Almost a year removed... Feels good to be back! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Almost a year removed... Feels good to be back! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
cigaran
06-19-05, 03:58 PM Well, after almost a year of no D&D and I'm finally getting back into it. Many issues irl kept me from doing what I love the most but finally, the books are on the table, the dice are rolling and the ideas are comming faster then I can jot them down!!

Now, there's one big issue that I have with DMing and have had since 3rd edition. I can understand the EL and CL rules for a 4 player party but I get really lost when theres more then 4 and I try to balance the encounter. Is there a easier way to explain this then what is in the 3.5 DMG? We're running with 6 (my personal limit) players and up 'til now, I've just been tossing what seems to work at them. While this can work for a short time, it's not really going to hold up over a long campaign.

Any help is appreciated and will be repaid in ale! :D
Gnome_Dragon_Disciple
06-19-05, 04:16 PM To me, the job got a lot easier when you realise that 1 level is equal to 1 CR. I use the rules for calculating CR for the party, then try to match the party's CR with the encounter.

But for the most part, I try to run custom encounters, only rarely using actual monsters for an encounter.
RubberDuckie
06-19-05, 04:16 PM Calculate your party's EL, as if they're NPCs themselves, and compare it to the opposition. Mind though that the party's EL should be higher for a regular encounter, equal EL's are rather deadly (comparable to CR+4 for a party with four members).
Skeane
06-19-05, 04:44 PM You might already have this stuff down; if so I apologize, if not:

you've got three basic things: Game Session >> Encounters >> Challenges.

Your Session is comprised of a given amount of encounters and your encounters are comprised of a given amount of challenges.

At the end of the Game Session, you award xp. This is determined largely by the number of encounters.

Encounters have Encounter Levels (EL)
This is the difficulty of a given encounter. A group that's pitted against a really challenging encounter should be rewarded with more experience than an easy peasy challenge.

Challenges and Challenge Ratings (CR)
Your encounter has 'things' in it: traps, monsters, whatever. These things need to be defeated. Some are harder than others to defeat, so you assign each of the things a Challenge Rating to keep track of what's easy and what's hard.

ELs and CRs are assigned number values.

A monster with a CR of 6 is suitable to pit against a party of 4 sixth level characters. The CR6 monster will be harder for 3 sixth level characters and easier for a party of 5 sixth level characters. Regardless of your party combo, the CR stays the same.

The system is fair because the party of 5 dispatches the monster more easily, but must split the xp 5 ways. The party of 3 has a hard time, but they get to split it 3 ways.

In theory your dynamic of a party of 6 has 150% more 'muscle' than a standard 4 party setup. In practice, I find that this doesn't completely work out. You're probably better off testing the water by designing your current ELs with that standard 4-party layout (even though you've got 6) and scaling the stuff up a bit as needed. Your players wont get as much xp on their first couple of sessions, but it will keep you from preventing an unwanted TPK.
Karelzarath
06-19-05, 08:40 PM Now, there's one big issue that I have with DMing and have had since 3rd edition. I can understand the EL and CL rules for a 4 player party but I get really lost when theres more then 4 and I try to balance the encounter.
In general, I treat a 6-person party as a normal party one or two levels higher, depending on the opponent. If the party has a particular strength, though (like 3 combat-oriented members), then encounters in that area will be 1 EL lower to simulate their abundance of expertise in that area. For instance, a party of 3 fighters, a cleric, a wizard, and a rogue, all 6th level, would generally be considered to be an 7th level party, but against "beefy" opponents (those that have lots of HP but few special abilities) it would be a 8th. If that party were fighting a stone giant, for instance, I would drop the XP reward by 20% because it is an easy encounter.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
cigaran 06-19-05, 03:58 PM	Well, after almost a year of no D&D and I'm finally getting back into it. Many issues irl kept me from doing what I love the most but finally, the books are on the table, the dice are rolling and the ideas are comming faster then I can jot them down!! Now, there's one big issue that I have with DMing and have had since 3rd edition. I can understand the EL and CL rules for a 4 player party but I get really lost when theres more then 4 and I try to balance the encounter. Is there a easier way to explain this then what is in the 3.5 DMG? We're running with 6 (my personal limit) players and up 'til now, I've just been tossing what seems to work at them. While this can work for a short time, it's not really going to hold up over a long campaign. Any help is appreciated and will be repaid in ale! :D
Gnome_Dragon_Disciple 06-19-05, 04:16 PM	To me, the job got a lot easier when you realise that 1 level is equal to 1 CR. I use the rules for calculating CR for the party, then try to match the party's CR with the encounter. But for the most part, I try to run custom encounters, only rarely using actual monsters for an encounter.
RubberDuckie 06-19-05, 04:16 PM	Calculate your party's EL, as if they're NPCs themselves, and compare it to the opposition. Mind though that the party's EL should be higher for a regular encounter, equal EL's are rather deadly (comparable to CR+4 for a party with four members).
Skeane 06-19-05, 04:44 PM	You might already have this stuff down; if so I apologize, if not: you've got three basic things: Game Session >> Encounters >> Challenges. Your Session is comprised of a given amount of encounters and your encounters are comprised of a given amount of challenges. At the end of the Game Session, you award xp. This is determined largely by the number of encounters. Encounters have Encounter Levels (EL) This is the difficulty of a given encounter. A group that's pitted against a really challenging encounter should be rewarded with more experience than an easy peasy challenge. Challenges and Challenge Ratings (CR) Your encounter has 'things' in it: traps, monsters, whatever. These things need to be defeated. Some are harder than others to defeat, so you assign each of the things a Challenge Rating to keep track of what's easy and what's hard. ELs and CRs are assigned number values. A monster with a CR of 6 is suitable to pit against a party of 4 sixth level characters. The CR6 monster will be harder for 3 sixth level characters and easier for a party of 5 sixth level characters. Regardless of your party combo, the CR stays the same. The system is fair because the party of 5 dispatches the monster more easily, but must split the xp 5 ways. The party of 3 has a hard time, but they get to split it 3 ways. In theory your dynamic of a party of 6 has 150% more 'muscle' than a standard 4 party setup. In practice, I find that this doesn't completely work out. You're probably better off testing the water by designing your current ELs with that standard 4-party layout (even though you've got 6) and scaling the stuff up a bit as needed. Your players wont get as much xp on their first couple of sessions, but it will keep you from preventing an unwanted TPK.
Karelzarath 06-19-05, 08:40 PM	Now, there's one big issue that I have with DMing and have had since 3rd edition. I can understand the EL and CL rules for a 4 player party but I get really lost when theres more then 4 and I try to balance the encounter. In general, I treat a 6-person party as a normal party one or two levels higher, depending on the opponent. If the party has a particular strength, though (like 3 combat-oriented members), then encounters in that area will be 1 EL lower to simulate their abundance of expertise in that area. For instance, a party of 3 fighters, a cleric, a wizard, and a rogue, all 6th level, would generally be considered to be an 7th level party, but against "beefy" opponents (those that have lots of HP but few special abilities) it would be a 8th. If that party were fighting a stone giant, for instance, I would drop the XP reward by 20% because it is an easy encounter.