All rules apply! [Archive] - Wizards Community

All rules apply! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ankheg
11-20-03, 08:53 PM My PCs have always been really easily confused or stuck, so i took alot of the rules out. Finally, one day I was finaly fed up with it and said "ALL RULES APPLY!!! NO MORE GAMES WHERE YOU MAGICALLY FINS SOME RANDOME QUEST OR AUTOMATICALLY KNOW WHAT MONSTER EACH MONSTER IS!!! ALL RULES APPLY, ALL RULES APPLY!!!" So since then, they've gotten really anoying, espeacially one that's a Yaun-Ti Abomination and has an instant death scythe that was originally forged by a god. So guys, just tell me what you think I should do and I'll forge them together to create the greatest idea to stop them ever!

P.S. Thank you in advance.
Zeed
11-20-03, 09:04 PM O.O Corrupted Half Shadow Dragon/ Fang Dragon but instead of telling them they see a big dragon, make him look like a goblin O.O they'll never see that comming
Ankheg
11-20-03, 09:14 PM Haha, that's good, but i would rather it be like, "You see a bug like creature lumbering towards you with huge pincers sticking out of it's mouth and large bulging eyes, tainted with hunger."
OmiKapSi
11-21-03, 03:29 AM ????????????????

I'm going to assume that this is (serious?) and not a rant? and.....

NO.

This is not a good thread to read while on acid. Or the things that your brain naturally produces to mess you up.

Who this yuan-ti, is it a player or creature? And how did it get a scythe forged by the death god? And why are there orange rabbits crawling out of my bellybutton? And what's this about automatically knowing monters? And magic quests?

I may edit this post when I get back.
quaiven
11-21-03, 06:47 AM Dude...you get the rabbits too?
Lord Deadite
11-21-03, 08:19 AM About the point of automatic knowledge of what creatures are:
This is called metagaming, give them a simple description of the creature instead of telling them they encounter a chaosbeast, for example.
I allow knowledge checks for them to determine what a creature is.

About the scythe forged by a god:
Remove it, instant death is going to spoil the fun.
Do not tell the player you are going to take his weapon, but allow some interesting situation to remove it.
Such as a homebrew rust dragon dracolich, being undead it's immune to necromantic effects and it's rust breath weapon will take care of any metal objects.

It's not a good idea to remove rules, especially without replacing them.
It is however a good idea to tell your players to read the Player handbook.

My suggestion:
Crack out that whip and show them who's in charge.
It seems to me like your players are controlling the game, but you can fix that, i'm sure.
jasper
11-21-03, 08:24 AM okay your campaign has gotten away from you and the players have powers to make loki and thor look like wwf wanna bees.
retire the characters and have them start over.
Naeron
11-21-03, 09:49 AM Originally posted by Lord Deadite
About the point of automatic knowledge of what creatures are:
This is called metagaming, give them a simple description of the creature instead of telling them they encounter a chaosbeast, for example.
I allow knowledge checks for them to determine what a creature is.
<snip>

A PC recognising an Umber Hulk or Yuan-Ti Abberation when it comes towards them is no more unreasonable that my ability to recognise a red deer or a badger, and my life doesn't depend on this sort of knowledge. Recognising standard monsters from the core books is not metagaming, just as letting the players learn the base stats from the MM for an Umberhulk is ok, just don't tell them the stats of the actual creature, which can vary a lot from whats in the MM. This is the PCs world, they will know what creatures share their world, how relatively tough they are, and what they can do. Whats in the MM allows us a players to translate what the PCs would know ingame into concepts that we understand.
Lord Deadite
11-21-03, 12:01 PM Originally posted by Naeron
A PC recognising an Umber Hulk or Yuan-Ti Abberation when it comes towards them is no more unreasonable that my ability to recognise a red deer or a badger, and my life doesn't depend on this sort of knowledge. Recognising standard monsters from the core books is not metagaming, just as letting the players learn the base stats from the MM for an Umberhulk is ok, just don't tell them the stats of the actual creature, which can vary a lot from whats in the MM. This is the PCs world, they will know what creatures share their world, how relatively tough they are, and what they can do. Whats in the MM allows us a players to translate what the PCs would know ingame into concepts that we understand.

I disagree.

My players have started out as 1st level, and what is known to them is no more that what is known to most commoners.
Goblins and orcs are scary and trolls are immortal unless you kill them with fire. That's about it.
Beholder? that's that floating thing with the many eyes right?
Umberhulk? never heard of it.
Kuo-toa? oh you mean gogglers....arent those extinct?

Sure they have heard rumours, but be reasonable.
Unless the creature is common in the area or the local folklore, I wonder why the characters would know anything.
kennedybm00
11-21-03, 12:29 PM If you ever want to truly mess your players up go with the endless waves of altered Kobolds. Kobold snappers with smokebpoder strapped to their backs, Powerful Kobold sorcerors with invisibility and scads of firepower, Kobold assassins.

It will leave your players in pieces and wondering. Why?
jasper
11-21-03, 01:58 PM IMC we came up with the follow knowledge roll dc. What type
religion local etc varies
DC 10 burn trolls, different color dragon different breath weapons
DC 15 some humanoids cast spells some giants are good
dc 20 the general spells of humanoids, what is a mind flayer etc
dc 25 some of mind flayers spells
dc 30 you may read the monster manual for this critter

We use the how rare the critters were in first edition. So everyone recognizes orcs, goblins, kobolds.
Rare and very rare critters the locals may call them some thing else. I generally use the title gremlins. Now the gremlins in Slapout Alabama may be landshark. In Atlanta Ga the gremlin maybe a purple worm.
Ankheg
11-23-03, 05:45 PM Oh, sadly, I started with the mistake of letting ECLs not counting, let the Yuan-Ti Abomination take a sorta reverse paladin class I call "Dark-Paladin," let him be half dragon, and had him find the death gods scythe (Others were munchkin too except for one of my PCs that has gone through 4 characters already.) My second mistake was met-gaming. Third was giving 300 exp. for a dire rat, and finally letting them loot a really rich guy's mansion in which one spent it on two gold dragon eggs and the other spent it on sword forged even better.

I'm thinking about having the scythe taint the yaun-ti and forces him to go on a rampage killing the party and having him as an epic boss way later on for the new party made.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ankheg 11-20-03, 08:53 PM	My PCs have always been really easily confused or stuck, so i took alot of the rules out. Finally, one day I was finaly fed up with it and said "ALL RULES APPLY!!! NO MORE GAMES WHERE YOU MAGICALLY FINS SOME RANDOME QUEST OR AUTOMATICALLY KNOW WHAT MONSTER EACH MONSTER IS!!! ALL RULES APPLY, ALL RULES APPLY!!!" So since then, they've gotten really anoying, espeacially one that's a Yaun-Ti Abomination and has an instant death scythe that was originally forged by a god. So guys, just tell me what you think I should do and I'll forge them together to create the greatest idea to stop them ever! P.S. Thank you in advance.
Zeed 11-20-03, 09:04 PM	O.O Corrupted Half Shadow Dragon/ Fang Dragon but instead of telling them they see a big dragon, make him look like a goblin O.O they'll never see that comming
Ankheg 11-20-03, 09:14 PM	Haha, that's good, but i would rather it be like, "You see a bug like creature lumbering towards you with huge pincers sticking out of it's mouth and large bulging eyes, tainted with hunger."
OmiKapSi 11-21-03, 03:29 AM	???????????????? I'm going to assume that this is (serious?) and not a rant? and..... NO. This is not a good thread to read while on acid. Or the things that your brain naturally produces to mess you up. Who this yuan-ti, is it a player or creature? And how did it get a scythe forged by the death god? And why are there orange rabbits crawling out of my bellybutton? And what's this about automatically knowing monters? And magic quests? I may edit this post when I get back.
quaiven 11-21-03, 06:47 AM	Dude...you get the rabbits too?
Lord Deadite 11-21-03, 08:19 AM	About the point of automatic knowledge of what creatures are: This is called metagaming, give them a simple description of the creature instead of telling them they encounter a chaosbeast, for example. I allow knowledge checks for them to determine what a creature is. About the scythe forged by a god: Remove it, instant death is going to spoil the fun. Do not tell the player you are going to take his weapon, but allow some interesting situation to remove it. Such as a homebrew rust dragon dracolich, being undead it's immune to necromantic effects and it's rust breath weapon will take care of any metal objects. It's not a good idea to remove rules, especially without replacing them. It is however a good idea to tell your players to read the Player handbook. My suggestion: Crack out that whip and show them who's in charge. It seems to me like your players are controlling the game, but you can fix that, i'm sure.
jasper 11-21-03, 08:24 AM	okay your campaign has gotten away from you and the players have powers to make loki and thor look like wwf wanna bees. retire the characters and have them start over.
Naeron 11-21-03, 09:49 AM	Originally posted by Lord Deadite About the point of automatic knowledge of what creatures are: This is called metagaming, give them a simple description of the creature instead of telling them they encounter a chaosbeast, for example. I allow knowledge checks for them to determine what a creature is. <snip> A PC recognising an Umber Hulk or Yuan-Ti Abberation when it comes towards them is no more unreasonable that my ability to recognise a red deer or a badger, and my life doesn't depend on this sort of knowledge. Recognising standard monsters from the core books is not metagaming, just as letting the players learn the base stats from the MM for an Umberhulk is ok, just don't tell them the stats of the actual creature, which can vary a lot from whats in the MM. This is the PCs world, they will know what creatures share their world, how relatively tough they are, and what they can do. Whats in the MM allows us a players to translate what the PCs would know ingame into concepts that we understand.
Lord Deadite 11-21-03, 12:01 PM	Originally posted by Naeron A PC recognising an Umber Hulk or Yuan-Ti Abberation when it comes towards them is no more unreasonable that my ability to recognise a red deer or a badger, and my life doesn't depend on this sort of knowledge. Recognising standard monsters from the core books is not metagaming, just as letting the players learn the base stats from the MM for an Umberhulk is ok, just don't tell them the stats of the actual creature, which can vary a lot from whats in the MM. This is the PCs world, they will know what creatures share their world, how relatively tough they are, and what they can do. Whats in the MM allows us a players to translate what the PCs would know ingame into concepts that we understand. I disagree. My players have started out as 1st level, and what is known to them is no more that what is known to most commoners. Goblins and orcs are scary and trolls are immortal unless you kill them with fire. That's about it. Beholder? that's that floating thing with the many eyes right? Umberhulk? never heard of it. Kuo-toa? oh you mean gogglers....arent those extinct? Sure they have heard rumours, but be reasonable. Unless the creature is common in the area or the local folklore, I wonder why the characters would know anything.
kennedybm00 11-21-03, 12:29 PM	If you ever want to truly mess your players up go with the endless waves of altered Kobolds. Kobold snappers with smokebpoder strapped to their backs, Powerful Kobold sorcerors with invisibility and scads of firepower, Kobold assassins. It will leave your players in pieces and wondering. Why?
jasper 11-21-03, 01:58 PM	IMC we came up with the follow knowledge roll dc. What type religion local etc varies DC 10 burn trolls, different color dragon different breath weapons DC 15 some humanoids cast spells some giants are good dc 20 the general spells of humanoids, what is a mind flayer etc dc 25 some of mind flayers spells dc 30 you may read the monster manual for this critter We use the how rare the critters were in first edition. So everyone recognizes orcs, goblins, kobolds. Rare and very rare critters the locals may call them some thing else. I generally use the title gremlins. Now the gremlins in Slapout Alabama may be landshark. In Atlanta Ga the gremlin maybe a purple worm.
Ankheg 11-23-03, 05:45 PM	Oh, sadly, I started with the mistake of letting ECLs not counting, let the Yuan-Ti Abomination take a sorta reverse paladin class I call "Dark-Paladin," let him be half dragon, and had him find the death gods scythe (Others were munchkin too except for one of my PCs that has gone through 4 characters already.) My second mistake was met-gaming. Third was giving 300 exp. for a dire rat, and finally letting them loot a really rich guy's mansion in which one spent it on two gold dragon eggs and the other spent it on sword forged even better. I'm thinking about having the scythe taint the yaun-ti and forces him to go on a rampage killing the party and having him as an epic boss way later on for the new party made.