Alingment Conflict... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alingment Conflict... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Outpatient8
07-06-05, 03:31 PM Ok here is my problem.

I'm running a game in The Worlds Largest Dungeon. I got a LG Palladin, LG Cleric, CG Rogue, and a LG Ranger, all 2-3 lvl. They are stuck in this dungeon as far as they know.

Well, they took a Kobold Wizard but none of them can communicate with it. So, the LG Ranger wants to slit it's throat. My arguement is that a LG ANYTHING is nto going to slit a bound and defenseless prisoner, regardless of race.

What do you folks think?
Xante Flatnose
07-06-05, 03:41 PM No, a lawful good never ever slits a throat with out a purpose.
It is a more likely Chaotic Neutral situation.
celtredleg
07-06-05, 03:42 PM Have that person reread about alignments all over again. They obviosly where not paying attention the first time.

Why did they capture a prisoner in the first place if they knew they could not deal with one???

What do you want them to do with him??? Remeber, what you do will effect what they do the next time this comes up. If they release him, and then he attacks them later, the next prisoner is toast no matter what the alignment.
Cymraegmorgan
07-06-05, 03:43 PM I find it odd that no one in your party speaks Common, as that is a Kobold's first Bonus Language, Undercommon being the other.
steventirey1985
07-06-05, 03:45 PM Ok here is my problem.

I'm running a game in The Worlds Largest Dungeon. I got a LG Palladin, LG Cleric, CG Rogue, and a LG Ranger, all 2-3 lvl. They are stuck in this dungeon as far as they know.

Well, they took a Kobold Wizard but none of them can communicate with it. So, the LG Ranger wants to slit it's throat. My arguement is that a LG ANYTHING is nto going to slit a bound and defenseless prisoner, regardless of race.

What do you folks think?

They may. Look at it this way:

They have captured a dangerous foe. They can't take it back to town to imprison, as they are stuck in the dungeon. They may not want to take it with them, as it could distract them from noticing something else, potentially fatal. It would be wrong to just leave it there, bound and gagged, and helpless against anything that could come along. They also don't want to free it, as it could come back and attack them, or someone else. The only alternative would be, in my opinion, to kill the kobold in the most humane and painless way, so that it dosn't suffer.

So yes, in my opinion, a LG anything could (and in some cases should) kill a helpless (and evil) foe. Of course, if the kobold isn't evil, they probably shouldn't kill it anyway.
Sargon
07-06-05, 03:52 PM My DM would argue that Kobolds are little more than Vermin anyway... I guess if the Ranger had that opinion of it then.... why not eh?
Outpatient8
07-06-05, 04:10 PM Cymraegmorgan, Since you do nto seem to want to help please find another thread to post in. You know nothing of the game world I run or the situations in it.

celtredleg, I can not control what the players do. If they want to take a prisoner they can. But I cna hold them to the rules. But If they decided to keep a prisoner, I'd have the kobold try to escape at every turn.

steventirey1985, you have some good points. THanks.

Sargon, if the Ranger had kobolds as a favored enemy, then MAYBE I could see him killin te kobold. But he does not. And kobolds are much more than vermin, they are an intelligent race, with a culture. My ranger tried that arguement.

I'll let yall know how it ends...
Cymraegmorgan
07-06-05, 04:46 PM Cymraegmorgan, Since you do nto seem to want to help please find another thread to post in. You know nothing of the game world I run or the situations in it.

I would think that the language barrier is the problem, and if your House Rules are changing the RAW for Kobolds, you should have made that clear in your original post.
astute1
07-06-05, 04:52 PM I would think that the language barrier is the problem, and if your House Rules are changing the RAW for Kobolds, you should have made that clear in your original post.
Agreed. Also, your Cleric could cast Comp. Lang and speak with it. Chances are, though, that a kobold wizard, who likely has decent intelligence, speaks common.

Also, wizards are easily delt with - if you don't want a wizard to be able to hurt you, take his spell components and spellbook, bind his hands, and blindfold him. Now he's down to verbal spells that don't require LOS. Heck, you can gag him, too - then he's pretty much helpless. Kobolds don't weigh that much, so you can toss 'im in a sack, and if he starts squiming too much, just beat the sack with baseball bats.
Quoriil
07-06-05, 04:59 PM Did the player tell you why his character wanted to slit its throat?
Are Kobolds in your campaign an evil ravaging force that is seen as inherently evil?
Did the ranger ask the Paladin if he detected the taint of evil in it?
Is the Kobold evil?
Gedrin
07-06-05, 05:09 PM Okay...it's another "what do you do with a prisoner" question. I'm assuming he's done something at this point that deserves him being a prisoner.

First, would this prisoner deserve a death sentance if tried by a just court?
If yes, go on.
If no. It's wrong to kill him.

Second, does the party access to a just authority, without endangering their lives or the lives of others?
If yes, turn over the prisoner.
If no, go on.

Third, is it reasonable to believe the prisoner can contained without threat to the life of the party (or the lives of other innocents)?
If yes, do so. Turn him to stone and chuck him in the bag 'o holding.
If no, go on.

Finally, if the prisoner would be executed in civil society, the party has no access to other just authorities, and they have no way to contain the prisoner for later judgement...Only then do we find ourselves in a "frontier justice" situation.

When no other authority is present, those there must become the authority. It is a heavy responsibility to act as judge, jury, and executioner. However, if our alternative is to let evil go unpunished, we are left with little option. It is preferable, for many reasons, not to have the offended party take this role, but again, we have few options left.

Of course, "I can't talk to him" isn't a good reason to kill someone. Few societies execute people for failing to speak their language, thus we fail test one for executing a prisoner. Might be more helpful to know why the PC's grabbed the guy and tied him up... Hopefully they had a decent reason for that.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Outpatient8 07-06-05, 03:31 PM	Ok here is my problem. I'm running a game in The Worlds Largest Dungeon. I got a LG Palladin, LG Cleric, CG Rogue, and a LG Ranger, all 2-3 lvl. They are stuck in this dungeon as far as they know. Well, they took a Kobold Wizard but none of them can communicate with it. So, the LG Ranger wants to slit it's throat. My arguement is that a LG ANYTHING is nto going to slit a bound and defenseless prisoner, regardless of race. What do you folks think?
Xante Flatnose 07-06-05, 03:41 PM	No, a lawful good never ever slits a throat with out a purpose. It is a more likely Chaotic Neutral situation.
celtredleg 07-06-05, 03:42 PM	Have that person reread about alignments all over again. They obviosly where not paying attention the first time. Why did they capture a prisoner in the first place if they knew they could not deal with one??? What do you want them to do with him??? Remeber, what you do will effect what they do the next time this comes up. If they release him, and then he attacks them later, the next prisoner is toast no matter what the alignment.
Cymraegmorgan 07-06-05, 03:43 PM	I find it odd that no one in your party speaks Common, as that is a Kobold's first Bonus Language, Undercommon being the other.
steventirey1985 07-06-05, 03:45 PM	Ok here is my problem. I'm running a game in The Worlds Largest Dungeon. I got a LG Palladin, LG Cleric, CG Rogue, and a LG Ranger, all 2-3 lvl. They are stuck in this dungeon as far as they know. Well, they took a Kobold Wizard but none of them can communicate with it. So, the LG Ranger wants to slit it's throat. My arguement is that a LG ANYTHING is nto going to slit a bound and defenseless prisoner, regardless of race. What do you folks think? They may. Look at it this way: They have captured a dangerous foe. They can't take it back to town to imprison, as they are stuck in the dungeon. They may not want to take it with them, as it could distract them from noticing something else, potentially fatal. It would be wrong to just leave it there, bound and gagged, and helpless against anything that could come along. They also don't want to free it, as it could come back and attack them, or someone else. The only alternative would be, in my opinion, to kill the kobold in the most humane and painless way, so that it dosn't suffer. So yes, in my opinion, a LG anything could (and in some cases should) kill a helpless (and evil) foe. Of course, if the kobold isn't evil, they probably shouldn't kill it anyway.
Sargon 07-06-05, 03:52 PM	My DM would argue that Kobolds are little more than Vermin anyway... I guess if the Ranger had that opinion of it then.... why not eh?
Outpatient8 07-06-05, 04:10 PM	Cymraegmorgan, Since you do nto seem to want to help please find another thread to post in. You know nothing of the game world I run or the situations in it. celtredleg, I can not control what the players do. If they want to take a prisoner they can. But I cna hold them to the rules. But If they decided to keep a prisoner, I'd have the kobold try to escape at every turn. steventirey1985, you have some good points. THanks. Sargon, if the Ranger had kobolds as a favored enemy, then MAYBE I could see him killin te kobold. But he does not. And kobolds are much more than vermin, they are an intelligent race, with a culture. My ranger tried that arguement. I'll let yall know how it ends...
Cymraegmorgan 07-06-05, 04:46 PM	Cymraegmorgan, Since you do nto seem to want to help please find another thread to post in. You know nothing of the game world I run or the situations in it. I would think that the language barrier is the problem, and if your House Rules are changing the RAW for Kobolds, you should have made that clear in your original post.
astute1 07-06-05, 04:52 PM	I would think that the language barrier is the problem, and if your House Rules are changing the RAW for Kobolds, you should have made that clear in your original post. Agreed. Also, your Cleric could cast Comp. Lang and speak with it. Chances are, though, that a kobold wizard, who likely has decent intelligence, speaks common. Also, wizards are easily delt with - if you don't want a wizard to be able to hurt you, take his spell components and spellbook, bind his hands, and blindfold him. Now he's down to verbal spells that don't require LOS. Heck, you can gag him, too - then he's pretty much helpless. Kobolds don't weigh that much, so you can toss 'im in a sack, and if he starts squiming too much, just beat the sack with baseball bats.
Quoriil 07-06-05, 04:59 PM	Did the player tell you why his character wanted to slit its throat? Are Kobolds in your campaign an evil ravaging force that is seen as inherently evil? Did the ranger ask the Paladin if he detected the taint of evil in it? Is the Kobold evil?
Gedrin 07-06-05, 05:09 PM	Okay...it's another "what do you do with a prisoner" question. I'm assuming he's done something at this point that deserves him being a prisoner. First, would this prisoner deserve a death sentance if tried by a just court? If yes, go on. If no. It's wrong to kill him. Second, does the party access to a just authority, without endangering their lives or the lives of others? If yes, turn over the prisoner. If no, go on. Third, is it reasonable to believe the prisoner can contained without threat to the life of the party (or the lives of other innocents)? If yes, do so. Turn him to stone and chuck him in the bag 'o holding. If no, go on. Finally, if the prisoner would be executed in civil society, the party has no access to other just authorities, and they have no way to contain the prisoner for later judgement...Only then do we find ourselves in a "frontier justice" situation. When no other authority is present, those there must become the authority. It is a heavy responsibility to act as judge, jury, and executioner. However, if our alternative is to let evil go unpunished, we are left with little option. It is preferable, for many reasons, not to have the offended party take this role, but again, we have few options left. Of course, "I can't talk to him" isn't a good reason to kill someone. Few societies execute people for failing to speak their language, thus we fail test one for executing a prisoner. Might be more helpful to know why the PC's grabbed the guy and tied him up... Hopefully they had a decent reason for that.