility, Divine healing, and blasting spells.

What encounters have they faced? What foes have they "demolished"? Give examples of what you set against them.

I was thinking of having them pick up a cleric tag-along DMPC after this adventure. It'll be easier this way, and then I'll be able to drop hints to them in a less obvious way (they're all sorta new).

They've essentially demolished everything so far. Ogres at level one? Gone in a couple rounds. Ghouls, Ghasts, Grimlocks, all cleaved (cloven? whatever) through by the barbarian, and the monk mopped up. The rogues are getting a little less action, but I'm working on something to let them shine more.

Ummm...I sent them against a Yuan-Ti, and they almost killed her in two hits. She ended up casting Deeper Darkness and calling in her Grimlock minions, and then the party fled.

The main problem I have is that they either overwhelm the enemies with combat, or the PC's can't manage to deal with a not-as-much melee encounter. They're not very imaginitive, and so I'm trying to expose them to my nastier encounters kinda slowly, lest they get too frusterated too quickly.

@I_roll_ones: I plan on doing that once they get to a slightly higher level. It's the early levels (three to six) and the very-high levels I worry about (but I guess once they're high enough level, I'll just unleash stuff upon them n hope they can figure out a way to manage).
Sinfire Titan
03-02-08, 06:22 PM Flying will shut them down completely. A levitating Sorcerer with Magic Missile as the 1st level spell can easily get out of their range and pelt them all to death. Make them realize that they are too melee-dependent, and it will make them think about what they are doing.
TheFlyingAsian
03-02-08, 06:39 PM Oh, I'm quite capable of destroying them. What I need are encounters that aren't too easy, nor impossible.

They're all reasonably inexperienced, and so I don't want to "force" them to play a spellcaster if they don't feel comfordable doing so.
Sinfire Titan
03-02-08, 07:07 PM Oh, I'm quite capable of destroying them. What I need are encounters that aren't too easy, nor impossible.

They're all reasonably inexperienced, and so I don't want to "force" them to play a spellcaster if they don't feel comfordable doing so.

Make them fight a Will o' Wisp. This should do just fine. They need to realize just what it is that they are weak against. As a CR 6, Will o' Wisps are very potent opponents, what with an AC of 26, and a nasty attack to whittle away at the party's reserves. Without the caster in the group, it will be a challenge to them to just hit the thing once, much less find it while it is invisible.
Khazzan
03-02-08, 07:07 PM Maybe combine one of the "standard" encounters (small group of goblins, etc..) with a tougher NPC leader with class levels, preferably a cleric or wizard. Nothing too drastic, but enough that he can buff a few of his minions, making them tougher to kill (thus tying up the barbarian for awhile). Set a few more minions apart from the rest and have them fire volley after volley of ranged attacks at the group from a reasonable distance. Give the ranged weapon minions a level in rogue so that they can gain the extra 1d6 of Sneak Attack damage. Have the caster or cleric summon something to really make the combat chaotic. Hit them with Grease or Entangle early on to slow the "movement-oriented" rogues down a bit.

Give your group examples of how enemies with one or two leaders who direct their attacks can be effective. Since you say that you don't want to slaughter them but challenge them nonetheless, maybe an organized group with varying tactics might slow them down a bit and keep things tense but fun. I see how only 4 characters of 3rd level can be a precarious situation for you, since they might be easily overrun.

Also, I_roll_ones had a good suggestion about using magic items through the rogue's UMD skill... maybe encourage or remind those players about that (in case they are unaware of UMD and its potential).
TheFlyingAsian
03-02-08, 10:20 PM Thanks. Greatly appreciated.
Dragon_Food
03-02-08, 11:02 PM I wouldn't worry about it. Once they reach high level, if they haven't adjusted by then, one of them will be dead, and that player will most likely realize the party gets it ass handed to it when they need magic to succeed. Just let them learn naturally. Controlling players' choices of character classes is no fun for them. Let them realize the game will be more fun once their party is balanced.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheFlyingAsian 03-02-08, 05:35 PM	Hello. I just started a campaign with four players, which consists of two rogues, a monk, and a barbarian, all level three. The monk is very combat oriented (18 str., Two-Weapon Fighting, etc.), with max ranks in Tumble and Move silently. The barbarian is your average barbarian. The rogues are reasonably combat-oriented, and very movement-oriented, and one has max ranks in all the rogue-ly anti-trap skills. They absolutely demolish any foes they encounter by the mere virtue of their combat skills. I was thinking about having a DMPC cleric follow them around, but in that case they still lack magical power. And at early levels, their specialization isn't too much of a problem, but I worry that at higher levels the foes I send against them will either get destroyed by the combat specialization, or challenge the PC's too much because they have no spellpower (except fot Use Magic Device). So... Should I just play the campaign like usual and hope they adapt, or should I have specific encounters for them? And what would those specific encounters be like? I'm sorry if that was poorly worded. If you have questions about this, just ask. Thanks.
Nephlite 03-02-08, 05:46 PM	Hello. I was thinking about having a DMPC cleric follow them around, but in that case they still lack magical power. And at early levels, their specialization isn't too much of a problem, but I worry that at higher levels the foes I send against them will either get destroyed by the combat specialization, or challenge the PC's too much because they have no spellpower (except fot Use Magic Device). If they want a Cleric, they just hire a Hireling Cleric. I just started a campaign with four players, which consists of two rogues, a monk, and a barbarian, all level three. The monk is very combat oriented (18 str., Two-Weapon Fighting, etc.), with max ranks in Tumble and Move silently. The barbarian is your average barbarian. The rogues are reasonably combat-oriented, and very movement-oriented, and one has max ranks in all the rogue-ly anti-trap skills. They absolutely demolish any foes they encounter by the mere virtue of their combat skills. Thanks. So all melee warriors. 3 decent in skills. They lack arcane utility, Divine healing, and blasting spells. What encounters have they faced? What foes have they "demolished"? Give examples of what you set against them.
I_roll_ones 03-02-08, 05:47 PM	Give them items to use with UMD. Make some custom items to make up for their lack of magic. Maybe boots of fly, or rings of jump, or something to make up for short comings.
TheFlyingAsian 03-02-08, 05:58 PM	If they want a Cleric, they just hire a Hireling Cleric. So all melee warriors. 3 decent in skills. They lack arcane utility, Divine healing, and blasting spells. What encounters have they faced? What foes have they "demolished"? Give examples of what you set against them. I was thinking of having them pick up a cleric tag-along DMPC after this adventure. It'll be easier this way, and then I'll be able to drop hints to them in a less obvious way (they're all sorta new). They've essentially demolished everything so far. Ogres at level one? Gone in a couple rounds. Ghouls, Ghasts, Grimlocks, all cleaved (cloven? whatever) through by the barbarian, and the monk mopped up. The rogues are getting a little less action, but I'm working on something to let them shine more. Ummm...I sent them against a Yuan-Ti, and they almost killed her in two hits. She ended up casting Deeper Darkness and calling in her Grimlock minions, and then the party fled. The main problem I have is that they either overwhelm the enemies with combat, or the PC's can't manage to deal with a not-as-much melee encounter. They're not very imaginitive, and so I'm trying to expose them to my nastier encounters kinda slowly, lest they get too frusterated too quickly. @I_roll_ones: I plan on doing that once they get to a slightly higher level. It's the early levels (three to six) and the very-high levels I worry about (but I guess once they're high enough level, I'll just unleash stuff upon them n hope they can figure out a way to manage).
Sinfire Titan 03-02-08, 06:22 PM	Flying will shut them down completely. A levitating Sorcerer with Magic Missile as the 1st level spell can easily get out of their range and pelt them all to death. Make them realize that they are too melee-dependent, and it will make them think about what they are doing.
TheFlyingAsian 03-02-08, 06:39 PM	Oh, I'm quite capable of destroying them. What I need are encounters that aren't too easy, nor impossible. They're all reasonably inexperienced, and so I don't want to "force" them to play a spellcaster if they don't feel comfordable doing so.
Sinfire Titan 03-02-08, 07:07 PM	Oh, I'm quite capable of destroying them. What I need are encounters that aren't too easy, nor impossible. They're all reasonably inexperienced, and so I don't want to "force" them to play a spellcaster if they don't feel comfordable doing so. Make them fight a Will o' Wisp. This should do just fine. They need to realize just what it is that they are weak against. As a CR 6, Will o' Wisps are very potent opponents, what with an AC of 26, and a nasty attack to whittle away at the party's reserves. Without the caster in the group, it will be a challenge to them to just hit the thing once, much less find it while it is invisible.
Khazzan 03-02-08, 07:07 PM	Maybe combine one of the "standard" encounters (small group of goblins, etc..) with a tougher NPC leader with class levels, preferably a cleric or wizard. Nothing too drastic, but enough that he can buff a few of his minions, making them tougher to kill (thus tying up the barbarian for awhile). Set a few more minions apart from the rest and have them fire volley after volley of ranged attacks at the group from a reasonable distance. Give the ranged weapon minions a level in rogue so that they can gain the extra 1d6 of Sneak Attack damage. Have the caster or cleric summon something to really make the combat chaotic. Hit them with Grease or Entangle early on to slow the "movement-oriented" rogues down a bit. Give your group examples of how enemies with one or two leaders who direct their attacks can be effective. Since you say that you don't want to slaughter them but challenge them nonetheless, maybe an organized group with varying tactics might slow them down a bit and keep things tense but fun. I see how only 4 characters of 3rd level can be a precarious situation for you, since they might be easily overrun. Also, I_roll_ones had a good suggestion about using magic items through the rogue's UMD skill... maybe encourage or remind those players about that (in case they are unaware of UMD and its potential).
TheFlyingAsian 03-02-08, 10:20 PM	Thanks. Greatly appreciated.
Dragon_Food 03-02-08, 11:02 PM	I wouldn't worry about it. Once they reach high level, if they haven't adjusted by then, one of them will be dead, and that player will most likely realize the party gets it ass handed to it when they need magic to succeed. Just let them learn naturally. Controlling players' choices of character classes is no fun for them. Let them realize the game will be more fun once their party is balanced.