Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Captain Obvious 11-06-03, 08:26 PM	Say Joe and his 7 allies have surrounded a medium sized foe. If Joe attacks to grapple - can all of his allies roll to aid his attack? (netting Joe a +14 if they all roll to hit AC 10) I'm reading yes - but I'm not sure if that means that Joe gets the +14 on his touch attack, or on his grapple check or both. What do you folks think?
Grizelda 11-06-03, 08:54 PM	Originally posted by Captain Obvious Say Joe and his 7 allies have surrounded a medium sized foe. If Joe attacks to grapple - can all of his allies roll to aid his attack? (netting Joe a +14 if they all roll to hit AC 10) I'm reading yes - but I'm not sure if that means that Joe gets the +14 on his touch attack, or on his grapple check or both. What do you folks think? probably both, I think the term your looking for is DOGPILE! :D
phillipjp 11-06-03, 09:56 PM	The touch attack to start a grapple and the grapple check are two different actions. And according to the SRD, it's a standard action to aid another... If you’re in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action. ...I'd say they have to pick one of the two rolls to aid: either distract the opponent so you can grab him, OR dogpile.;)
Captain Obvious 11-06-03, 11:02 PM	Hmm... a bonus on the touch attack isn't all that great. Although "Aid Another" says the next attack roll. As I'm re-reading it - the roll after the touch attack is a grapple check, so maybe it can only get aid from people who specifically aid a grapple check. Dog pile got me thinking though: Suppose four people grapple a medium size target - the last step of a grapple is move in - so each grappler is required to either enter the grappled target's square or let go. Are we supposed to think that 5 medium sized creatures can occupy the same square if they are grappling? Do we allow all but one to maintain the grapple from an adjacent square? Or do we say that all but one of the grapplers must let go at the end of the round?
Xavim 11-07-03, 04:31 AM	I honestly don't know why they didn't just give the grapplers a bonus to their rolls for each additional grappler like the overbearing rules in 2e. Would have made this dogpile scenario very simple.
the_heart 11-07-03, 07:05 AM	Originally posted by Captain Obvious Dog pile got me thinking though: Suppose four people grapple a medium size target - the last step of a grapple is move in - so each grappler is required to either enter the grappled target's square or let go. Are we supposed to think that 5 medium sized creatures can occupy the same square if they are grappling? Do we allow all but one to maintain the grapple from an adjacent square? Or do we say that all but one of the grapplers must let go at the end of the round? of course five people can occupy the same square if they are grappling!!! normal combat implies a level of facing off, maintaining distance and moving around. that no longer applies in a dogpile. :) aid another only applies to one check as a rule. maybe you could modify the aid another roll to equal the touch AC of the victim, if they hit they they join the grapple and count as aiding with the grapple check. a logical blend of the two rules.