Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sidious 04-24-04, 05:24 PM	My group is just setting up a sort of "joke" campaign, all evil PC's for when we get slightly tired of my intricate and overdone plot weaving or any one else's story. Since I'm the one with the most focus on the rules and best retention, I'm doing all the character gen work. We're starting at level two: The character I'm working on is an afflicted lycanthrope, ECL +2. Does this mean that the character does not gain a class level until she reaches third, and has two levels of lycanthrope?
Sarig the Genie 04-24-04, 05:26 PM	Sure it's ECL 2? And not LA +2? I though you added animal hit dice to Lycantrophes? Or is that only natural ones? Not sure. But if it's ECL 2 you're right. When you would've reached third level, you can take your first. (always remember; HD + Class + LA = ECL)
Sidious 04-24-04, 05:46 PM	LA +2, sorry...reading a thread on ECL got me confused.
Nyvinyd 04-24-04, 11:42 PM	Lycanthropy as an affliction is not the same thing as lycanthropy as a feature. Look it up at the end of the "lycanthropes" entry in the MM. 3.5
Vanigo 04-25-04, 12:15 AM	Actually, the ECL adjustment is considerably more than the +2 LA because of all the animal HD you get.
Sidious 04-25-04, 12:21 AM	Okay...umm....mind answering my question, however? Or should I not allow the affliction?
Nyvinyd 04-25-04, 03:12 AM	Affliction is an AFFLICTION. It's a DISEASE. When you are AFFLICTED with lycanthropy, you usually don't even know you have it, and can't change form at will to get the bonus for it. Then, once you realize it, if you willingly change, you have to make a save or your alignment changes! LOOK IT UP!
Lord Crimson 04-25-04, 02:16 PM	Honestly, I wouldn't allow it Sidious. An LA of +2 must be added to the creature's base hit dice, which, if it's a werewolf, is another 2, plus one level in a PC class (because most player humanoids don't have an automatic hit die). That means that your 1st level werewolf fighter has an ECL of 5, which makes him the equivalent of a 5th level character for almost all important purposes. Thus, this PC WOULD have 1 level in a class (he would have to be if he's a 1 hit die humanoid as his base creature). But he wouldn't gain another level until he achieved enough XP for 6th level. But he would be too powerful to join a party less than 5th level because he would have abunch of extra hp, a higher attack bonus, a natural armor class in his alternate forms, and the ability to ignore massive amounts of damage from anything not made of silver. Do you understand my reasoning?
Sidious 04-25-04, 03:33 PM	Yup. Thanks for clearing it up.
Shodo Panda 04-25-04, 05:06 PM	Affliction is an AFFLICTION. It's a DISEASE. When you are AFFLICTED with lycanthropy, you usually don't even know you have it, and can't change form at will to get the bonus for it. Then, once you realize it, if you willingly change, you have to make a save or your alignment changes! Actually it depends on the animal you take. Werebear are of good alignment (most of the time), Werewolves are evil, which he is, so no alignment change. Werebears are neutral.
Quenditar 04-25-04, 06:25 PM	Hijacking the topic.... A player in my group is playing a natural werewolf. Is his wolf form still 2HD while his humanoid form is 9HD (9th-level monk)? What about his hybrid form? And is the correct LA +4? (I was DMing that day and, after a quick glance at the rules on lycanthropes, declared +3 LA - better than the +0 LA she thought was appropriate, and so far the character hasn't seemed overpowered.) And yes, the character is LN (taken in by good monks as a child and eventually accepted discipline). What happens when a character acquires a template with an LA during the campaign? The aforementioned afflicted lycanthrope, or a spellcaster deciding to become a lich, for example.
Vanigo 04-25-04, 07:16 PM	No, you keep all your HD in any form. In the case of your monk, he has his 9 monk HD and his 2 animal HD no matter what form he's in. The correct LA is +3, but remember that ECL is LA + HD, not LA + class levels. He's the equivalent of a 14th level character.
Lord Crimson 04-25-04, 08:57 PM	And as for characters acquiring a template in game, you might want to look at the savage progressions section in WotC's D&D site. There are two ways to do this: A) The character gains all template abilities and hit dice immediately and continues to gain XP, but is treated as being at the new ECL (which means lower XP for stuff that other PCs get full xp for). This character will be unable to go up in level UNTIL s/he has compensated for the difference in current XP and the PC's new ECL from the template. B) Use or create a template progression (using the ones at the WotC site or in Savage Species as a guideline). In this case, the PC stays at the same level but MUST spend his next few levels going up in his/her template instead of a PC class. The number of these "template levels" will equal the difference in ECL (accounting for extra HD and LA), and adding template powers, abilities, and hit dice to the PC as s/he gains levels instead of all at once.
Quenditar 04-26-04, 03:29 AM	Originally posted by Vanigo No, you keep all your HD in any form. In the case of your monk, he has his 9 monk HD and his 2 animal HD no matter what form he's in. The correct LA is +3, but remember that ECL is LA + HD, not LA + class levels. He's the equivalent of a 14th level character. Thanks. As usually happens in my group, multiple mistakes (wrong LA and miscomputing hit dice) effectively cancel out. We're a 12th-level party (now 13th, but the monk gained a level too). However, I don't think the monk's player had been adding the extra two HD (need to check the sheet). We'll have to see if it's overpowering once she straightens everything out (and starts adding her strength bonus to melee attack rolls). Maybe the best solution, if she isn't adding her animal HD, is to quietly ignore their existence until the next time someone plays a lycanthrope.