Alchemy and brew potions in the wilderness or endless cavern. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alchemy and brew potions in the wilderness or endless cavern. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gemmalah
06-06-07, 12:46 AM Ok heres the problem I have been trying to figure out how to use alchemy and brew potion away from a town where you can say you brought all of the correct ingredients and spent the required amount of gold.

Usually i would just go to a town and say in my shopping i'm spending x amount of gold on ingredients for these potions and alchemist fire and acid them make checks as required, however in the wilderness with no town in sight (or worlds largest dungeon for example) how could you ensure you have collected the right amount of stuff so I don't have potions that cost too little or are too easy to make and get exploited?

The character who may use this has a basic alchemy kit which was allowed by our dm so can attempt alchemy and brew potion in the wild.

I was thinking that for alchemy type items a suvival check of appropraite DC depending on the thing you wish to make (poisons would be easier to source in the wild) and increasing the DC a small amount for the actual alchemy check because you do not have the best ingredients.

Or in some cases like brew potion, items worth the amount needed must be put in the pot with the potion being brewed and are destroyed by the process. This would not affect the potion but maybe if you use gold pieces for example give it an unpleasant metalic taste which is why people don't usually do it.

Or For brew potion you must use parts of a creature of CR equal to or above the spells level and you can only use one monster for one potion even if there are bits left over. (insert flavour text about using the creatures life energy here) Perhaps the CR may need to be higher i think this may have to be tested in practice. And again the potion tastes gross but works.

However this adds to the treasure value of monsters and if it is used regularly I would have to decide if I should deduct a little from the actual treasure to compensate and keep treasure balance for level. It won't make much of a difference a few times but if every monster killed gets harvested for potions this could be a problem.

Oh and random question could craft alchemy also be used to cook but for roleplay purposes only. for example if we catch rats because we have no rations could i use craft alchemy to mix herbs to use with the rat so our snooty elf with the delicate taste buds will eat it. it does not add to the food avalable or make inedible things edible, its just that i'm our DM likes the randomness of dice rolls and will probably joy if i roll a natural 1 so he can tell the party that it still tastes gross or a natural 20 in which the party beg me for the recipie. I'd like to cook in character being the mothering type (a halfling cleric who looks after her friends and smites the kneecaps of those who are not friends) but not sure if i should use alchemy for the roll as i would take it anyway or put a token point in Craft cooking as you never know what skills come in handy.
Kaldric
06-06-07, 12:53 AM Making rats taste good is what Prestidigitation is for. It'll make the rat taste like filet mignon... or anything else, really.

If he wants to roll, he should be rolling for you catching the diseases that the rats might have. Or getting poisoned if you fail a survival check when preparing the food.

As for brewing potions in the wild, I'd say no, same with crafting other magic items. If you want to brew potions, go to town and set up a potion laboratory.
Kouk
06-06-07, 01:58 AM It's tough because there isn't an ingredient list given for potions and most alchemical items. It just says"All ingredients and materials used to brew a potion must be fresh and unused. The character must pay the full cost for brewing each potion. (Economies of scale do not apply.)"And presumably it holds true for many alchemical things.

These are suggestions for use with about any kind of crafting in the wilderness:

Here's one option: a potion is a stored spell, and if you have a spell component pouch you always have what is needed to cast a spell - so that may be enough to make the potion of that spell. If you need a special material component, you have to buy them or find them in advance. This sort of deals with "finding" reagents like pearls from clams or something (only expensive component I can think of ATM). The gold is magically eaten in the process.

Another option is: potions are just made from gold coins, or coins of equivalent value, via a special magical burner which may or may not have to be purchased separately. This way you can just make whatever potion you feel like, whenever you want, and you always have the "materials" and the gp cost is the same. Alternatively you could rationalize it as "I bought all the proper ingredients, I just forgot to write them on my character sheet".

A third option is: No, you can't make potions that you didn't specifically buy materials for in advance. When you are in town, you can spend the money to buy components for specific spells (CL x Spell Level x 50 / 2) but you don't pay the XP cost or spend the time required until you get around to actually crafting it. This way you can load up on materials, probably kept in a bag of holding of some sort, and then make a potion here or there when you have the free time.

Fourth: slight variation of third, just say you "bought materials" equal to X amount of gold, which just counts as your "Potion Materials". When you actually brew a potion, subtract the cost of brewing a potion from that remaining in your "Potion Materials". This way you have to buy materials in advance, but not really get into the specifics of it.

Fifth: No crafting out of town. Materials would go bad too quickly, and you didn't bring along the specific ingredients you needed anyway.

As for the cooking, the best option would be to take ranks in Profession(Cook) and make it taste good in the first place, but I can see Craft(Alchemy) being used to make some sort of "artificial flavoring".
Gemmalah
06-07-07, 10:54 PM Sounds good so far I like the idea of having X amount of golds worth of potion stuff then subracting that amount of gold from the sack for each potion. THis would be good for long treks between towns

its just that my DM wants to send us into the worlds largest dungeon and i believe theres no shops in there (or at least ones that sell potion stuff, didn't check it up for fear of metagaming) So i'm trying to find a way to do it (if possible) that will allow me to brew potions without needing to go to town.

its rather more complicated than i first thought.

thanks for the help so far, I think the coin burner may be a nice one (I may suggest the party divide the loot so any left over gets turned into potions) I'm a cleric so I was thinking that for potions I could offer the coins to my god as an offering to help bless the potion with the spell (just some roleplay explination) Then the coins dissapear? (possibly relocated to the local church he he)

As for the cooking/alchemy subsitution the artificial flavouring sounds like a fun idea, its for roleplay anyway and i've never used craft (cooking) for anything very useful in a dungeon.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gemmalah 06-06-07, 12:46 AM	Ok heres the problem I have been trying to figure out how to use alchemy and brew potion away from a town where you can say you brought all of the correct ingredients and spent the required amount of gold. Usually i would just go to a town and say in my shopping i'm spending x amount of gold on ingredients for these potions and alchemist fire and acid them make checks as required, however in the wilderness with no town in sight (or worlds largest dungeon for example) how could you ensure you have collected the right amount of stuff so I don't have potions that cost too little or are too easy to make and get exploited? The character who may use this has a basic alchemy kit which was allowed by our dm so can attempt alchemy and brew potion in the wild. I was thinking that for alchemy type items a suvival check of appropraite DC depending on the thing you wish to make (poisons would be easier to source in the wild) and increasing the DC a small amount for the actual alchemy check because you do not have the best ingredients. Or in some cases like brew potion, items worth the amount needed must be put in the pot with the potion being brewed and are destroyed by the process. This would not affect the potion but maybe if you use gold pieces for example give it an unpleasant metalic taste which is why people don't usually do it. Or For brew potion you must use parts of a creature of CR equal to or above the spells level and you can only use one monster for one potion even if there are bits left over. (insert flavour text about using the creatures life energy here) Perhaps the CR may need to be higher i think this may have to be tested in practice. And again the potion tastes gross but works. However this adds to the treasure value of monsters and if it is used regularly I would have to decide if I should deduct a little from the actual treasure to compensate and keep treasure balance for level. It won't make much of a difference a few times but if every monster killed gets harvested for potions this could be a problem. Oh and random question could craft alchemy also be used to cook but for roleplay purposes only. for example if we catch rats because we have no rations could i use craft alchemy to mix herbs to use with the rat so our snooty elf with the delicate taste buds will eat it. it does not add to the food avalable or make inedible things edible, its just that i'm our DM likes the randomness of dice rolls and will probably joy if i roll a natural 1 so he can tell the party that it still tastes gross or a natural 20 in which the party beg me for the recipie. I'd like to cook in character being the mothering type (a halfling cleric who looks after her friends and smites the kneecaps of those who are not friends) but not sure if i should use alchemy for the roll as i would take it anyway or put a token point in Craft cooking as you never know what skills come in handy.
Kaldric 06-06-07, 12:53 AM	Making rats taste good is what Prestidigitation is for. It'll make the rat taste like filet mignon... or anything else, really. If he wants to roll, he should be rolling for you catching the diseases that the rats might have. Or getting poisoned if you fail a survival check when preparing the food. As for brewing potions in the wild, I'd say no, same with crafting other magic items. If you want to brew potions, go to town and set up a potion laboratory.
Kouk 06-06-07, 01:58 AM	It's tough because there isn't an ingredient list given for potions and most alchemical items. It just says"All ingredients and materials used to brew a potion must be fresh and unused. The character must pay the full cost for brewing each potion. (Economies of scale do not apply.)"And presumably it holds true for many alchemical things. These are suggestions for use with about any kind of crafting in the wilderness: Here's one option: a potion is a stored spell, and if you have a spell component pouch you always have what is needed to cast a spell - so that may be enough to make the potion of that spell. If you need a special material component, you have to buy them or find them in advance. This sort of deals with "finding" reagents like pearls from clams or something (only expensive component I can think of ATM). The gold is magically eaten in the process. Another option is: potions are just made from gold coins, or coins of equivalent value, via a special magical burner which may or may not have to be purchased separately. This way you can just make whatever potion you feel like, whenever you want, and you always have the "materials" and the gp cost is the same. Alternatively you could rationalize it as "I bought all the proper ingredients, I just forgot to write them on my character sheet". A third option is: No, you can't make potions that you didn't specifically buy materials for in advance. When you are in town, you can spend the money to buy components for specific spells (CL x Spell Level x 50 / 2) but you don't pay the XP cost or spend the time required until you get around to actually crafting it. This way you can load up on materials, probably kept in a bag of holding of some sort, and then make a potion here or there when you have the free time. Fourth: slight variation of third, just say you "bought materials" equal to X amount of gold, which just counts as your "Potion Materials". When you actually brew a potion, subtract the cost of brewing a potion from that remaining in your "Potion Materials". This way you have to buy materials in advance, but not really get into the specifics of it. Fifth: No crafting out of town. Materials would go bad too quickly, and you didn't bring along the specific ingredients you needed anyway. As for the cooking, the best option would be to take ranks in Profession(Cook) and make it taste good in the first place, but I can see Craft(Alchemy) being used to make some sort of "artificial flavoring".
Gemmalah 06-07-07, 10:54 PM	Sounds good so far I like the idea of having X amount of golds worth of potion stuff then subracting that amount of gold from the sack for each potion. THis would be good for long treks between towns its just that my DM wants to send us into the worlds largest dungeon and i believe theres no shops in there (or at least ones that sell potion stuff, didn't check it up for fear of metagaming) So i'm trying to find a way to do it (if possible) that will allow me to brew potions without needing to go to town. its rather more complicated than i first thought. thanks for the help so far, I think the coin burner may be a nice one (I may suggest the party divide the loot so any left over gets turned into potions) I'm a cleric so I was thinking that for potions I could offer the coins to my god as an offering to help bless the potion with the spell (just some roleplay explination) Then the coins dissapear? (possibly relocated to the local church he he) As for the cooking/alchemy subsitution the artificial flavouring sounds like a fun idea, its for roleplay anyway and i've never used craft (cooking) for anything very useful in a dungeon.