Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Seventh Seraph 04-05-04, 09:28 PM	In the next part of my adventure, I'm having all of the adults (in the world) die on the same day. Anyone 15 years of age and younger will be spared. My question is, when the PCs (who are all 15) return to their village and learn about the deaths, what will happen? I figure all of the other children will look to the PCs to be the new "adults", since they're the oldest, and so the PCs will be in charge of a small village. What kinds of problems would arise? And how should I present them? Thanks for your help. -SS
Felgraf2 04-05-04, 09:31 PM	Well, I imagine that the PC's might, eventually, want to know what *caused* all the adults in the world to die, lest A) They suffer the same fate. B) So they can avenge the deaths of their parents. C) Stop whatever caused this from doing anything else. I imagine their first task would probably be burial duty.
king_of_evil007 04-05-04, 09:34 PM	Well, obviously a funeral, burial, consolation of children, and taking care of newborns is going to take a long time. Are there any other 15 year olds who aren't adventurous, who can do most of this? This will leave the party time to go and find out what happened, to prevent it and avenge their parents and all that.
Seventh Seraph 04-05-04, 09:54 PM	Yeah, I figured burial would be the first thing, and then probably feeding everyone. Any thoughts on how to present that challenge? As for finding the cause, I don't want them to be able to run off immediately--I want the younger kids to feel that they need the PCs, no matter how irrational that may be. I'm hoping that this part of the adventure will take an entire session (4 to 5 hours for my group). A few other questions: how will religion be affected? Or money? Will barbarian societies be less crippled?
pestilenceawaits 04-05-04, 10:11 PM	This may label me as a geek (not that playing dnd doesn't already) but there is a Old Star Trek episode (original series) where the crew encounters a group of kids on a planet where all the adults have died and they have gone kind of feral. another exaample of this is Lord of The Flies. the PC's may have to spend time (depending on their alignments) trying to keep the kids from killing each other and basically destroying themselves. The childrens history will be lost really quickly as well unless the parents were good record keepers. Another question I had is what about the longer lived races. did this tragedy affect only humans? are there elves or dwarves around to help?
Seventh Seraph 04-05-04, 10:19 PM	Actually, this may sound like blasphemy, but there aren't any other races besides human. Well, no elves, dwarves, etc., but there are human races (all made up, of course), so they all have pretty much the same life span.
pokemaniacbill 04-05-04, 10:38 PM	Paranoia. 'If I become an adult... will... will I die too?'
pestilenceawaits 04-05-04, 11:15 PM	With no adults the infants will die pretty quickly as well without nursing mothers. With the less than sanitary conditions that exist in fantasy settings. I would imagine sickness would be a problem with a catastrophe of this magnitude.Vermin would quickly get out of hand. farm animals need to be taken care of. I thought of another example of widespread death that might be a good resource Stephen Kings "The Stand" it wasn't just kids but the same types of problems apply. children all over the world running wild would eventually be gathered together under the power of older more charismatic children some of whom would be benevolent and others who would be malicious.
Fixxxer 04-06-04, 01:41 AM	Originally posted by pokemaniacbill Paranoia. 'If I become an adult... will... will I die too?' VERY good idea. Fear should run rampant among "good" children, while "bad" children may look on this as an escape from the rules imposed by their parents. Once the PCs actually leave to go into the world, they may find in town after town that the "bad" children have established a very barbaric leadership over the cowed "good" children. To solve the problem of the PCs not being able to leave right away, the younger children will be very adament that the older PCs stay with them. If the PCs try to leave, they find that all of the children in the town try to follow them quietly, which obviously meets with no success at all and forces the PCs to return to town and stay with the children (lest they starve for lack of hunting because noisy children scare all the game away). This is very "Jeremiah." :) :)
pokemaniacbill 04-06-04, 03:49 AM	Murder by proxy, if preventable, is still murder. Good aligned characters (Those who would give a crap at all, or even most neutral characters) would probably not like the guilt... bad, bad things. And thank you Fixxer, that was one of my first thoughts. But out of curiousity, Seventh Seraph, do you really not trust your players to protect the children that you would want to come here? Or is it they'd find a legitimate, moral way out of it?
Revelation 04-06-04, 04:42 AM	The world will suffer a MASSIVE loss of skills, knowledge and technology. Few (if any) blacksmiths, literati, scribes, shipwrights, DOCTORS,etc will survive. If you don't want to starve after a few months most people will have to work in the fields and farms. Those best off would be those in milder climes not as harsh where the children can survive more mistakes and failures as they struiggle to regain the lost knowledge. Wild/barbarian lands would tend to be unforgiving and kill more of the children. I think you'd lose at least 50%+ of children in the next six months, if nothing else breast feeding babies and small infants without anyone to care for them, cities would fall apart when the food supply ran out. As role players we all like to think of bright ideas we might come up with when civilizations fall apart, sadly we'd probably be butchered by the mob:rolleyes:
pokemaniacbill 04-06-04, 04:54 AM	Average age to start as a mother: Probably 14. Seriously. No protection, no particular reason not to continue to breed in a world where somebody with Meteor Swarm could have just as crappy of a day as you did, and the doweries would be nice for the girl's mother. Life begins alot sooner then you think... probably the age 15 characters would be apprentices, probably at a negative XP. (If you ever heard of Hackmaster, you'll get this). Not to mention the family business bit: My father's father's great grandpappy learned to smith from his great great great great grandpappy, and now I'm learning. Apprenticeship for a trade would most likely start, oh... the age of eleven. That does not, however, account for physical, emotional, or mental maturity.
MinusInnocence 04-06-04, 06:19 AM	As for progression of classes... An intuitive youngster who spent a lot of time walking around with the town's sheriff when he was drilling the local militia may be able to think back and draw on memories of the techniques he taught. This could be the group's Fighter, but once he actually gains his first character level, I'm doubting there's much reminiscing could do to help him. He's on his own to develop his skills. Rogues are fairly easy to figure out, though dwelling on the vulnerability of the human anatomy may be sobering and macabre for the typical adolescent. Their myriad of skills are pretty much guess and check when it comes to being able to "wing it"... Decipher Script, for example, is as much based on wild luck as it is years of experience with books you can't read. Clerics and Druids... all cynicism about what sort of horrific deities would allow this to happen aside, unless someone was serving as the equivalent of an altar boy at the time of the catastrophe, you can bet the Rank n' File Undead-smiting, Spontaneous Healing Cleric is a thing of the past. On the other hand, someone who is guided by intuition and faith in oneself or some other abstract ideal may be better off. Druids would probably seem like a "natural" (no pun intended) choice, as learning more about the outside world would be imperative to the survival of the younger boys and girls. Likewise, having faith in Nature instead of the cruel and unforgiving monsters who stood by and watched (or maybe even orchestrated the cataclysm themselves) wouldn't be a bad idea. It may take years, but anyone who was lucky enough to be taught Draconic by a magical tutor is well on their way to becoming a Wizard. More often than not, spells will probably backfire or simply fizzle without effect, but surviving to the tender young age of 20 (or however long typical apprenticeships last) will net the 1st level in the Class. Obviously, Sorcerers will be vastly more numerous than Wizards in a situation like this, in and outside of the party. What sorts of dilemmas do you have planned for this game? So far, we have: 1) Set up the basecamp that used to be the village of the PCs so it won't be obliterated the next time something big happens. 2) The common theme seems to be survival. Anyone who won't know what to do when the lakes and streams freeze will die, it's as simple as that. Likewise, much less work will be done in the fields, if any at all (it's one thing for a child to be taught what to do, and how to do it, when their father tells them to; it's another thing entirely to be able to adapt to new scenarios and utilize agricultural skills to man an operation on their own), because the workers are so much smaller and in such fewer numbers. 3) Finding out what happened and making sure it either doesn't happen again, or perhaps reversing the tragedy, will probably be a longterm goal of the "heroes". In a game like this, I wouldn't be surprised if it took them all the way to 20th level; perhaps until the point where they are powerful enough to summon an audience with the aforementioned gods themselves; before the PCs could get to the bottom of this. But what of other sentient creatures? You mentioned there are no playable PCs races aside from humans, but what about Goblins? Dragons? Are the Outer Planes still intact, or is that issue largely irrelevant as the game will only focus on "getting by"? You have to leave plenty of options in the event that people get bored with this one-track theme. If there is sentient life elsewhere in the world, you can bet it will notice the sudden and bizarre vanishing of human dominance. Unfortunately, particularly in a fantasy setting, power vacuums don't last long. The intelligent rivals of the PCs will be clamoring for blood and glory, and the ancient ruins that used to be bustling metropolises will become the chosen battlegrounds. Suddenly, the fragile existence the PCs have eked out will be called into question yet again, this time not by a mystical apocalypse. This time, they will simply have to go into hiding to avoid capture, death or worse at the hands of scavengers. It will probably also be appalling to the PCs who are of primarily Good alignment (maybe... hopefully) the first time they meet other humans who intend to kill them and take what they have, rather than help them get more of it. The concept of looting and base selfishness is probably anathema to anyone struggling to maintain a crude society.
Fixxxer 04-06-04, 08:07 AM	As far as skilled craftsman goes, the world will definately suffer, but it's not like most of these trades will have to be completely rediscovered. By the age of 15, a blacksmith's son would have been working as an apprentice in the shop for several years (and he was probably sweeping up the shop, picking up nails, etc for years before that). A farmer's children would have been sowing and reaping crops since the time they could walk. See my point? One thing I am curious about, however. Your world is populated only by humans, but magic obviously still existed before everyone died. How are you handling people who were over 15, but were immortal due to magic, being turned to stone, undeath, etc? I mean, do they still exist, or did this biblical cleansing take them as well? Also, if the cause for the "big death" was a plague or something like that, did small pockets of adults survive? I mean, could there be a mage's academy somewhere that was able to raise a magical barrier against whatever caused this thing before it happened to them as well?
Qlay 04-06-04, 08:34 AM	O yeah there should be adults somewhere.. crawling out of a ruin, finnaly the PC"s think! Finnaly! And ofcourse there is this 15 year old reincarnation of EVIIILLLL. And and the O-My-Goddeses infuse their powers in the children! And we have big eyed small mouthed super heroes! The adults are gone and the EVIILL is back. But to unlock the temple, the players need the 8 stones of thisorthat. Who are hidden in a dungeon, with a boss on the end. Then they discover there powers because they ARE chosen. Etc... trow in some giant robos too, or giant robo/dragon things. But, if your world is realistic, yes many things will get lost. All these kids in puberty. Bad kids good kids. Who maintains order? And food? How will they get their food? Can they defend themselves from the monsters? And babies? Wont some kids steal a lot of stuff that belonged to the parents. Ofcourse yes there is first fear, paranoia and grief. I think a lot of kids need to die, well they should die given the sutation. It will be a harsh world.
Escef 04-06-04, 08:53 AM	Originally posted by Qlay I think a lot of kids need to die,... You and me both. :devil: Seriously, food won't be much of a problem. A 15 year old who was raised on the farm will know all the basics of farming. Won't be able to deal with problems quite as well as his parents (like, say, infestations of pest insects that show up for the first time in 30 years). Apprentices at smithys, butchers, etc. means that while finesse will be lacking in many trades, they will get by. Infants will only have a marginally lower survival rate, as they can drink cow's or goat's milk, and many children have taken care of younger siblings enough to know what they're doing. The two big problems I see are maintaining public safety (keeping the bad kids and monsters in line) and what will happen to the city kids (a major metropolis imports all its food from outlying areas).
jedi8187 04-06-04, 09:25 AM	This reminds me of a show called The Tribe, where all the adults died of a virus. The city breaks into groups called tribes, some want to just survive, others want to take over, and still others want to make themselves as comfortable as can be. First there should be anarchy and chaos. Then have leaders(maybe the PCs, maybe not) show up (different and diverse(and at least a few should appear)). Next the groups should try to form goverment(one of the big things will probably be returning to normal lives), these also need to be diverse, try democracy, communism, socialism, fascism, and whateverelse you can think of. Now that things are reestablished its time the seperate gropups tried to get along and set up trades and such. This of course works better in a medium or bigger city. Just rember some kids will want to return things to they way they were, some will rebel against the "adult" ideas.
Sereno 04-06-04, 09:37 AM	Realistically, this would be the end of your human civilization. Cities would have to be abandoned ... no way would groups of children be able to deal with stacks and stacks of rotting adult corpses (now there's a nightmare thought if ever there was one!). Most children who were under the age of six or seven that didn't have a teenage sibling to care for them will also die; either by hunger or by accident (like trying to make food and burning down their homes, or trying to ride a horse like they saw mommy and daddy and falling off). I know that when you're 15, you think you know everything you need to know about living completely on your own, but trying to do so in a world with NO support services of ANY kind would be horrendous. Hopefully, this world has a very small percentage of monsters. Any monstrous race would be quick to snap up all of the human kingdoms and probably enslave the remaining, surviving children. EDIT: To cut down on the horror of the scenario, it would be possible that all of the adults disappeared; perhaps somehow dragged into a parallel reality, instead of dying. If nothing else it removes some of the mind-breaking horror of the need to deal with millions of corpses of parents, aunts, uncles, etc. There'd still be the struggle for children to survive in a world without adults but it would be a little less horrific.
newbDM 04-06-04, 09:40 AM	Thats a really neat idea for a adventure... I'd make sure that the players are all approaching their 16th birthday within the next X number of months so that there is lots of tension to play off of. Like maybe in their town there was no child over 15 (the oldest non adult was 15) but as they get going to different places they never find anyone over 15.... and their birthday is coming up soon...
Veton 04-06-04, 10:37 AM	Originally posted by pestilenceawaits I thought of another example of widespread death that might be a good resource Stephen Kings "The Stand" it wasn't just kids but the same types of problems apply. children all over the world running wild would eventually be gathered together under the power of older more charismatic children some of whom would be benevolent and others who would be malicious. My favorite Stephen King book :cloud9: Anyway, this sounds like an interesting senario. However, it won't be pretty for the PCs at first. With no adults around, anyone is free to do whatever they feel like, and they can get whatever they want from the shops that are now empty. So obviously the kids who are old enough to understand what's happening (Including the PCs) should stock up on some weaponry to defend themselves with (Which could be a problem - If there was a mage's guild around the city the PCs are coming to, there's all sorts of magical loot, free for the taking). Then someone's going to need to become a king, in order to get order in the kingdom. Some bad kids might decide to try and invade once the PCs have gotten everything running again, so they'll need to train other kids to fight. I don't know if anyone in the party is a cleric, so everyone will need to grow some food. And healing will be needed for the PCs if they journey outward (which they probably shouldn't, at least for a while.) Of course, if one of the kids is a cleric (quite possible, as the gods are going to be needing all the worshippers they can get after this event), things will be a little easier. Then there's the matter of finding out why this happened...
Escef 04-06-04, 12:58 PM	Originally posted by Sereno Realistically, this would be the end of your human civilization. Well, that really depends on your point of view and interpretation. One might say that rather than the end of civilization, it is a new begining. As for 15 year olds not knowing enough to survive, sorry, the typical D&D world is too agrarian (farm based) for most kids to not have basic living skills by the age of 15. Yes, the mortality rate will jump, but by no means will it approach what is seen in wild animals unless the responsible minded children chose to abandon the others, which is unlikely. There will be few food problems the first year as reserves from the previous year and/or planting from the current year (when there was still an adult population) will provide a surplus. Granted, though, that one still needs a large enough labor force to harvest the large surplus in the fall. Unless this happened in the winter, in which case the infighting will be less severe during the first year because of survival concerns. I do see each village and tribe staying mostly cohesive, but the city kids will either attempt to join these smaller communities (and settle into being merchants most likely), or turn to raiding. Heck, urban raised hoodlums will be some of the most vicious bandits out there. Angry, undisciplined, but knowing the value of stealth. Imagine what the inner city would be like without any law enforcement at all. Gangs would run rampant. Apprentice wizards would be like trophys. Closely gaurded. Valued. It wouldn't take long before someone bullyed a bunch of apprentices into servitude. Someone might even be smart enough to not let him learn straight out offensive spells. They'd limit his access to buffs and utility spells. After they gain some experience, forcing them to make magic items. Potions, minor wonderous items. Sorcerers and divine casters would be more trouble to control than they're worth, but that won't stop someone from learning the hard way. City kis that go bandit would probably be expert/warriors or the better ones rogue/barbarians. Most kids from smaller towns and such would end up following their late parents into NPC classes. I foresee a slight increase in the percentage of paladins, many grieving children turning to the gods for comfort and a way to help protect their friends. In fact, there will likely be a huge divide between the pious children who turn to the gods and the ones who angrily turn away for letting their parents die.and so much hardship follow.
Tanuki, the Bewildered 04-06-04, 04:15 PM	Originally posted by MinusInnocence Clerics and Druids... all cynicism about what sort of horrific deities would allow this to happen aside, unless someone was serving as the equivalent of an altar boy at the time of the catastrophe, you can bet the Rank n' File Undead-smiting, Spontaneous Healing Cleric is a thing of the past. On the other hand, someone who is guided by intuition and faith in oneself or some other abstract ideal may be better off. Two points: First, at 15 many of those those with a Calling will already have 1 (maybe 2 if they're fairly precocious) Cleric (or Paladin) levels. Most towns and will likely have at least one actual Cleric and a few being trained up, smaller villages are a toss-up (but will likely be wiped off the map pretty quickly anyway), and most larger cities will have several. Second, history suggests that a situation like this would lead to a flourishing of religion as the survivors turn to the churches for guidance and protection. The Clerics who are still around will take the opportunity to fill their ranks out some. Although the dogma of certain churches might bend some due to pragmatism and the fact that the orthodoxy hasn't been so firmly hammered into their heads, and some of the less important churches will die out, the major churches will survive.
ShadowRanger 04-06-04, 06:51 PM	so many things can happen, first is if there are any powerful monsters/mosntorous races humans will be hard pressed to survive with the best of their warriors, mages, and healers gone. Expect a shift away from cities to farming/raiding, society will have to be rebuilt, but the pc's will be a major factor in the world, just have fun balancing out higher level encounters (traps work fine on the theory they are still set in the ruins), though encounters should probably be more non-combat focusing on growing communities. Tell us how it turns out this is pretty intresting.
grapedog 04-06-04, 07:05 PM	as stated above, i think the majority of time with these characters for a while should be social situations. I think you should help them to leave a stable situation behind in their original town so they can move about a bit on their own...but then introduce them to some communities where things might not have fared so well so they can see the opposite end of the spectrum...play up the mass hysteria/depression angle. The masses of now parentless children. 15 is still very early for children to be out and about. Sure, there children are raised on a farm and now how to do work around town/farmland, but how many times did their father take them out camping or show them how to survive in the wild? Probably not many at all since if you've ever worked on a farm there is almost always work to be done. When they first start to travel, really play on their fears...perhaps take each one aside for some kind of weird, 10 minute dream/nightmare sequence you RP with him away from the others...give each child something to think about. I think at the age of 15, the characters are still pretty wide open as to what profession they want to follow, i think that the kids should be introduced to situations where they can decide what they want to really do with their characters... Almost like a pre-history to first level characters...how they became what they are and how they became a party. By having all the characters just surivivors and the oldest remaining in the town, that gives them the reason to exist together...it might even be interesting to create some details about how they knew each other before...or allow certain characters to come from other towns...perhaps make 2 or 3 towns in the area, and assign each town a rating. Stable, Anarchy, Cut-throat...so on and so forth. Then have each player roll a die to find out where they are from. Perhaps the stable town was the largest in the area and the other players from other towns went off to see what happened in other towns...or to get help...and they must check back with the other kids in their origianl towns... there really is a LOT of RP here to be had, i mean tons...i would minimize the combat, or keep it real low key. Normally combat helps jumpstart a boring run through a dungeon...but in this world just dealing with the kids could be very cool, tense and exciting.
Seventh Seraph 04-07-04, 02:52 AM	Wow, so many great replies! This little thought experiment turned out to be more fun than I had anticipated. Many of you asked me questions directly, so I'll do my best to keep this short and sweet. Originally posted by pokemaniabill But out of curiousity, Seventh Seraph, do you really not trust your players to protect the children that you would want to come here? Or is it they'd find a legitimate, moral way out of it? Honestly, I'm not sure what they'd do. You see, all but one Player chose to create an evil character (unbeknownst to the other Players), so I really can't predict what they'd do yet. And for most of them, it's their first evil Character (which adds to the unpredictability). Originally posted by MinusInnocence Are the Outer Planes still intact, or is that issue largely irrelevant as the game will only focus on "getting by"? I've never liked the complicated mess of D&D cosmology, so there are basically only two known "planes": a physical one and a spiritual one. I know it's really simple, but it adds to the "real" flavor. Originally posted by Fixxxer One thing I am curious about, however. Your world is populated only by humans, but magic obviously still existed before everyone died. How are you handling people who were over 15, but were immortal due to magic, being turned to stone, undeath, etc? I mean, do they still exist, or did this biblical cleansing take them as well? Also, if the cause for the "big death" was a plague or something like that, did small pockets of adults survive? I mean, could there be a mage's academy somewhere that was able to raise a magical barrier against whatever caused this thing before it happened to them as well? Fixxxer, I'm honored by your contribution! Magic in my world is pretty much still developing--think 5th or 6th level spells, max. My PCs are currently 2nd level, so when they reach high levels, they'll actually be discovering "new" high level spells. I won't be penalizing their spells known/spells per day in any way. Immortality and undeath are just legends and fairy tales (for now! Ha ha!), so no one above 15 is exempt. Well, except one, but he's special...:) ============================ Now, here's some of the background to help you understand why all of this is happening. The whole mass death was foretold centuries ago (through a collection of works of art), and there are many in the magic community frantically searching for all of the art pieces; all are needed to understand the actual nature of the catastrophe and the exact date it occurs. The PCs stumbled upon one of these works of art, but they decided not to turn it in. All they know is that it's valuable and people are looking for it, but they don't know that time is quickly running out. No one else knows that they have it either. I naturally assumed they would turn the work of art in to receive a reward, but my Players are a suspicious group. It hasn't occurred to them that the art piece would have more to it than a price tag, and they think the mages are going to use it for their own evil purpose. Since I don't want to railroad, the curse will occur on the given day (I really should give that day a name--any suggestions?), unless the PCs suddenly change their minds and turn in the art piece (which is highly unlikely at this point). Sorry for the long post, but I hope it helps you understand my world a little better. Thanks again for all of your contributions. If there are any other questions/suggestions, let me know! -SS
grapedog 04-07-04, 02:59 AM	at this point, i think you should keep the death day...that should slam home the point of not being too greedy. Overall I like the idea alot, good luck with it...but at this point, i definately think you should follow through with death day...
Escef 04-07-04, 12:25 PM	The day could go by diferent names based on cultural and religious interpretation. The Purge. The Cleansing. The Eve of Chaos. The Day of Wailing Children. There are a lot of good choices. Instead of using just one, have the day's name vary from place to place. Besides, if the day's occurence was well known it would throw the populace into a tizzy, so any names it has before hand are probably only known to sages. For a long time it might just be known as The Day Mommy and Daddy Left.
Endarire 04-07-04, 08:06 PM	Silly name: The Day The Music Died Serious: The End Day, The Blackest Day, Blood Day, Bloodtide -EE
grapedog 04-07-04, 09:05 PM	Day of Reckoning Day of the Long Death or just Long Death
Fixxxer 04-07-04, 09:28 PM	Originally posted by Endarire Silly name: The Day The Music Died As a player, I couldn't promise not to break into a chorus of "My my, Mrs. American Pie" whenever I heard that. :D
Mr.Waesel 04-08-04, 06:23 AM	So, what caused the deaths?