Allowing Spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Allowing Spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Munz
09-29-05, 10:32 AM Which spells do you fellow DMs allow in your game? Particularly, which spells do you allow your players to freely have access to? I currently and in the past have only allowed "free" access to spells of the PHB, with the option to learn a new spell from any of the other books available (barring the appropriate funds and spellcraft check, of course).

Do many others use this same ruling or should I allow more spells for the players to have "free" access to?
Illion the Red
09-29-05, 10:37 AM For the most part I allow access to any spell from any book that I own. If the spell is specific to another campaign, the player will have to go to the effort to research it on their own. Mind you, in my campaign, the connection to the Astral Plane is spotty at best, so transportaion spells (teleport and the like) are generally not around and are highly risky at best.
Rumple_Cragstan
09-29-05, 10:41 AM I allow anything thats in a 3.5 WotC book that can be reliably brought to session week after week (so no borrowed books). If there's any non-WotC books that I'm allowing, I'll tell the players when it becomes available.

Then again, its mostly because my players love to RP thier spells, and very few of the spellcasters don't have a theme. But with core-only requirements you don't get too much diversity in spell selection (there's only so many cold-based spells)
N-|)
09-29-05, 10:43 AM I pretty much allow any WotC spells. No 3rd party. My group is pretty consistent with not randomly bringing in new stuff though.
Draco Strang
09-29-05, 10:59 AM My players always have free reign of the PHB, and are allowed to bring in spells from WOTC supplements for me to review and approve. In my homebrew however, I've cut a few spells from every classes spell list.
tennesseefats
09-29-05, 11:11 AM We use the PHB primarily, but research into new spells is encouraged. I'd rather work out a nifty new spell with at player - one that fits the character, than dig through every possible supplement to find one that's 'pretty close' to the PC's desired effect.
Munz
09-29-05, 11:16 AM I like tennesseefats' take on it, as that fits closest to what I'm trying to do myself. For everyone else's input, I have a question. Do you find any kind of balance issue among players that have spells from other books versus other pcs/nps/whatever. Also, my fear on this is that the spellcraft skill will become much less used (if not useless) if they can take any spell automatically. For those that allow this themselves, any thoughts you might share my way?
Eagle1993
09-29-05, 12:25 PM For the most part I allow access to any spell from any book that I own.

I made this rule in my game, then suddenly my players were buying me Supplement books. :D

Other then that, the only spell I have a restriction on is Identify. The wizards who know it, have it monopolized.
prettyripples
09-29-05, 12:32 PM If you want some variety in your spells, here's a very easy way: make up a new description for an existing spell.

For example, one of my characters was an aging hero who was just a little past it now. His signature spell was a dramatic lightning bolt which scorched through the air and frazzled everything in the vicinty to a crisp. By now, though, he's not so precise with that handwaving and when the pressure's on it tends to come out as a small flash in front of his opponent's nose.

Now haven't I just made the bard's cantrip "Flare" rather more interesting? It also means that as he levels up, I could swap flare for something more powerful, and claim he's "getting the hang of it again".
CzarGarrett
09-29-05, 01:10 PM Spells in the PHB are free game.

Spells in other books are available if an NPC uses them against the party, or if the PC researches a spell similiar to it.
Millennium
09-29-05, 01:30 PM I always allow spells from the PHB. I treat other things like with classes: if it's not in a core book, talk to me about it. If it's still WOTC I'll probably allow it, otherwise I'll either allow it, ban it outright, or require the character to research it himself.

There is one other consequence, though: any spell the characters are allowed, unless they researched it themselves, will also be allowed to NPCs and enemies (barring things like alignment requirements and such). Spells the characters research themselves won't be allowed to NPCs until the spells become famous enough that other spellcasters start trying to emulate them. They can serve as 'secret weapons' for a time, but if the characters start throwing around brand-new spells too often then eventually someone is going to notice.
Munz
09-29-05, 02:02 PM Does anybody besides me feel that by allowing spells from the other books as "free" choices reduces the need for spellcraft as a skill?
Illion the Red
09-29-05, 02:08 PM Does anybody besides me feel that by allowing spells from the other books as "free" choices reduces the need for spellcraft as a skill?

I'm not sure. Spellcraft is still needed for counterspelling, but I have yet to actually see a spellcaster try it, but I'm not sure if my experience is unique in that regard.

Since I will allow spells from elsewhere to be researched and developed, it's not an issue for me.

The other side of the coin is that spellcraft is an absolute essential for an Epic Arcane spellcaster. I realize the not everyone likes (or even uses) Epic, but that is another use.
drake_vampiel_d
09-29-05, 02:35 PM If it's a wizard I make them do a spellcraft check for anything other than PHB if they are sorcerers I make a desision but the person has to show me the book they got it from and what it does so noone gets anything Uber powerful.
tennesseefats
09-29-05, 02:48 PM Does anybody besides me feel that by allowing spells from the other books as "free" choices reduces the need for spellcraft as a skill?

IF that was the only use for Spellcraft, I could see your point. However, Spellcraft has more uses then scribing scrolls into a spellbook and learning new spells (the name itself is kind of a misnomer; it has less to do with crafting spells than the name implies).

Off the top of my head:

- Identify a spelling being cast
- Identify a spell in use ("How does that statue talk?" sez the stalwart tank. *roll* "Magic Mouth my good man" replies his wizardly buddy)
- Identify potions
- Identify spell effects that create items - such as animated objects, images, etc.
- Identify the aura of a magic that is given off using detect magic ("That ring, although I don't know what it does, gives off a strong aura of abjuration")
- Drawing the correct glyphs to anchor beings that are summoned (and who really wants that Vrock you summoned to run amok? Especially when you provide an excellent target)

Basically Spellcraft allows you to determine spells and magic effects. If a PC declines to take ranks in Spellcraft (and woe to them) because they get free spells, they lose out on identifying all the non-spell effects and auras that magic creates/leaves behind.

Please note, these are PHB uses, and there are others that may be campaign specific, and some DMs may use other checks in place of Spellcraft (Replacing them with Knowledge (Arcana) checks for example...don't know why, but I've seen it done) for the above scenarios.
AlphaSquirell
09-29-05, 03:36 PM I allow PHB spells, and then all others need approval first. I'm pretty leniant, so it's more to see what spells they have, than to restrict what spells they use. (I'm not as familiar with non PHB spells)

I'm more likely to restrict weapons than spells. (One player wanted to fight with "Net and Trident" and frankly, I don't want to go into weapon style feats. (I don't want him to become useless without his weapons)
tiercel
09-29-05, 07:34 PM Like most here, I allow PHB spells (with the occasional proviso on a spell that is problematic, potentially problematic, or has flavor difficulties within my campaign). I allow non-Core spells upon request and approval (generally "yes" on WotC sources and generally "no" on other d20 sources, but neither of those are ironbound).

Sometimes I'm tempted to just allow all the WotC supplemental spells, but 1) I need to make sure I know all of them well before doing that, and 2) this gives casters like the cleric and the druid, who can access every spell on their class list, a big advantage. Wizards have to go out and research/buy/obtain and copy a new spell in order to use it, sorcerers (and casters with a similar mechanic) have to use a precious "spell known" slot, but clerics and druids get all of these lovely new options "for free" if I open the floodgates.
celtredleg
09-29-05, 10:36 PM I generaly allow any WOTC product spell. Non WOTC spells are usually not allowed, if for no other reason than I dont own most of them.
Munz
09-30-05, 10:01 AM Thanks guys, I'll have to consider this in my future games.
Moon-Lancer
09-30-05, 10:36 AM my dm usaly allows spells from any wotc sorce as long as it fits the flavor of the charicter and isent too powerfull.

player handbook and the compleat books are free rain with maybe the exception of quill blast. Other spells from other books have to be approved by the dm.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Munz 09-29-05, 10:32 AM	Which spells do you fellow DMs allow in your game? Particularly, which spells do you allow your players to freely have access to? I currently and in the past have only allowed "free" access to spells of the PHB, with the option to learn a new spell from any of the other books available (barring the appropriate funds and spellcraft check, of course). Do many others use this same ruling or should I allow more spells for the players to have "free" access to?
Illion the Red 09-29-05, 10:37 AM	For the most part I allow access to any spell from any book that I own. If the spell is specific to another campaign, the player will have to go to the effort to research it on their own. Mind you, in my campaign, the connection to the Astral Plane is spotty at best, so transportaion spells (teleport and the like) are generally not around and are highly risky at best.
Rumple_Cragstan 09-29-05, 10:41 AM	I allow anything thats in a 3.5 WotC book that can be reliably brought to session week after week (so no borrowed books). If there's any non-WotC books that I'm allowing, I'll tell the players when it becomes available. Then again, its mostly because my players love to RP thier spells, and very few of the spellcasters don't have a theme. But with core-only requirements you don't get too much diversity in spell selection (there's only so many cold-based spells)
N-\|) 09-29-05, 10:43 AM	I pretty much allow any WotC spells. No 3rd party. My group is pretty consistent with not randomly bringing in new stuff though.
Draco Strang 09-29-05, 10:59 AM	My players always have free reign of the PHB, and are allowed to bring in spells from WOTC supplements for me to review and approve. In my homebrew however, I've cut a few spells from every classes spell list.
tennesseefats 09-29-05, 11:11 AM	We use the PHB primarily, but research into new spells is encouraged. I'd rather work out a nifty new spell with at player - one that fits the character, than dig through every possible supplement to find one that's 'pretty close' to the PC's desired effect.
Munz 09-29-05, 11:16 AM	I like tennesseefats' take on it, as that fits closest to what I'm trying to do myself. For everyone else's input, I have a question. Do you find any kind of balance issue among players that have spells from other books versus other pcs/nps/whatever. Also, my fear on this is that the spellcraft skill will become much less used (if not useless) if they can take any spell automatically. For those that allow this themselves, any thoughts you might share my way?
Eagle1993 09-29-05, 12:25 PM	For the most part I allow access to any spell from any book that I own. I made this rule in my game, then suddenly my players were buying me Supplement books. :D Other then that, the only spell I have a restriction on is Identify. The wizards who know it, have it monopolized.
prettyripples 09-29-05, 12:32 PM	If you want some variety in your spells, here's a very easy way: make up a new description for an existing spell. For example, one of my characters was an aging hero who was just a little past it now. His signature spell was a dramatic lightning bolt which scorched through the air and frazzled everything in the vicinty to a crisp. By now, though, he's not so precise with that handwaving and when the pressure's on it tends to come out as a small flash in front of his opponent's nose. Now haven't I just made the bard's cantrip "Flare" rather more interesting? It also means that as he levels up, I could swap flare for something more powerful, and claim he's "getting the hang of it again".
CzarGarrett 09-29-05, 01:10 PM	Spells in the PHB are free game. Spells in other books are available if an NPC uses them against the party, or if the PC researches a spell similiar to it.
Millennium 09-29-05, 01:30 PM	I always allow spells from the PHB. I treat other things like with classes: if it's not in a core book, talk to me about it. If it's still WOTC I'll probably allow it, otherwise I'll either allow it, ban it outright, or require the character to research it himself. There is one other consequence, though: any spell the characters are allowed, unless they researched it themselves, will also be allowed to NPCs and enemies (barring things like alignment requirements and such). Spells the characters research themselves won't be allowed to NPCs until the spells become famous enough that other spellcasters start trying to emulate them. They can serve as 'secret weapons' for a time, but if the characters start throwing around brand-new spells too often then eventually someone is going to notice.
Munz 09-29-05, 02:02 PM	Does anybody besides me feel that by allowing spells from the other books as "free" choices reduces the need for spellcraft as a skill?
Illion the Red 09-29-05, 02:08 PM	Does anybody besides me feel that by allowing spells from the other books as "free" choices reduces the need for spellcraft as a skill? I'm not sure. Spellcraft is still needed for counterspelling, but I have yet to actually see a spellcaster try it, but I'm not sure if my experience is unique in that regard. Since I will allow spells from elsewhere to be researched and developed, it's not an issue for me. The other side of the coin is that spellcraft is an absolute essential for an Epic Arcane spellcaster. I realize the not everyone likes (or even uses) Epic, but that is another use.
drake_vampiel_d 09-29-05, 02:35 PM	If it's a wizard I make them do a spellcraft check for anything other than PHB if they are sorcerers I make a desision but the person has to show me the book they got it from and what it does so noone gets anything Uber powerful.
tennesseefats 09-29-05, 02:48 PM	Does anybody besides me feel that by allowing spells from the other books as "free" choices reduces the need for spellcraft as a skill? IF that was the only use for Spellcraft, I could see your point. However, Spellcraft has more uses then scribing scrolls into a spellbook and learning new spells (the name itself is kind of a misnomer; it has less to do with crafting spells than the name implies). Off the top of my head: - Identify a spelling being cast - Identify a spell in use ("How does that statue talk?" sez the stalwart tank. roll "Magic Mouth my good man" replies his wizardly buddy) - Identify potions - Identify spell effects that create items - such as animated objects, images, etc. - Identify the aura of a magic that is given off using detect magic ("That ring, although I don't know what it does, gives off a strong aura of abjuration") - Drawing the correct glyphs to anchor beings that are summoned (and who really wants that Vrock you summoned to run amok? Especially when you provide an excellent target) Basically Spellcraft allows you to determine spells and magic effects. If a PC declines to take ranks in Spellcraft (and woe to them) because they get free spells, they lose out on identifying all the non-spell effects and auras that magic creates/leaves behind. Please note, these are PHB uses, and there are others that may be campaign specific, and some DMs may use other checks in place of Spellcraft (Replacing them with Knowledge (Arcana) checks for example...don't know why, but I've seen it done) for the above scenarios.
AlphaSquirell 09-29-05, 03:36 PM	I allow PHB spells, and then all others need approval first. I'm pretty leniant, so it's more to see what spells they have, than to restrict what spells they use. (I'm not as familiar with non PHB spells) I'm more likely to restrict weapons than spells. (One player wanted to fight with "Net and Trident" and frankly, I don't want to go into weapon style feats. (I don't want him to become useless without his weapons)
tiercel 09-29-05, 07:34 PM	Like most here, I allow PHB spells (with the occasional proviso on a spell that is problematic, potentially problematic, or has flavor difficulties within my campaign). I allow non-Core spells upon request and approval (generally "yes" on WotC sources and generally "no" on other d20 sources, but neither of those are ironbound). Sometimes I'm tempted to just allow all the WotC supplemental spells, but 1) I need to make sure I know all of them well before doing that, and 2) this gives casters like the cleric and the druid, who can access every spell on their class list, a big advantage. Wizards have to go out and research/buy/obtain and copy a new spell in order to use it, sorcerers (and casters with a similar mechanic) have to use a precious "spell known" slot, but clerics and druids get all of these lovely new options "for free" if I open the floodgates.
celtredleg 09-29-05, 10:36 PM	I generaly allow any WOTC product spell. Non WOTC spells are usually not allowed, if for no other reason than I dont own most of them.
Munz 09-30-05, 10:01 AM	Thanks guys, I'll have to consider this in my future games.
Moon-Lancer 09-30-05, 10:36 AM	my dm usaly allows spells from any wotc sorce as long as it fits the flavor of the charicter and isent too powerfull. player handbook and the compleat books are free rain with maybe the exception of quill blast. Other spells from other books have to be approved by the dm.