Allowing sneak attack as a feat? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Allowing sneak attack as a feat? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BlackDragonStew
01-31-07, 10:39 PM Would it be a horrible thing to give players the choice to pick up sneak attack as a feat.

I would think it would be ok as long as they only get 1d6, and the only way to improve it would be by taking another feat.

This would have to be a new feat.

"Deeper Cut" (or something)
Prerequisites:
Proficient with weapon,
Ability to make a sneak attack, and
Base attack bonus of +6 or better
Benefit:
You gain an additional 1d4 damage on sneak attack rolls

I do realize rouges would benefit from this feat also.
Please tell me if I'm crazy or not.:thinks:
DM Denubis
01-31-07, 10:46 PM Seeing as how that feat is vastly inferior to Craven from Champions of Ruin, I see no problem with it. It's very weak, though.

Anyhow, aren't there enough classes with Sneak Attack that if a player wanted it, they could simply multiclass?
BlackDragonStew
01-31-07, 10:56 PM Seeing as how that feat is vastly inferior to Craven from Champions of Ruin, I see no problem with it. It's very weak, though.

Anyhow, aren't there enough classes with Sneak Attack that if a player wanted it, they could simply multiclass?

The PC is looking to have it as a cleric, for some Proficiency Class I don't remember right now. He also wants to not multiclass.

It would not be a class feature and therefore Craven wouldn't be usable. (am I right?)
ressurrector
02-01-07, 02:16 AM Give him 1d6 of Sudden Strike (it's like Sneak attack, but more limited, and allows him to qualify as though it was SA)
StoneStokes
02-01-07, 02:25 AM The PC is looking to have it as a cleric, for some Proficiency Class I don't remember right now. He also wants to not multiclass.

It would not be a class feature and therefore Craven wouldn't be usable. (am I right?)

You could modify the Prestige Class...
Anaxander
02-01-07, 07:18 AM Would it be a horrible thing to give players the choice to pick up sneak attack as a feat.

No.

I would think it would be ok as long as they only get 1d6, and the only way to improve it would be by taking another feat.

This would have to be a new feat.

"Deeper Cut" (or something)
Prerequisites:
Proficient with weapon,
Ability to make a sneak attack, and
Base attack bonus of +6 or better
Benefit:
You gain an additional 1d4 damage on sneak attack rolls

I do realize rouges would benefit from this feat also.
Please tell me if I'm crazy or not.:thinks:

I would let them just take another +1d6 dmg sneak attack feat. However, you could add the restriction that, when gaining sneak attack through this feat chain, you can have a maximum d6 sneak attack of half your bab.
So a fighter with 4 bab can take two sneak attack feats, but no more.
A rogue cannot take this feat since he wouldn't benefit from it.
Sildatorak
02-01-07, 07:42 AM A rogue cannot take this feat since he wouldn't benefit from it.
Unless he had multiclassed, in which case the feat serves a role similar to Practiced Caster. I think instead of 1/2 your BAB as the cap, make it 1/2 your character level.
Anaxander
02-01-07, 07:46 AM Unless he had multiclassed, in which case the feat serves a role similar to Practiced Caster. I think instead of 1/2 your BAB as the cap, make it 1/2 your character level.

Good point, so why change it to character level?
Burgundy Lotus
02-01-07, 08:21 AM Unless he had multiclassed, in which case the feat serves a role similar to Practiced Caster. I think instead of 1/2 your BAB as the cap, make it 1/2 your character level.

I don't see as it would make a difference if it was class or character level.
Radijs
02-01-07, 10:14 AM It would matter for characters with lower BAB due to multiclassing or having an average or low BAB.

Personally I'm hesistant about allowing this. Some PRC's have a certain amount of sneak attack as a prerequisite. Adding this feat would allow earlier entry into those classes. I don't have examples ready but it could lead to brokenation.
johnkretzer
02-01-07, 11:38 AM One the problems I can see with this is that it allow people to get into PrCs that are meant to make Multi-classes combos more playable without multi-classing...Like the Arcane Trickster or the Black Flame Zealot.

Now if you have no problem with it that is fine but you shouldn't go into this blind. Their is a reason why the rules exists.
the_rooster
02-01-07, 02:25 PM The way you plan it out--1 feat per 1d6 damage--is perfectly within balance. Take the fighter variant from Unearthed Arcana, as per the SRD:

Fighter
Some fighters prefer stealth and cunning over martial skill. This variant can also be combined with the thug variant.

Gain
Sneak attack (as rogue).

Lose
Bonus feats.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighter
BlackDragonStew
02-01-07, 03:08 PM Thank you all for your help.

I was trying to avoid just allowing a feat to add 1d6, because that is Improved Sneak Attack- an epic feat.

I am interested in this Sudden Strike feat as an alternative. Can anyone tell me what book it is in?

Thanks again.
Sildatorak
02-01-07, 03:35 PM I don't see as it would make a difference if it was class or character level.The earlier suggestion was to cap it based on BAB. I just prefer to put it on something that is going to increase at a steady rate no matter what classes the character chooses.

One the problems I can see with this is that it allow people to get into PrCs that are meant to make Multi-classes combos more playable without multi-classing...Like the Arcane Trickster or the Black Flame Zealot.Good point. A disclaimer stating that the SA from the feat doesn't count toward meeting pre-reqs might not be a bad idea.

I am interested in this Sudden Strike feat as an alternative. Can anyone tell me what book it is in?Sudden Strike is in a variety of books. I think it made its first appearance with the ninja in Complete Adventurer. As far as a feat that grants it, though, any such thing is just as homebrewed as a sneak attack feat.
Radijs
02-01-07, 05:31 PM Sudden strike works exactly like sneak attack and counts as sneak attack for qualifying for PRC's. The only diffrence is that you don't get sudden strike against a flanked foe.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BlackDragonStew 01-31-07, 10:39 PM	Would it be a horrible thing to give players the choice to pick up sneak attack as a feat. I would think it would be ok as long as they only get 1d6, and the only way to improve it would be by taking another feat. This would have to be a new feat. "Deeper Cut" (or something) Prerequisites: Proficient with weapon, Ability to make a sneak attack, and Base attack bonus of +6 or better Benefit: You gain an additional 1d4 damage on sneak attack rolls I do realize rouges would benefit from this feat also. Please tell me if I'm crazy or not.:thinks:
DM Denubis 01-31-07, 10:46 PM	Seeing as how that feat is vastly inferior to Craven from Champions of Ruin, I see no problem with it. It's very weak, though. Anyhow, aren't there enough classes with Sneak Attack that if a player wanted it, they could simply multiclass?
BlackDragonStew 01-31-07, 10:56 PM	Seeing as how that feat is vastly inferior to Craven from Champions of Ruin, I see no problem with it. It's very weak, though. Anyhow, aren't there enough classes with Sneak Attack that if a player wanted it, they could simply multiclass? The PC is looking to have it as a cleric, for some Proficiency Class I don't remember right now. He also wants to not multiclass. It would not be a class feature and therefore Craven wouldn't be usable. (am I right?)
ressurrector 02-01-07, 02:16 AM	Give him 1d6 of Sudden Strike (it's like Sneak attack, but more limited, and allows him to qualify as though it was SA)
StoneStokes 02-01-07, 02:25 AM	The PC is looking to have it as a cleric, for some Proficiency Class I don't remember right now. He also wants to not multiclass. It would not be a class feature and therefore Craven wouldn't be usable. (am I right?) You could modify the Prestige Class...
Anaxander 02-01-07, 07:18 AM	Would it be a horrible thing to give players the choice to pick up sneak attack as a feat. No. I would think it would be ok as long as they only get 1d6, and the only way to improve it would be by taking another feat. This would have to be a new feat. "Deeper Cut" (or something) Prerequisites: Proficient with weapon, Ability to make a sneak attack, and Base attack bonus of +6 or better Benefit: You gain an additional 1d4 damage on sneak attack rolls I do realize rouges would benefit from this feat also. Please tell me if I'm crazy or not.:thinks: I would let them just take another +1d6 dmg sneak attack feat. However, you could add the restriction that, when gaining sneak attack through this feat chain, you can have a maximum d6 sneak attack of half your bab. So a fighter with 4 bab can take two sneak attack feats, but no more. A rogue cannot take this feat since he wouldn't benefit from it.
Sildatorak 02-01-07, 07:42 AM	A rogue cannot take this feat since he wouldn't benefit from it. Unless he had multiclassed, in which case the feat serves a role similar to Practiced Caster. I think instead of 1/2 your BAB as the cap, make it 1/2 your character level.
Anaxander 02-01-07, 07:46 AM	Unless he had multiclassed, in which case the feat serves a role similar to Practiced Caster. I think instead of 1/2 your BAB as the cap, make it 1/2 your character level. Good point, so why change it to character level?
Burgundy Lotus 02-01-07, 08:21 AM	Unless he had multiclassed, in which case the feat serves a role similar to Practiced Caster. I think instead of 1/2 your BAB as the cap, make it 1/2 your character level. I don't see as it would make a difference if it was class or character level.
Radijs 02-01-07, 10:14 AM	It would matter for characters with lower BAB due to multiclassing or having an average or low BAB. Personally I'm hesistant about allowing this. Some PRC's have a certain amount of sneak attack as a prerequisite. Adding this feat would allow earlier entry into those classes. I don't have examples ready but it could lead to brokenation.
johnkretzer 02-01-07, 11:38 AM	One the problems I can see with this is that it allow people to get into PrCs that are meant to make Multi-classes combos more playable without multi-classing...Like the Arcane Trickster or the Black Flame Zealot. Now if you have no problem with it that is fine but you shouldn't go into this blind. Their is a reason why the rules exists.
the_rooster 02-01-07, 02:25 PM	The way you plan it out--1 feat per 1d6 damage--is perfectly within balance. Take the fighter variant from Unearthed Arcana, as per the SRD: Fighter Some fighters prefer stealth and cunning over martial skill. This variant can also be combined with the thug variant. Gain Sneak attack (as rogue). Lose Bonus feats. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighter
BlackDragonStew 02-01-07, 03:08 PM	Thank you all for your help. I was trying to avoid just allowing a feat to add 1d6, because that is Improved Sneak Attack- an epic feat. I am interested in this Sudden Strike feat as an alternative. Can anyone tell me what book it is in? Thanks again.
Sildatorak 02-01-07, 03:35 PM	I don't see as it would make a difference if it was class or character level.The earlier suggestion was to cap it based on BAB. I just prefer to put it on something that is going to increase at a steady rate no matter what classes the character chooses. One the problems I can see with this is that it allow people to get into PrCs that are meant to make Multi-classes combos more playable without multi-classing...Like the Arcane Trickster or the Black Flame Zealot.Good point. A disclaimer stating that the SA from the feat doesn't count toward meeting pre-reqs might not be a bad idea. I am interested in this Sudden Strike feat as an alternative. Can anyone tell me what book it is in?Sudden Strike is in a variety of books. I think it made its first appearance with the ninja in Complete Adventurer. As far as a feat that grants it, though, any such thing is just as homebrewed as a sneak attack feat.
Radijs 02-01-07, 05:31 PM	Sudden strike works exactly like sneak attack and counts as sneak attack for qualifying for PRC's. The only diffrence is that you don't get sudden strike against a flanked foe.