Aesthetic Druids [Archive] - Wizards Community

Aesthetic Druids [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
F8ED2H8RED
07-28-06, 01:29 PM :confused: In my most resent game a player has taken the two feats that allow a character to become an aesthetic (Book of Exalted Deeds) which gives massive bonuses for not owning any thing of value. When the game first kicked off I allowed him to make and have a pair of Iron Wood Short swords because he’s a druid, and their made from wood. Which means no value per-say.
My problem is Last game he decides to scrap his first two swords and make a new set. Now, because of his level he can make +1 magical Iron Wood Short swords. I don’t think I should allow this for the sake of game balance, but I can’t think of a way to deny it without saying “Because I Said So” as my reason. I hate doing that. Plus I can see the logic behind the mechanics of it. Any thoughts on this topic would be great. Thanks.
Salty_Boy
07-28-06, 01:36 PM I believe the term you're looking for is "ascetic", though I'm sure Druids are allowed to feel pretty just as much as any other class. I assume you're talking about Vow of Poverty which, if I recall correctly, precludes ownership of any magical items at all. Would these Iron Wood swords not qualify as magical items and be disallowed by the Vow? I don't have the BoED in front of me, so correct me if I'm wrong.
Tormsskull
07-28-06, 01:37 PM How is he making magic weapons? Don't those require money to make? Where is he getting the money from?

I think you're talking about Vow of Poverty, IIRC it means he can't own things worth over a certain amount of money. Magic swords are worth money, that means his vow requires him not to own them. It isn't a "Because I said so" it a "Because that's the vow you took".
DM Zoc
07-28-06, 01:39 PM It's not that he can't have items of value, it's that he shouldn't want items of value. Anyone who is of a mindset to want powerful magical weapons is not of the mindset that allows for self-empowerment.

It's kind of like paladins with backstabbing. Paladins are never forbidden from backstabbing, but anyone who wants to fight dirty does not have the makings of a paladin.
Paxar
07-28-06, 01:42 PM Ironwood is a spell that creates iron wood items, it is temporary (which means that you're going to have to scrap and remake them eventually), and it is part of being a druid of that level. Plus, it's a 6th level spell which means your druid is a minimum of level 11, and I can't see +1 swords causing an imbalance.

Note: I was unable to find "aesthetic" in the BoED, but I assume it involves taking the Vow of Poverty feat (be careful when allowing that)
utilitarian
07-28-06, 02:03 PM I'm ASSUMING you're referring to the totally broken Vow of Poverty.

In which case, he can't have anything of value, and Ironwood items are certainly of value, to say nothing of magic items.

Honestly all it should say on the possessions section of his sheet is "quarterstaff, rations, clothes, divine focus, spell components"

Anything more is a possession. What he can do with spells he can do with spells, but otherwise no. Even a simple sword is too much.

On the other hand, Vow of Poverty is broken beyond all hope of repair in the first place so who gives a yak
Aufenshauft
07-28-06, 02:34 PM Two possible options, depending on what you want to do.

Casting the spell on the swords is a legal action and as it is not permanent, then it works. The character just screwed himself for no reason, though.

At 11th level, all weapons you wield are treated as +2 weapons- you don't even gain any effects from the casting as those bonuses don't stack.

In order to get two of these ironwood weapons, the character has violated the oath they took in two ways.

1) The character may only have one weapon in their possession at any time.
2) The character may only possess a simple weapon at any time.

If the character actually did this, you are within your rights using the rules specifically written out right next to the benefits of having the feat to revoke the feat and any other exalted feat gained through it irrevocably for the character's existance.

So, if you want this sort of thing to end, just say that it sounds kind of fishy and he should check his rulebooks on this sort of thing. If he continues to adventure this way, take the feat away as he is not trying to live up to the spirit of the feat- plus he is an idiot who didn't read the books for his own character.

If you want the character to survive and keep the friend, then just say the reasons why you wouldn't want to do this as above.

BTW, the feat is relatively weak in the end, as you don't get any magical items or have the ability to profit in general. The character is assumed to get a share of the booty for charity, so don't accept that out. The character must also remain exalted, so don't accept that out either. Just having the clothes on your back sounds robust, but make sure the stable roof leaks on him to get the point accross. In addition, you loose a lot of flexibility with no items. Just give him a wall to climb or beg for teleports to follow the party and watch him cry.
Tytalus
07-30-06, 01:23 AM I'm ASSUMING you're referring to the totally broken Vow of Poverty.

Please don't try to force your opinions on us. VoP is strong at low levels, but hardly broken.
Atirakis
07-30-06, 01:54 AM He may own
1 Simple Weapon (By RAW)
0 Spell Components (By RAW)
0 Holy Symbols (this was clarified by WoTC)
0 Divine Focuses (If you cant have a holy symbol then you cant have this either, I think...)
0 Anything else he might find useful but cant have because he wants to have Vow of Poverty
Azezel
07-30-06, 04:37 AM He may own
1 Simple Weapon (By RAW)
0 Spell Components (By RAW)
0 Holy Symbols (this was clarified by WoTC)
0 Divine Focuses (If you cant have a holy symbol then you cant have this either, I think...)
0 Anything else he might find useful but cant have because he wants to have Vow of Poverty

I don't have the BoED - but I'm guessing that a Druid should be allowed a Holy Symbol. a Druid's Hly Symbol is typically a sprig of Holly, or Mistletoe - which seem to me to have a cash value of 0cp.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
F8ED2H8RED 07-28-06, 01:29 PM	:confused: In my most resent game a player has taken the two feats that allow a character to become an aesthetic (Book of Exalted Deeds) which gives massive bonuses for not owning any thing of value. When the game first kicked off I allowed him to make and have a pair of Iron Wood Short swords because he’s a druid, and their made from wood. Which means no value per-say. My problem is Last game he decides to scrap his first two swords and make a new set. Now, because of his level he can make +1 magical Iron Wood Short swords. I don’t think I should allow this for the sake of game balance, but I can’t think of a way to deny it without saying “Because I Said So” as my reason. I hate doing that. Plus I can see the logic behind the mechanics of it. Any thoughts on this topic would be great. Thanks.
Salty_Boy 07-28-06, 01:36 PM	I believe the term you're looking for is "ascetic", though I'm sure Druids are allowed to feel pretty just as much as any other class. I assume you're talking about Vow of Poverty which, if I recall correctly, precludes ownership of any magical items at all. Would these Iron Wood swords not qualify as magical items and be disallowed by the Vow? I don't have the BoED in front of me, so correct me if I'm wrong.
Tormsskull 07-28-06, 01:37 PM	How is he making magic weapons? Don't those require money to make? Where is he getting the money from? I think you're talking about Vow of Poverty, IIRC it means he can't own things worth over a certain amount of money. Magic swords are worth money, that means his vow requires him not to own them. It isn't a "Because I said so" it a "Because that's the vow you took".
DM Zoc 07-28-06, 01:39 PM	It's not that he can't have items of value, it's that he shouldn't want items of value. Anyone who is of a mindset to want powerful magical weapons is not of the mindset that allows for self-empowerment. It's kind of like paladins with backstabbing. Paladins are never forbidden from backstabbing, but anyone who wants to fight dirty does not have the makings of a paladin.
Paxar 07-28-06, 01:42 PM	Ironwood is a spell that creates iron wood items, it is temporary (which means that you're going to have to scrap and remake them eventually), and it is part of being a druid of that level. Plus, it's a 6th level spell which means your druid is a minimum of level 11, and I can't see +1 swords causing an imbalance. Note: I was unable to find "aesthetic" in the BoED, but I assume it involves taking the Vow of Poverty feat (be careful when allowing that)
utilitarian 07-28-06, 02:03 PM	I'm ASSUMING you're referring to the totally broken Vow of Poverty. In which case, he can't have anything of value, and Ironwood items are certainly of value, to say nothing of magic items. Honestly all it should say on the possessions section of his sheet is "quarterstaff, rations, clothes, divine focus, spell components" Anything more is a possession. What he can do with spells he can do with spells, but otherwise no. Even a simple sword is too much. On the other hand, Vow of Poverty is broken beyond all hope of repair in the first place so who gives a yak
Aufenshauft 07-28-06, 02:34 PM	Two possible options, depending on what you want to do. Casting the spell on the swords is a legal action and as it is not permanent, then it works. The character just screwed himself for no reason, though. At 11th level, all weapons you wield are treated as +2 weapons- you don't even gain any effects from the casting as those bonuses don't stack. In order to get two of these ironwood weapons, the character has violated the oath they took in two ways. 1) The character may only have one weapon in their possession at any time. 2) The character may only possess a simple weapon at any time. If the character actually did this, you are within your rights using the rules specifically written out right next to the benefits of having the feat to revoke the feat and any other exalted feat gained through it irrevocably for the character's existance. So, if you want this sort of thing to end, just say that it sounds kind of fishy and he should check his rulebooks on this sort of thing. If he continues to adventure this way, take the feat away as he is not trying to live up to the spirit of the feat- plus he is an idiot who didn't read the books for his own character. If you want the character to survive and keep the friend, then just say the reasons why you wouldn't want to do this as above. BTW, the feat is relatively weak in the end, as you don't get any magical items or have the ability to profit in general. The character is assumed to get a share of the booty for charity, so don't accept that out. The character must also remain exalted, so don't accept that out either. Just having the clothes on your back sounds robust, but make sure the stable roof leaks on him to get the point accross. In addition, you loose a lot of flexibility with no items. Just give him a wall to climb or beg for teleports to follow the party and watch him cry.
Tytalus 07-30-06, 01:23 AM	I'm ASSUMING you're referring to the totally broken Vow of Poverty. Please don't try to force your opinions on us. VoP is strong at low levels, but hardly broken.
Atirakis 07-30-06, 01:54 AM	He may own 1 Simple Weapon (By RAW) 0 Spell Components (By RAW) 0 Holy Symbols (this was clarified by WoTC) 0 Divine Focuses (If you cant have a holy symbol then you cant have this either, I think...) 0 Anything else he might find useful but cant have because he wants to have Vow of Poverty
Azezel 07-30-06, 04:37 AM	He may own 1 Simple Weapon (By RAW) 0 Spell Components (By RAW) 0 Holy Symbols (this was clarified by WoTC) 0 Divine Focuses (If you cant have a holy symbol then you cant have this either, I think...) 0 Anything else he might find useful but cant have because he wants to have Vow of Poverty I don't have the BoED - but I'm guessing that a Druid should be allowed a Holy Symbol. a Druid's Hly Symbol is typically a sprig of Holly, or Mistletoe - which seem to me to have a cash value of 0cp.