Alliance v. Horde [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alliance v. Horde [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ManiacMat
10-26-05, 08:43 PM Well, I started a game with two different party's. My game is actually based in the World of Warcraft, and I required one party to be Alliance (Team 1) and the other to be Horde (Team 2). No team knew that I had another team playing for a long time until I decided that it was time for them to get together and kill themselves.

That's exactly what happened. When they all got here, they were wondering why eight people were there instead of the usual four. I didn't exactly explain, but they understood pretty quickly. At the end of their last meeting, I ended both teams about 1 mile outside a cave that they were sent to as a quest.

Once they got to the outside of the cave, they fought. That's it. Now, I was expecting this fight to last about as long as a normal PC v. enemy fight would take. I was wrong. This fight took the entire six hour period that we were playing. It was fun, but took so long.

Well, the Horde team won, and were allowed to continue into the cave. Now, I had them go through the cave for their next game. And for the Alliance, I had somebody ressurect them outside the cave and the Alliance hid, waiting in ambush.

The next time, I was planning for another six hour battle. I was wrong again. This battle took about fifteen minutes. Alliance won this round so fast, that I decided to give them an extra level, which took most of them up to level 12, and one of them up to level 11. The Horde team was mad, and complained to me, saying, we deserve a rematch, let's fight one more time, the same fight and everything. So, I let them have a rematch.

I don't know how, but somehow, the Horde won this next fight in 1 hour. I was so confused, that I sent them all home and thought up on this, I'm still wondering how the Horde won that fight, no matter how killer they are. I do root for the Horde by the way, but I just don't understand how it happened.
General_Ridley
10-26-05, 10:50 PM I could help assess as to why the battles took their various times if you can:

a) provide info about the major advantages to each side
b) strategies for each side during each battle

It usually breaks down to strategy and really cool abilities.
Jancarius
10-27-05, 01:28 AM Info on the classes and levels involved each time would help as well.
ManiacMat
10-27-05, 12:02 PM Well, I'll just tell the races and classes. Alliance had halfling Rogue, elf Wizard, dwarf Fighter, dwarf Cleric. Horde had half-orc rogue(hehe), a really beefy skeleton wizard, a minotaur (which i made a little weaker for gameplay purposes), and a half-orc barbarian.

You'll have to know what a skeleton wizard and a minotaur is to know what kind of party the Horde had, but you could probably get an idea of what type of spells the wizards had, and what kind of weapons they had at lvl 11.
Bruunwald
10-27-05, 12:28 PM Well, I'll just tell the races and classes. Alliance had halfling Rogue, elf Wizard, dwarf Fighter, dwarf Cleric. Horde had half-orc rogue(hehe), a really beefy skeleton wizard, a minotaur (which i made a little weaker for gameplay purposes), and a half-orc barbarian.

You'll have to know what a skeleton wizard and a minotaur is to know what kind of party the Horde had, but you could probably get an idea of what type of spells the wizards had, and what kind of weapons they had at lvl 11.

You have creatures with resistance, damage reduction and oversized weapons in your horde. That can be a mighty edge to overcome. You've also got three characters with a bonus to Strength there, one with a major one. None of the alliance have natural attacks or race-related attacks, while two of the horde do, one of them a pretty significant charge and gore attack.

The truth is, I don't know that much about WOW, I'm just going by D&D rules. But it doesn't help, either, that the DM was "rooting" for one group over the other.
ManiacMat
10-27-05, 12:45 PM yes, i'm using the D&D rules also. All of the minotaur and thingsl like that. Again, I pretty much made the minotaur into a Player character type. I made it as even as possible. Obviously, I did something wrong. The skeleton is a wizard which, all I really did with that is make it human type, and gave it a few special abilities for being undead. So, the skeleton does get the extra skill point every level. For being undead, he doesn't have a lot of class skills. And, he gets hurt if he's healed. I admit myself, the beefy minotaur is a little huge, but the Alliance team had a chance to kill them.
DaveReaves
10-27-05, 01:49 PM Ya know, I know you didn't really ask for this, but there is a D20 World Warcraft Suppliment by Sword and Sorcery.

As to the problem at hand, I would say don't alow the rematch (or pretend it didn't happen). They met in the field and battled. The winner went on to complete the quest, the looser regrouped and set up an ambush. The ambush was successful. Now its probably time to move the game on from this point. Let the groups go back to doing their things and know that they each have a personal vendeta aginst the other. Perhaps in the future they will battle again.
Jancarius
10-27-05, 03:42 PM yes, i'm using the D&D rules also. All of the minotaur and thingsl like that. Again, I pretty much made the minotaur into a Player character type. I made it as even as possible. Obviously, I did something wrong. The skeleton is a wizard which, all I really did with that is make it human type, and gave it a few special abilities for being undead. So, the skeleton does get the extra skill point every level. For being undead, he doesn't have a lot of class skills. And, he gets hurt if he's healed. I admit myself, the beefy minotaur is a little huge, but the Alliance team had a chance to kill them.
Bad DM! BAD! You essentially just gave the Skeleton wizard an advantage over a human wizard at not cost (since you did not mention stripping any human features). The skeleton has racial traits of it's own, it should NOT get any of the human ones. There is, in the given scenario, no reason NOT to be a skeleton wizard (except that if the Dwarven Cleric has the Sun domain, you're about to die). Please tell me you remembered to strip the Con score from the skeleton. Please? If you have Libris Mortis, you should probably have him remake as a awakened human commoner skeleton (He's got class levels and DR, I'm not sure if he gets the 1d12 HD for being undead in the first place in this scenario).

With the half-orcs, I believe if you wanted to, you could just bust out your Monstrous Manual, I believe there's racial traits and 'orcs as characters' there.

Minotaur is a LA creature I believe, so as long as you applied that...

At L11, the Alliance party should have slaughtered the Horde party in seconds, assuming the Alliance Wizard was not dropped before his initiative. The wizard should have ready access to a boots of flying or similar, thus denying the rogue his sneak attack (distance greater than 30 feet), and most likely denying the Barbarian his attacks (I've noticed lots of Barbarians and non-archer build fighters forget to carry ranged weapons). This leaves only the skeleton wizard as a threat. The wizard could also have a Composite Bow (+6). Why would a wizard have such a high strength bow? For when he casts Polymorph, turns into a troll, and opens fire with his new 23 strength. This may not work based on your campaign and some interpretations of how Polymorph works. Now, the whole party should focus on killing the skeleton Wizard. The Cleric, as I mentioned, should be able to handle this in the first round or two by L11, with Rigteous Might, Disrupting Weapon, Heal, Turning, or Undeath to Death (and that's Core and no domains only!). After that, they should target the rogue, who could deal nasty damage (fortunetly, the Large size granted by Righteous Might ought to help with those annoying sneak attacks via Attacks of Opportunity everytime he tries to close without remembering to tumble (which cuts his move range in half)) Once that's done, it's just a mop up operation. The flying Wizard can focus on counterspelling anything the skeleton does while he waits for him to be eliminated and then proceed to come down in troll form and dish out some righteous justice of his own.

As a general rule of thumb, the higher level you go, the better it is to have more casters.

BTW, Dave, :rofl: on the Paladin sig. That's how some of those threads really do sound like...
ManiacMat
10-27-05, 05:07 PM I was actually thinking about taking away some important class skills from the skeleton wizard, however, I thought he had a hard enough time being able to get beat down by healing. So, I just left it. I mean, all you need to do is throw a greater healing spell on him, and he'd be dead in no time.

O. BTW, I know that there's a WoW supplement, but I also know that it's a totally different game with different stats and all that, I have the main book, and the stats for the WoW game are much better than the D&D game.
fatal error
10-27-05, 05:26 PM I don't think you should've given them a rematch, including that ambush. You should have either had the alliance loose their characters (probably a bad idea), or maybe get taken somewhere else to be returned to life.

Either way, what is it you're asking about here anyway? How the horde won? Well if you want an answer you should be prepared to provide more information than a two word descriptions of their race/class, how about what tactics they used, what spells were cast, who died first. These things will obviously have a bearing on who won as much as what their class and race were.
Jancarius
10-27-05, 10:44 PM Being damaged by Cure is balanced by being healed by Inflict.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ManiacMat 10-26-05, 08:43 PM	Well, I started a game with two different party's. My game is actually based in the World of Warcraft, and I required one party to be Alliance (Team 1) and the other to be Horde (Team 2). No team knew that I had another team playing for a long time until I decided that it was time for them to get together and kill themselves. That's exactly what happened. When they all got here, they were wondering why eight people were there instead of the usual four. I didn't exactly explain, but they understood pretty quickly. At the end of their last meeting, I ended both teams about 1 mile outside a cave that they were sent to as a quest. Once they got to the outside of the cave, they fought. That's it. Now, I was expecting this fight to last about as long as a normal PC v. enemy fight would take. I was wrong. This fight took the entire six hour period that we were playing. It was fun, but took so long. Well, the Horde team won, and were allowed to continue into the cave. Now, I had them go through the cave for their next game. And for the Alliance, I had somebody ressurect them outside the cave and the Alliance hid, waiting in ambush. The next time, I was planning for another six hour battle. I was wrong again. This battle took about fifteen minutes. Alliance won this round so fast, that I decided to give them an extra level, which took most of them up to level 12, and one of them up to level 11. The Horde team was mad, and complained to me, saying, we deserve a rematch, let's fight one more time, the same fight and everything. So, I let them have a rematch. I don't know how, but somehow, the Horde won this next fight in 1 hour. I was so confused, that I sent them all home and thought up on this, I'm still wondering how the Horde won that fight, no matter how killer they are. I do root for the Horde by the way, but I just don't understand how it happened.
General_Ridley 10-26-05, 10:50 PM	I could help assess as to why the battles took their various times if you can: a) provide info about the major advantages to each side b) strategies for each side during each battle It usually breaks down to strategy and really cool abilities.
Jancarius 10-27-05, 01:28 AM	Info on the classes and levels involved each time would help as well.
ManiacMat 10-27-05, 12:02 PM	Well, I'll just tell the races and classes. Alliance had halfling Rogue, elf Wizard, dwarf Fighter, dwarf Cleric. Horde had half-orc rogue(hehe), a really beefy skeleton wizard, a minotaur (which i made a little weaker for gameplay purposes), and a half-orc barbarian. You'll have to know what a skeleton wizard and a minotaur is to know what kind of party the Horde had, but you could probably get an idea of what type of spells the wizards had, and what kind of weapons they had at lvl 11.
Bruunwald 10-27-05, 12:28 PM	Well, I'll just tell the races and classes. Alliance had halfling Rogue, elf Wizard, dwarf Fighter, dwarf Cleric. Horde had half-orc rogue(hehe), a really beefy skeleton wizard, a minotaur (which i made a little weaker for gameplay purposes), and a half-orc barbarian. You'll have to know what a skeleton wizard and a minotaur is to know what kind of party the Horde had, but you could probably get an idea of what type of spells the wizards had, and what kind of weapons they had at lvl 11. You have creatures with resistance, damage reduction and oversized weapons in your horde. That can be a mighty edge to overcome. You've also got three characters with a bonus to Strength there, one with a major one. None of the alliance have natural attacks or race-related attacks, while two of the horde do, one of them a pretty significant charge and gore attack. The truth is, I don't know that much about WOW, I'm just going by D&D rules. But it doesn't help, either, that the DM was "rooting" for one group over the other.
ManiacMat 10-27-05, 12:45 PM	yes, i'm using the D&D rules also. All of the minotaur and thingsl like that. Again, I pretty much made the minotaur into a Player character type. I made it as even as possible. Obviously, I did something wrong. The skeleton is a wizard which, all I really did with that is make it human type, and gave it a few special abilities for being undead. So, the skeleton does get the extra skill point every level. For being undead, he doesn't have a lot of class skills. And, he gets hurt if he's healed. I admit myself, the beefy minotaur is a little huge, but the Alliance team had a chance to kill them.
DaveReaves 10-27-05, 01:49 PM	Ya know, I know you didn't really ask for this, but there is a D20 World Warcraft Suppliment by Sword and Sorcery. As to the problem at hand, I would say don't alow the rematch (or pretend it didn't happen). They met in the field and battled. The winner went on to complete the quest, the looser regrouped and set up an ambush. The ambush was successful. Now its probably time to move the game on from this point. Let the groups go back to doing their things and know that they each have a personal vendeta aginst the other. Perhaps in the future they will battle again.
Jancarius 10-27-05, 03:42 PM	yes, i'm using the D&D rules also. All of the minotaur and thingsl like that. Again, I pretty much made the minotaur into a Player character type. I made it as even as possible. Obviously, I did something wrong. The skeleton is a wizard which, all I really did with that is make it human type, and gave it a few special abilities for being undead. So, the skeleton does get the extra skill point every level. For being undead, he doesn't have a lot of class skills. And, he gets hurt if he's healed. I admit myself, the beefy minotaur is a little huge, but the Alliance team had a chance to kill them. Bad DM! BAD! You essentially just gave the Skeleton wizard an advantage over a human wizard at not cost (since you did not mention stripping any human features). The skeleton has racial traits of it's own, it should NOT get any of the human ones. There is, in the given scenario, no reason NOT to be a skeleton wizard (except that if the Dwarven Cleric has the Sun domain, you're about to die). Please tell me you remembered to strip the Con score from the skeleton. Please? If you have Libris Mortis, you should probably have him remake as a awakened human commoner skeleton (He's got class levels and DR, I'm not sure if he gets the 1d12 HD for being undead in the first place in this scenario). With the half-orcs, I believe if you wanted to, you could just bust out your Monstrous Manual, I believe there's racial traits and 'orcs as characters' there. Minotaur is a LA creature I believe, so as long as you applied that... At L11, the Alliance party should have slaughtered the Horde party in seconds, assuming the Alliance Wizard was not dropped before his initiative. The wizard should have ready access to a boots of flying or similar, thus denying the rogue his sneak attack (distance greater than 30 feet), and most likely denying the Barbarian his attacks (I've noticed lots of Barbarians and non-archer build fighters forget to carry ranged weapons). This leaves only the skeleton wizard as a threat. The wizard could also have a Composite Bow (+6). Why would a wizard have such a high strength bow? For when he casts Polymorph, turns into a troll, and opens fire with his new 23 strength. This may not work based on your campaign and some interpretations of how Polymorph works. Now, the whole party should focus on killing the skeleton Wizard. The Cleric, as I mentioned, should be able to handle this in the first round or two by L11, with Rigteous Might, Disrupting Weapon, Heal, Turning, or Undeath to Death (and that's Core and no domains only!). After that, they should target the rogue, who could deal nasty damage (fortunetly, the Large size granted by Righteous Might ought to help with those annoying sneak attacks via Attacks of Opportunity everytime he tries to close without remembering to tumble (which cuts his move range in half)) Once that's done, it's just a mop up operation. The flying Wizard can focus on counterspelling anything the skeleton does while he waits for him to be eliminated and then proceed to come down in troll form and dish out some righteous justice of his own. As a general rule of thumb, the higher level you go, the better it is to have more casters. BTW, Dave, :rofl: on the Paladin sig. That's how some of those threads really do sound like...
ManiacMat 10-27-05, 05:07 PM	I was actually thinking about taking away some important class skills from the skeleton wizard, however, I thought he had a hard enough time being able to get beat down by healing. So, I just left it. I mean, all you need to do is throw a greater healing spell on him, and he'd be dead in no time. O. BTW, I know that there's a WoW supplement, but I also know that it's a totally different game with different stats and all that, I have the main book, and the stats for the WoW game are much better than the D&D game.
fatal error 10-27-05, 05:26 PM	I don't think you should've given them a rematch, including that ambush. You should have either had the alliance loose their characters (probably a bad idea), or maybe get taken somewhere else to be returned to life. Either way, what is it you're asking about here anyway? How the horde won? Well if you want an answer you should be prepared to provide more information than a two word descriptions of their race/class, how about what tactics they used, what spells were cast, who died first. These things will obviously have a bearing on who won as much as what their class and race were.
Jancarius 10-27-05, 10:44 PM	Being damaged by Cure is balanced by being healed by Inflict.