Age and stat increases [Archive] - Wizards Community

Age and stat increases [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
themind
11-21-03, 09:33 AM Ok, lets say an Elven Wizard who eventually becomes a Lich has been around for over 900 years. Would he be getting the stat inceases for "aging" for Int, Wis, Cha for being around for such along time?
dantedarkstar
11-21-03, 09:42 AM I think you gain aging effects as long as you are elf.
Once you become lich, that's it. You don't age - you don't get benefits, but you retain aging bonuses and penalties from the moment you became lich. (but undead don't have Con, so you bypass Con loss)

Remember that liches don't suffer from aging penalties (undead don't age after all) so they shouldn't get bonuses.

I would say thier mindset changes a bit, so they don't actually grow wiser with time.
Winsome
11-21-03, 10:39 AM I suspect that giving undead aging bonuses is asking for trouble.
It wouldn't be unreasonable to give bonuses to skills maybe for living (ish) a long time. The Lich would learn things about tactics of adventurers and manipulating agents and stuff like that. Perhaps a bonus on skills that could be considered to have improved with hundreds of years of life. Or you could say that undead don't age so don't get any bonuses, which would be damn site easier, and closer to the rules
the_fools_wildhunt
11-21-03, 11:08 AM I really see why not.

Age bonus' reflect a learning process and trial by error over a lifeime. Ther is much wisdom in hindsight afterall, the older people have learnt this and it reflects. They have been through it all and act with more caution and precision then a young person because they have life expereince.

Why should this not reflect in an intelligent undead person.
He still learns, still makes errors and making errors leads to knowledge and learning from them equals wisdom.

Maybe you could make it a slower progression though, to reflect that after a time you have seen most things and therefore less for you to learn from.

Maybe if you follow the base progression of the Base Race and times it by 2 or 2.5 it may keep things under control.

For as long as we live or un-live, we learn, we cannot help but learn, it is natural to all thinking beings.
Tzor
11-21-03, 11:33 AM Basically age bonuses are a leftover of the pre 3E system where you didn't get ability bonuses as a function of level. Abilities were more static back then. Spells had an aging component.

Thus for anyone who doesn't suffer the stat penalties of aging, he shouldn't benefit from the stat benefits of aging. This doesn't mean he can't be smarter or wiser or more charismatic, only that he has to do it through experience. Not having to worry about aging, he will have plenty of time to gain the levels needed to advance his stats.
the_fools_wildhunt
11-21-03, 11:48 AM Good Point Tzor

I didn't take into account 2ED vs 3Rd ED +.

I kinda assumed 2nd Ed due to the question being raised at all.

3.0 +, levels are required for the bonus.

You live longer = you learn more = you gain experince = you gain levels = you gain level stat bonus.

Done and Done.
bjorntfh
11-21-03, 01:18 PM Personally, IMC we ruled that those that lived (very) long lifespans beyond mortal years stopped gaining bonuses once thy hit the "venerable" age. YOu got the +6 (or is it +3?) to mental stats, didn't get the penalties if you found a way to avoid them (Monk, Alienist, Lich, etc) but stopped at the "most improvement" due to only age. Any other improvements came from levels instead of age.

Of course we also ruled that you tended to become "disconnected" to the world if you lived more than 4-5 lifetimes. After a point your birth culture is so alien to the present one that you have a hard time adapting to the "strange new world" you're in. (Of course, that's why it's usually smart to not spend 400 years in a dungeon researching spells all night long.)
Araciel
11-21-03, 02:02 PM here's how it works....once you're REALLY old, you will have +3 to all mental stats and -6 to all physical. (unless you happen to be a monk...heheheh)

anyways, this is supposed to reflect real-life, but doesn't...if you ask me, the stat changes should be on a case-by-case basis.

as for the skill bonuses for living for centuries, there's an easy solution to that question: they still gain levels.

a human lich does not get aging penalties if he became a lich at 40 and "lived" past 200, because his BODY is no longer alive, and will not wither, however, the bonuses to mental stats, in my opinion may still accrue....it is to the discretion of the DM, as only the races from the PHB seem to get any focus on these increases. a character's race changes to undead, which i'm assuming will no longer get the RACIALLY defined bonuses or penalties to abilities because of age, as with a lich, there is no "old age", they can conceivably live forever.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
themind 11-21-03, 09:33 AM	Ok, lets say an Elven Wizard who eventually becomes a Lich has been around for over 900 years. Would he be getting the stat inceases for "aging" for Int, Wis, Cha for being around for such along time?
dantedarkstar 11-21-03, 09:42 AM	I think you gain aging effects as long as you are elf. Once you become lich, that's it. You don't age - you don't get benefits, but you retain aging bonuses and penalties from the moment you became lich. (but undead don't have Con, so you bypass Con loss) Remember that liches don't suffer from aging penalties (undead don't age after all) so they shouldn't get bonuses. I would say thier mindset changes a bit, so they don't actually grow wiser with time.
Winsome 11-21-03, 10:39 AM	I suspect that giving undead aging bonuses is asking for trouble. It wouldn't be unreasonable to give bonuses to skills maybe for living (ish) a long time. The Lich would learn things about tactics of adventurers and manipulating agents and stuff like that. Perhaps a bonus on skills that could be considered to have improved with hundreds of years of life. Or you could say that undead don't age so don't get any bonuses, which would be damn site easier, and closer to the rules
the_fools_wildhunt 11-21-03, 11:08 AM	I really see why not. Age bonus' reflect a learning process and trial by error over a lifeime. Ther is much wisdom in hindsight afterall, the older people have learnt this and it reflects. They have been through it all and act with more caution and precision then a young person because they have life expereince. Why should this not reflect in an intelligent undead person. He still learns, still makes errors and making errors leads to knowledge and learning from them equals wisdom. Maybe you could make it a slower progression though, to reflect that after a time you have seen most things and therefore less for you to learn from. Maybe if you follow the base progression of the Base Race and times it by 2 or 2.5 it may keep things under control. For as long as we live or un-live, we learn, we cannot help but learn, it is natural to all thinking beings.
Tzor 11-21-03, 11:33 AM	Basically age bonuses are a leftover of the pre 3E system where you didn't get ability bonuses as a function of level. Abilities were more static back then. Spells had an aging component. Thus for anyone who doesn't suffer the stat penalties of aging, he shouldn't benefit from the stat benefits of aging. This doesn't mean he can't be smarter or wiser or more charismatic, only that he has to do it through experience. Not having to worry about aging, he will have plenty of time to gain the levels needed to advance his stats.
the_fools_wildhunt 11-21-03, 11:48 AM	Good Point Tzor I didn't take into account 2ED vs 3Rd ED +. I kinda assumed 2nd Ed due to the question being raised at all. 3.0 +, levels are required for the bonus. You live longer = you learn more = you gain experince = you gain levels = you gain level stat bonus. Done and Done.
bjorntfh 11-21-03, 01:18 PM	Personally, IMC we ruled that those that lived (very) long lifespans beyond mortal years stopped gaining bonuses once thy hit the "venerable" age. YOu got the +6 (or is it +3?) to mental stats, didn't get the penalties if you found a way to avoid them (Monk, Alienist, Lich, etc) but stopped at the "most improvement" due to only age. Any other improvements came from levels instead of age. Of course we also ruled that you tended to become "disconnected" to the world if you lived more than 4-5 lifetimes. After a point your birth culture is so alien to the present one that you have a hard time adapting to the "strange new world" you're in. (Of course, that's why it's usually smart to not spend 400 years in a dungeon researching spells all night long.)
Araciel 11-21-03, 02:02 PM	here's how it works....once you're REALLY old, you will have +3 to all mental stats and -6 to all physical. (unless you happen to be a monk...heheheh) anyways, this is supposed to reflect real-life, but doesn't...if you ask me, the stat changes should be on a case-by-case basis. as for the skill bonuses for living for centuries, there's an easy solution to that question: they still gain levels. a human lich does not get aging penalties if he became a lich at 40 and "lived" past 200, because his BODY is no longer alive, and will not wither, however, the bonuses to mental stats, in my opinion may still accrue....it is to the discretion of the DM, as only the races from the PHB seem to get any focus on these increases. a character's race changes to undead, which i'm assuming will no longer get the RACIALLY defined bonuses or penalties to abilities because of age, as with a lich, there is no "old age", they can conceivably live forever.