Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Talonz 10-28-05, 08:10 PM	They were disappointed because they 'lost' the adventure on "a single diplomacy check with the riverboat captain" (actually, using aggressive enchantment spells really upset that NPC). That's an interesting term. I'm having some difficulty with the same in my game. The wizard newly introduced to the party tried to charm the other incoming pc that same night, kicking off a hot discussion with the chaotic rogue/priest who highly values individual freedom. Now the wizard is threatening to derail a negotiation with a thieve's gang leader by 'give me 5 minutes with him, we'll find out what we need' threats. I don't mind charm, I just mind how he uses it needlessly or threatens to use it. Hardly seems like Neutral behaviour to me? More like chaotic or even evil at the extreme.
Talonz 10-30-05, 05:28 PM	No comments?
Magness 10-30-05, 05:33 PM	I'm not entirely sure what it is you're asking. Please be more specific.
Bloodtide_the_Red 10-30-05, 06:41 PM	1.The wizard newly introduced to the party tried to charm the other incoming pc that same night, kicking off a hot discussion with the chaotic rogue/priest who highly values individual freedom. If it's realy a Game Stopper, you are well within your rights to say 'PC's can't charm each other(or kill each other). This is more of an Out-Of-Game thing to talk about. Explain that everyone is here to have fun and play in a group. If one person whats to live out his control fantasy, let them go play a video game. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2.Now the wizard is threatening to derail a negotiation with a thieve's gang leader by 'give me 5 minutes with him, we'll find out what we need' threats. Nothing wrong with that....you could even say that's why charm-type spells were made in the first place. I think it's a good idea to charm a gang member, or anyone else that you might think will lie to you. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't mind charm, I just mind how he uses it needlessly or threatens to use it. Hardly seems like Neutral behaviour to me? More like chaotic or even evil at the extreme. Charm is not an Evil spell, and can easly fit into Netural behavior. Charm is in fact more a spell of Law(ful) then chaotic, and a charm is only evil if you have them do evil acts. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now, what you might want to do is change the way Charm Person works- 1.The spell makes your target your 'best freind', but does NOT make them a mind dead zombie. For example, the guard captain will not tell his best freind the Kings password because he took an oath or simply does not want to tell his best freind.(it's the same idea with any secret, if you tell anyone, even your best freind, there is a chance of it getting out). Or, of course, they may not know anything.....all the bandit knows is 'black cloak guy told us to do it and gave us gold up front' 2.Folks with Int's of 5 or more will know, at least that charm spells exist and take protections. For example, if someone starts to 'wave their hands around' they would react. A good trick, a classic in my game, is to always be with a group of three people. That makes it harder to charm three of them, and for extra protection have one hidden nearby watching. Naturaly there are plenty of spells and items too. 3.'Up' the fantasy of your game. If everyone is humans or goblins then sure he can charm them all day long. Toss in a Azer, Satyr, Minotaur or Ogre and the spell is useless. 4.Charm Person only last a bit..and then it's over....and the target has an odd memory of his 'new best freind' and what happend...... BT BT
Talonz 10-30-05, 08:16 PM	Magness, How does enchantment and alignment interact? At what point does casting charm spells on people became non-lawful or non-good? I have my view, I'm looking to see how it matches with others.
Talonz 10-30-05, 08:22 PM	------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2.Now the wizard is threatening to derail a negotiation with a thieve's gang leader by 'give me 5 minutes with him, we'll find out what we need' threats. Nothing wrong with that....you could even say that's why charm-type spells were made in the first place. I think it's a good idea to charm a gang member, or anyone else that you might think will lie to you. I guess its the implied 'threat' in his wording. He didn't say "let me use my superior charm on him guys, I'll get the info" he said "give me 5 minutes alone with this guy". It comes across quite differently and harshly, and without mention of the charm, implies force and torture. It also implies taking the info, not charming it out. Charm is not an Evil spell, and can easly fit into Netural behavior. Charm is in fact more a spell of Law(ful) then chaotic, and a charm is only evil if you have them do evil acts. Not by itself no. But if one views other beings as 'assets' and willingly attempts to charm pcs and npcs alike to get what he wants, isn't that starting to sound somewhat tyrannical?
General_Ridley 10-30-05, 08:41 PM	Magness, How does enchantment and alignment interact? At what point does casting charm spells on people became non-lawful or non-good? I have my view, I'm looking to see how it matches with others. depends on what you do with it. if you use it to cause chaos and destruction, clearly its CE. If you use it to apprehend fugitives and turn them in to the proper authorities, its more LG. its what the caster uses the spell to do rather than what the spell can be capable of.
Talonz 10-30-05, 11:39 PM	He cast it once on the other incoming pc because he seemed to be a 'rude warrior' and a possible asset to the party. He wanted to cast it on the same pc again when it seemed that the player would not be able to stay in the game, so that he could have the pc tag along as an npc as added firepower. He is threatening to cast it on a thief guild leader to get the info he wants out of him, despite the leader and the party rogue/priest having brokered a deal for this info.