allignment under mind control [Archive] - Wizards Community

allignment under mind control [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Yaeri
05-21-05, 05:07 AM In the campaign I'm running there are (simply put) magical weapons which take control of their wielder. Once under control the wielder won't leave the weapon and the weapon remains in control of it's wielder for as long as it's in his/her/its posession.
Now the issue already arose when a Palladin/fighter came under control of such a weapon and started doing questionable things. But it's even more important now that one of the party members has obtained a weapon that gets a bonus versus someone with an evil allignment.

My question is: would a good person under 'permanent' evil control (because of such a mindcontrolling weapon), be considered to have a good or an evil allignment for game-technical purposes?
MarkB
05-21-05, 05:34 AM Is there any possible way to break the control, as with Dominate Person spells or intelligent items with high Ego scores?

If so, the person's alignment is unchanged, and they have a chance of breaking free if forced to act against their alignment or interests.

If not, then the character is, for all practical purposes, absent, and you NPC them using the weapon's personality and alignment.
Yaeri
05-21-05, 06:03 AM The characters under control are always NPC's. None such weapons have fallen into the hands of PC's, and none will, as they are now aware of the threat. The weapons aren't intelligent weapons as such, they are linked to one posessed masterweapon that excerts control over all these npc's through the cursed weapons.
The curse of the weapon is reversible. If the NPC is killed and resurected the curse is lifted. If the NPC is disarmed by force he/she/it will enter a state of madness and craving for the weapon. This can be stopped with a remove curse spell. Other side-effects of the weapon heal over time or with a restoration spell.

The breaking free when forced to do something against their allignment is handled completely arbitrary in my campaign. Most NPC's fight a mental battle with the weapon at first, and depending on their mental strength they succumb slowly or quickly, but most after 1 to 3 days. But there was for example a dragon in my campaign who had a weapon thrown into her possession. She had been fighting the curse for a month, unable to leave the weapon, unable to harm it, but not succumbing to it's mind control. In the end one of the mind-controlled NPC's dropped by her lair again to throw in another cursed weapon. And under the strength of two such weapons her resistance started crumbling.
MarkB
05-21-05, 07:02 AM With that clarification, it sounds rather like the curse of lycanthropy. Characters could be faced with temporary lapses into the weapon's alignment, and successively harder Will saves to avoid the alignment change becoming permanent.
Flushmaster
05-21-05, 04:38 PM If the character is not in control of their actions, then they are not responsible for those actions. A detect evil spell (or the paladin class feature) would not show any evil aura from a posessed character (unless they were already evil before encountering the posessing weapon) and if that character would normally have an aura of good (mainly paladins and good aligned clerics, but some PrCs and special conditions can grant this as well) then it would still show up as normal under scrutiny from detect good.

Detecting a strong aura of good around a paladin as he does something obviously evil should cause anybody to pause and think, "Okay, what the hell is going on here?" If it has the power to control the actions of characters, I'd suggest that the magical weapon gets an aura of evil and shows up to detect evil. Most people agree that robbing somebody of their free will is one of the most evil things you can do, and in my book that's worth an evil aura.

A weapon with the holy special enhancement, or any other enhancement that grants attack or damage bonuses against evil creatures would get the same bonuses while making a sunder attempt against an evil weapon of this degree of evilness. It would not, however, get those bonuses against a good character under the item's control because that character isn't evil (they're just being controlled by something evil).

If/when freed, good characters shouldn't lose any special abilities or such because they weren't committing the evil acts. They probably should still feel really bad about it and need something like counseling or a lot of personal meditation and prayer to come to terms with it personally, particularly in the case of extremely pious individuals such as paladins and good aligned clerics.
Yaeri
05-21-05, 04:50 PM If/when freed, good characters shouldn't lose any special abilities or such because they weren't committing the evil acts.
I just want to clarify that I wasn't thinking anything along those lines. In the palladin/fighter example I gave, I was more wondering if the palladin would be able to use his abilities while under control. At the moment I can't quite remember if I let him keep his abilities or if I reversed everything to it's evil version (only for as long as the mindcontrol lasted of course)

About all the rest you said: my friend's opinion on the matter was exactly the same.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Yaeri 05-21-05, 05:07 AM	In the campaign I'm running there are (simply put) magical weapons which take control of their wielder. Once under control the wielder won't leave the weapon and the weapon remains in control of it's wielder for as long as it's in his/her/its posession. Now the issue already arose when a Palladin/fighter came under control of such a weapon and started doing questionable things. But it's even more important now that one of the party members has obtained a weapon that gets a bonus versus someone with an evil allignment. My question is: would a good person under 'permanent' evil control (because of such a mindcontrolling weapon), be considered to have a good or an evil allignment for game-technical purposes?
MarkB 05-21-05, 05:34 AM	Is there any possible way to break the control, as with Dominate Person spells or intelligent items with high Ego scores? If so, the person's alignment is unchanged, and they have a chance of breaking free if forced to act against their alignment or interests. If not, then the character is, for all practical purposes, absent, and you NPC them using the weapon's personality and alignment.
Yaeri 05-21-05, 06:03 AM	The characters under control are always NPC's. None such weapons have fallen into the hands of PC's, and none will, as they are now aware of the threat. The weapons aren't intelligent weapons as such, they are linked to one posessed masterweapon that excerts control over all these npc's through the cursed weapons. The curse of the weapon is reversible. If the NPC is killed and resurected the curse is lifted. If the NPC is disarmed by force he/she/it will enter a state of madness and craving for the weapon. This can be stopped with a remove curse spell. Other side-effects of the weapon heal over time or with a restoration spell. The breaking free when forced to do something against their allignment is handled completely arbitrary in my campaign. Most NPC's fight a mental battle with the weapon at first, and depending on their mental strength they succumb slowly or quickly, but most after 1 to 3 days. But there was for example a dragon in my campaign who had a weapon thrown into her possession. She had been fighting the curse for a month, unable to leave the weapon, unable to harm it, but not succumbing to it's mind control. In the end one of the mind-controlled NPC's dropped by her lair again to throw in another cursed weapon. And under the strength of two such weapons her resistance started crumbling.
MarkB 05-21-05, 07:02 AM	With that clarification, it sounds rather like the curse of lycanthropy. Characters could be faced with temporary lapses into the weapon's alignment, and successively harder Will saves to avoid the alignment change becoming permanent.
Flushmaster 05-21-05, 04:38 PM	If the character is not in control of their actions, then they are not responsible for those actions. A detect evil spell (or the paladin class feature) would not show any evil aura from a posessed character (unless they were already evil before encountering the posessing weapon) and if that character would normally have an aura of good (mainly paladins and good aligned clerics, but some PrCs and special conditions can grant this as well) then it would still show up as normal under scrutiny from detect good. Detecting a strong aura of good around a paladin as he does something obviously evil should cause anybody to pause and think, "Okay, what the hell is going on here?" If it has the power to control the actions of characters, I'd suggest that the magical weapon gets an aura of evil and shows up to detect evil. Most people agree that robbing somebody of their free will is one of the most evil things you can do, and in my book that's worth an evil aura. A weapon with the holy special enhancement, or any other enhancement that grants attack or damage bonuses against evil creatures would get the same bonuses while making a sunder attempt against an evil weapon of this degree of evilness. It would not, however, get those bonuses against a good character under the item's control because that character isn't evil (they're just being controlled by something evil). If/when freed, good characters shouldn't lose any special abilities or such because they weren't committing the evil acts. They probably should still feel really bad about it and need something like counseling or a lot of personal meditation and prayer to come to terms with it personally, particularly in the case of extremely pious individuals such as paladins and good aligned clerics.
Yaeri 05-21-05, 04:50 PM	If/when freed, good characters shouldn't lose any special abilities or such because they weren't committing the evil acts. I just want to clarify that I wasn't thinking anything along those lines. In the palladin/fighter example I gave, I was more wondering if the palladin would be able to use his abilities while under control. At the moment I can't quite remember if I let him keep his abilities or if I reversed everything to it's evil version (only for as long as the mindcontrol lasted of course) About all the rest you said: my friend's opinion on the matter was exactly the same.