Ah.. where do I start?!?!? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ah.. where do I start?!?!? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
mattman354
12-23-05, 10:00 AM I need everyone's advice. In short, my gaming group is dying out. Two of them hate one of them, and they don't get along. They want him gone, which would only leave two, but that player is the best roleplayer and has the most enthusiasm about DnD out of all of them. My Players don't want to do anything on the side that has to do with dungeons and dragons, and one doesn't even roleplay. For example, last night I told my brother (yes, my gaming group is made up of 12 year olds :weep: ) to read up about what region he lives in in the game, after all, a son of a noble should have some knowledge about his backround, regional history, etc. Is it something I am doing? They started out enthusiastically enough... So this is where I need your advice. What should I do to get them to do things that involve the game outside of the game? How do I make them care?
Edrick_Malichi
12-23-05, 10:11 AM You have to make it exciting to read the books.
Some people will take care of themselves. Some are busy-bodies, rules lawyers, or just plain excited about their new class (I have a guy in my group that never played a spellcaster before, so he was all excited about reading about spellcasting and the spells he could use).
Others, however, need more attention. They need an excuse to read the book. Unless they just love reading they won't touch it if they don't need to. To illistrate, I hate reading, and one aspect of my job involves research (reading). If I can acomplish a task "the long way" without having to read anything, I'll do it, even if it would end up saving me time and aggravation. Stubborness? Probably. But I think to myself "This way works, I didn't need to do anything else."

So you need to use more of the rules and knowledge that is in the books. Start off easy, though. If the party dies because they didn't know about a rule, that will just make everyone get sour about the game and cause more problems for you. But start off with areas of interest. Do they like combat? Make the battlefields more enjoyable. Have rocks to jump up on (jump DC 10), planks to walk (balance DC 10ish), uneven ground to run on (balance DC 10 if running/charging), give them mounts and let them do mounted combat (tons of ride checks)... After a while they'll want to see what all of these skills do that you are making them use. And make sure that the bad guys are doing the same thing and gaining an advantage. (Higher ground is a +1 to attacks, 2x damage on a mounted charge from lances, +2 dodge bonus to AC if standing near a small tree you can share a space with)

Once they get into reading about something in detail you can go from there.

About the "unwanted" player, that's up to you guys. That's all personal matters, and I'm not qualified enough to talk much about that, other than make everyone talk about it and come to a conclusion quickly.
Dichotomy
12-23-05, 10:36 AM Two of them hate one of them, and they don't get along.DnD is supposed to be a fun social activity. Would you play cards with people that you hate (assuming that you weren't doing it for money or something)? If the two of them really hate the third, it might be folly to attempt to make a group out of them. You may want to split them and play separate games with both. Or split them and only play with one of the groups. You could also split them and attempt to and people to whichever group you stayed with.
My Players don't want to do anything on the side that has to do with dungeons and dragonsI presume that you mean that they merely want to show up and play.
and one doesn't even roleplay.This seems to confirm my presumption.

The problem then appears to be a game style issue. Your players (except perhaps the one the other two hate) want a wargame. They want to show up, beat up some bad guys, maybe get some reward, and repeat. It took me a really long time to understand this, but that IS a valid way to play the game. It isn't a "wrong" way to play. The problem is that it isn't the way that you like to play. So what do you do?

Crude example time: Let's play Monopoly!
X is a Monopoly-oholic. He loves to play in any form.
Y enjoys Monopoly, but he thinks it takes too long. He likes to play that after four times around the board you stop playing and see who is richest.
Z is a Monopoly purist. By the rules and you play to the bitter end.
X and Y can play Monopoly together. X and Z can play Monopoly together. Y and Z cannot play Monopoly together. They wouldn't have a good time, and at least one of them would be very unhappy.

You have to determine what style of game you want to DM, and then you have to determine how willing you are to bend from that. You have to determine what style of game your players want to play, and then you have to determine how willing they are to bend. If, after comparing the two, they don't overlap, you probably need to find different people. If your styles fully conflict either 1) you will DM the game they want, and you will be unhappy, 2) you will DM the game you want, and they will be unhappy, or 3) you will DM a game no one wants, and no one will be happy.

Maybe you are lucky and there is some middle ground. Perhaps if you move a little bit toward the game they want and they move a little in your direction, you will still be happy. But in some cases that simply won't work. Given that it sounds like you don't have a great pool of players from which to draw, you may want to consider DMing two games.
Game 1: two players; mostly combat, but throw in roleplaying in SMALL amounts to try to entice them.
Game 2: the player the others hate; more focus on roleplaying; try to find like-minded players to add to the group or just go solo (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=553739).
spoogemonkey
12-23-05, 03:32 PM one word....... wedgies!

sheesh, do I have to think of everything?

They are TWELVE YR OLDS.... they have the attention span of a gnat! If they get unruly - kick them, hard! They won't respond to anything else. And you had better eliminate ALL OTHER DISTRACTIONS - nothing with bright colors, or that moves, or that makes noises.... or you will lose them again.

Just say, "Anybody that doesn't roleplay is a sissy!" or "Last one to Waterdeep is a moron!"

They will perk up - they love competition.

You, however, need to seriously considering begging some older guys to let you play with them. Cry if you have to.... or go tell mom...
ElysSilver
12-23-05, 08:11 PM I like and agree with SpoogeMonkey's advice. The preteen crowd can be a bit tough to handle, who am I kidding, the 20 and up crowd is challenging too. Anyway, if they aren't interested, then they aren't interested. You could do much of the background storytelling, researching yourself, which may get them interested, but it makes more work for you.

Doesnt seem like you are doing anything wrong....they are 12, how old are you if you dont mind me asking? An adult with such young 'uns may feel like a babysitting session, and adding older players may help.......

Good luck!!!
mattman354
12-24-05, 02:13 PM six
teen
ChaotikLawful
12-24-05, 03:17 PM Well, with them being only 12 years olds, they are likely to have a short attention span. In general, 12 year olds don't really care much for RP. This was covered in a recent Save My Game, but: You should keep things simple for now. I don't think they'll be very interested in a complex plot right now: give them cliches and lots of monsters to battle, then gradually begin to expand to the more refined parts of the game.
imperialjunkie
12-24-05, 04:42 PM Kids that young probably just want to kill things. Let them. Don't expect too much RP. If you have the pleasure of playing with them for years, then you can slowly teach them. I started D&D at 12. I just wanted to fight cool monsters and get lots of treasure. That's a legitimate motivation for the game- especially kids.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mattman354 12-23-05, 10:00 AM	I need everyone's advice. In short, my gaming group is dying out. Two of them hate one of them, and they don't get along. They want him gone, which would only leave two, but that player is the best roleplayer and has the most enthusiasm about DnD out of all of them. My Players don't want to do anything on the side that has to do with dungeons and dragons, and one doesn't even roleplay. For example, last night I told my brother (yes, my gaming group is made up of 12 year olds :weep: ) to read up about what region he lives in in the game, after all, a son of a noble should have some knowledge about his backround, regional history, etc. Is it something I am doing? They started out enthusiastically enough... So this is where I need your advice. What should I do to get them to do things that involve the game outside of the game? How do I make them care?
Edrick_Malichi 12-23-05, 10:11 AM	You have to make it exciting to read the books. Some people will take care of themselves. Some are busy-bodies, rules lawyers, or just plain excited about their new class (I have a guy in my group that never played a spellcaster before, so he was all excited about reading about spellcasting and the spells he could use). Others, however, need more attention. They need an excuse to read the book. Unless they just love reading they won't touch it if they don't need to. To illistrate, I hate reading, and one aspect of my job involves research (reading). If I can acomplish a task "the long way" without having to read anything, I'll do it, even if it would end up saving me time and aggravation. Stubborness? Probably. But I think to myself "This way works, I didn't need to do anything else." So you need to use more of the rules and knowledge that is in the books. Start off easy, though. If the party dies because they didn't know about a rule, that will just make everyone get sour about the game and cause more problems for you. But start off with areas of interest. Do they like combat? Make the battlefields more enjoyable. Have rocks to jump up on (jump DC 10), planks to walk (balance DC 10ish), uneven ground to run on (balance DC 10 if running/charging), give them mounts and let them do mounted combat (tons of ride checks)... After a while they'll want to see what all of these skills do that you are making them use. And make sure that the bad guys are doing the same thing and gaining an advantage. (Higher ground is a +1 to attacks, 2x damage on a mounted charge from lances, +2 dodge bonus to AC if standing near a small tree you can share a space with) Once they get into reading about something in detail you can go from there. About the "unwanted" player, that's up to you guys. That's all personal matters, and I'm not qualified enough to talk much about that, other than make everyone talk about it and come to a conclusion quickly.
Dichotomy 12-23-05, 10:36 AM	Two of them hate one of them, and they don't get along.DnD is supposed to be a fun social activity. Would you play cards with people that you hate (assuming that you weren't doing it for money or something)? If the two of them really hate the third, it might be folly to attempt to make a group out of them. You may want to split them and play separate games with both. Or split them and only play with one of the groups. You could also split them and attempt to and people to whichever group you stayed with. My Players don't want to do anything on the side that has to do with dungeons and dragonsI presume that you mean that they merely want to show up and play. and one doesn't even roleplay.This seems to confirm my presumption. The problem then appears to be a game style issue. Your players (except perhaps the one the other two hate) want a wargame. They want to show up, beat up some bad guys, maybe get some reward, and repeat. It took me a really long time to understand this, but that IS a valid way to play the game. It isn't a "wrong" way to play. The problem is that it isn't the way that you like to play. So what do you do? Crude example time: Let's play Monopoly! X is a Monopoly-oholic. He loves to play in any form. Y enjoys Monopoly, but he thinks it takes too long. He likes to play that after four times around the board you stop playing and see who is richest. Z is a Monopoly purist. By the rules and you play to the bitter end. X and Y can play Monopoly together. X and Z can play Monopoly together. Y and Z cannot play Monopoly together. They wouldn't have a good time, and at least one of them would be very unhappy. You have to determine what style of game you want to DM, and then you have to determine how willing you are to bend from that. You have to determine what style of game your players want to play, and then you have to determine how willing they are to bend. If, after comparing the two, they don't overlap, you probably need to find different people. If your styles fully conflict either 1) you will DM the game they want, and you will be unhappy, 2) you will DM the game you want, and they will be unhappy, or 3) you will DM a game no one wants, and no one will be happy. Maybe you are lucky and there is some middle ground. Perhaps if you move a little bit toward the game they want and they move a little in your direction, you will still be happy. But in some cases that simply won't work. Given that it sounds like you don't have a great pool of players from which to draw, you may want to consider DMing two games. Game 1: two players; mostly combat, but throw in roleplaying in SMALL amounts to try to entice them. Game 2: the player the others hate; more focus on roleplaying; try to find like-minded players to add to the group or just go solo (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=553739).
spoogemonkey 12-23-05, 03:32 PM	one word....... wedgies! sheesh, do I have to think of everything? They are TWELVE YR OLDS.... they have the attention span of a gnat! If they get unruly - kick them, hard! They won't respond to anything else. And you had better eliminate ALL OTHER DISTRACTIONS - nothing with bright colors, or that moves, or that makes noises.... or you will lose them again. Just say, "Anybody that doesn't roleplay is a sissy!" or "Last one to Waterdeep is a moron!" They will perk up - they love competition. You, however, need to seriously considering begging some older guys to let you play with them. Cry if you have to.... or go tell mom...
ElysSilver 12-23-05, 08:11 PM	I like and agree with SpoogeMonkey's advice. The preteen crowd can be a bit tough to handle, who am I kidding, the 20 and up crowd is challenging too. Anyway, if they aren't interested, then they aren't interested. You could do much of the background storytelling, researching yourself, which may get them interested, but it makes more work for you. Doesnt seem like you are doing anything wrong....they are 12, how old are you if you dont mind me asking? An adult with such young 'uns may feel like a babysitting session, and adding older players may help....... Good luck!!!
mattman354 12-24-05, 02:13 PM	six teen
ChaotikLawful 12-24-05, 03:17 PM	Well, with them being only 12 years olds, they are likely to have a short attention span. In general, 12 year olds don't really care much for RP. This was covered in a recent Save My Game, but: You should keep things simple for now. I don't think they'll be very interested in a complex plot right now: give them cliches and lots of monsters to battle, then gradually begin to expand to the more refined parts of the game.
imperialjunkie 12-24-05, 04:42 PM	Kids that young probably just want to kill things. Let them. Don't expect too much RP. If you have the pleasure of playing with them for years, then you can slowly teach them. I started D&D at 12. I just wanted to fight cool monsters and get lots of treasure. That's a legitimate motivation for the game- especially kids.