Altering This Character...What’s The Best Way? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Altering This Character...What’s The Best Way? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ebonarc
12-09-07, 12:47 PM I’m DMing a game with a party consisting of an elf sorcerer and a half-elf ranger. We’ve had three sessions, and hit 2nd level at the end of the last one. We won’t be playing again until January (we’re in college, and it’s finals week), so I have plenty of time to plan a solution to this little conundrum.

Here’s the conundrum: The ranger, who was to be the front line specialist in the campaign, isn’t stacking up as one. So, his player and I talked about what we could do to fix that. He’s already carrying a greatsword, so weapons aren’t an issue.

We realized that it was time for some multiclassing. He’s a new player, so he wasn’t sure what the options were. Based on the facts, I listed out these options: Barbarian, Paladin, Fighter, and Knight.

His character concept was of a kid from the city whose parents are killed by a massive, mafia-like criminal guild (the Red Knives, from DMG II) using a demon. The kid flees to live with his elf uncle, a druid in a nearby forest, under whom he gained the training necessary to become a ranger.

We eventually decided on Paladin, but that brought about some problems. How to explain his becoming a Paladin out of the blue? His character concept leaves plenty of leeway, since we never defined what he was doing during his city life. On the other hand, I don’t necessarily want to retcon something completely.

We’re planning on having him keep his first Ranger level (for both mechanical and flavor reasons) and altering his second (which he just barely gained) to be Paladin, but how should we do it? Retcon? Rebuild quest? Character concept rebuild? Or should we ditch Paladin (which we really like, since it fits a lot of his character concept already) and have him multiclass into Fighter or Knight (both of which would have their own annoying implications?
valcarde
12-09-07, 01:21 PM Mm.

If you're dead-set on multi-classing the Ranger into a Paladin, have the god the Ranger follows (or another one whom the Ranger respects) contact him in a dream, give him 'The Call'. However, he has to prove himself pure of heart, righteous, all that jazz... good set up for a quest to earn the right to call himself a Paladin. Once the quest is finished, bam, on the next level up, the Ranger can select Paladin as his class... but from that point, if he goes back to gaining levels as a Ranger, he can never again advance as a Paladin.

Or, just avoid the headache and go Knight.
cheezgrater
12-09-07, 04:35 PM Depending on some things like favored enemy choice, I've always thought paladin and ranger had some good.

A ranger with favored enemy undead should have some obvious use, but favored enemy Heretic (err....I mean...human) has some potential too.

If there is a theocratic society (city or nation ruled by a religious organization), Paladin/Rangers could become the upper branches of the law enforcement (track down criminals and pass holy judgement upon them). This could also open the possibility of using the Justiciar prestige class (CW. I love Justiciar, but it is so often overlooked since he doesn't kill things).

I personally dislike the "can't multiclass" restriction for paladins, and as such, if a player can provide a good solid flavor reason for multiclassing into a class or prestige class enabling the paladin to better serve his god/church/organization, I allow it.

Of course, if you just want to justify it by RAW, see Complete Adventurer. Specifically, the Devoted Tracker Feat. It allows free multiclassing between Paladin and Ranger, and allows the two sets of level to stack for certain things (like Smite Evil).

Technically, he couldn't take this feat until level 3, but you could easily allow him to have the benefit of it at level 2, with the understanding that he will take it as his third level feat.
Tequila_Sunrise
12-09-07, 04:55 PM Yeah, rangers definately do not make good frontliners. Having him multiclass to make up for a new player mistake just feels cruel. If he really wants to be a front liner I'd say he should just make a new character, or completely retrain his character from level 1. If he likes being a ranger, I suggest that you either write adventures that don't require front liners or give the group an NPC front liner.
KIDS
12-09-07, 05:40 PM I don't think a Paladin is a big problem provided his personality fits. If he's not...well, Paladin-ish, the concept goes down the drain. But if he has that personality (which doesn't mean a fanatic or a zealot or whatever!), it's easy to explain - he is chosen by a divine power or holy spirit which will aid him in his struggle.

However, it would be a great pity to lose 2nd ranger level. That's a very good level and at that level, you aren't going to see any significant advantage in frontlining between any of the said classes. Taking Paladin at 3rd and grabbing Devoted Tracker right there should work just fine though.
Ebonarc
12-09-07, 06:08 PM If you're dead-set on multi-classing the Ranger into a Paladin, have the god the Ranger follows (or another one whom the Ranger respects) contact him in a dream, give him 'The Call'. However, he has to prove himself pure of heart, righteous, all that jazz... good set up for a quest to earn the right to call himself a Paladin. Once the quest is finished, bam, on the next level up, the Ranger can select Paladin as his class... but from that point, if he goes back to gaining levels as a Ranger, he can never again advance as a Paladin.

Or, just avoid the headache and go Knight.

I've very strongly considered having him go on a sidequest in-game to become a paladin. The player himself would be alright with just retconning the backstory, and so am I, to a degree, but I want to find a better way.

Any ideas on good quest?
Depending on some things like favored enemy choice, I've always thought paladin and ranger had some good.So do I. And considering this ranger's favored enemy is Evil Outsider, we won't have any difficulties. Incidentally, evil outsider was chosen because the character's parents were killed by a demon (working for the Red Knives, but that's another story).

I personally dislike the "can't multiclass" restriction for paladins, and as such, if a player can provide a good solid flavor reason for multiclassing into a class or prestige class enabling the paladin to better serve his god/church/organization, I allow it.You and me both.:D

Of course, if you just want to justify it by RAW, see Complete Adventurer. Specifically, the Devoted Tracker Feat. It allows free multiclassing between Paladin and Ranger, and allows the two sets of level to stack for certain things (like Smite Evil).That's a good feat, and I'd have him look at it, but for one thing: we were already planning on using alternative class features to eliminate the animal companion and special mount. Though I might consider having it affect the alternate class features instead, if I can figure out a way.

If he really wants to be a front liner I'd say he should just make a new character He and I both want to avoid that at all costs-this is a very character driven campaign, and losing or replacing a character would destroy it story-wise. or completely retrain his character from level 1.We thought about that, but we both like the flavor of the ranger/paladin multiclass, and the ranger training is a thorough part of the character's backstory.If he likes being a ranger, I suggest that you either write adventures that don't require front liners or give the group an NPC front liner.He was originally equally divided between ranger and paladin. He chose ranger because we were expecting a third player to bring in a rogue whose personality (based on the player, who is Chaotic Stupid to a degree) would have clashed
with the paladin way too much.
I don't think a Paladin is a big problem provided his personality fits. If he's not...well, Paladin-ish, the concept goes down the drain. But if he has that personality (which doesn't mean a fanatic or a zealot or whatever!), it's easy to explain - he is chosen by a divine power or holy spirit which will aid him in his struggle. We've definitely got no problems here. The character could very easily be a paladin (he was already NG and a demonhunter anyway). The trouble is, how should we go about it?

However, it would be a great pity to lose 2nd ranger level. That's a very good level and at that level, you aren't going to see any significant advantage in frontlining between any of the said classes.I agree that it's a good level, but neither bonus feat does much good for him, since he mainly used his greatsword. Taking Paladin at 3rd and grabbing Devoted Tracker right there should work just fine though.That's one possibility.
Salla
12-09-07, 06:14 PM He could keep the Greatsword and get armor spikes, and TWF using them.

I'd recommend Fighter as the multiclass at that point, though.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ebonarc 12-09-07, 12:47 PM	I’m DMing a game with a party consisting of an elf sorcerer and a half-elf ranger. We’ve had three sessions, and hit 2nd level at the end of the last one. We won’t be playing again until January (we’re in college, and it’s finals week), so I have plenty of time to plan a solution to this little conundrum. Here’s the conundrum: The ranger, who was to be the front line specialist in the campaign, isn’t stacking up as one. So, his player and I talked about what we could do to fix that. He’s already carrying a greatsword, so weapons aren’t an issue. We realized that it was time for some multiclassing. He’s a new player, so he wasn’t sure what the options were. Based on the facts, I listed out these options: Barbarian, Paladin, Fighter, and Knight. His character concept was of a kid from the city whose parents are killed by a massive, mafia-like criminal guild (the Red Knives, from DMG II) using a demon. The kid flees to live with his elf uncle, a druid in a nearby forest, under whom he gained the training necessary to become a ranger. We eventually decided on Paladin, but that brought about some problems. How to explain his becoming a Paladin out of the blue? His character concept leaves plenty of leeway, since we never defined what he was doing during his city life. On the other hand, I don’t necessarily want to retcon something completely. We’re planning on having him keep his first Ranger level (for both mechanical and flavor reasons) and altering his second (which he just barely gained) to be Paladin, but how should we do it? Retcon? Rebuild quest? Character concept rebuild? Or should we ditch Paladin (which we really like, since it fits a lot of his character concept already) and have him multiclass into Fighter or Knight (both of which would have their own annoying implications?
valcarde 12-09-07, 01:21 PM	Mm. If you're dead-set on multi-classing the Ranger into a Paladin, have the god the Ranger follows (or another one whom the Ranger respects) contact him in a dream, give him 'The Call'. However, he has to prove himself pure of heart, righteous, all that jazz... good set up for a quest to earn the right to call himself a Paladin. Once the quest is finished, bam, on the next level up, the Ranger can select Paladin as his class... but from that point, if he goes back to gaining levels as a Ranger, he can never again advance as a Paladin. Or, just avoid the headache and go Knight.
cheezgrater 12-09-07, 04:35 PM	Depending on some things like favored enemy choice, I've always thought paladin and ranger had some good. A ranger with favored enemy undead should have some obvious use, but favored enemy Heretic (err....I mean...human) has some potential too. If there is a theocratic society (city or nation ruled by a religious organization), Paladin/Rangers could become the upper branches of the law enforcement (track down criminals and pass holy judgement upon them). This could also open the possibility of using the Justiciar prestige class (CW. I love Justiciar, but it is so often overlooked since he doesn't kill things). I personally dislike the "can't multiclass" restriction for paladins, and as such, if a player can provide a good solid flavor reason for multiclassing into a class or prestige class enabling the paladin to better serve his god/church/organization, I allow it. Of course, if you just want to justify it by RAW, see Complete Adventurer. Specifically, the Devoted Tracker Feat. It allows free multiclassing between Paladin and Ranger, and allows the two sets of level to stack for certain things (like Smite Evil). Technically, he couldn't take this feat until level 3, but you could easily allow him to have the benefit of it at level 2, with the understanding that he will take it as his third level feat.
Tequila_Sunrise 12-09-07, 04:55 PM	Yeah, rangers definately do not make good frontliners. Having him multiclass to make up for a new player mistake just feels cruel. If he really wants to be a front liner I'd say he should just make a new character, or completely retrain his character from level 1. If he likes being a ranger, I suggest that you either write adventures that don't require front liners or give the group an NPC front liner.
KIDS 12-09-07, 05:40 PM	I don't think a Paladin is a big problem provided his personality fits. If he's not...well, Paladin-ish, the concept goes down the drain. But if he has that personality (which doesn't mean a fanatic or a zealot or whatever!), it's easy to explain - he is chosen by a divine power or holy spirit which will aid him in his struggle. However, it would be a great pity to lose 2nd ranger level. That's a very good level and at that level, you aren't going to see any significant advantage in frontlining between any of the said classes. Taking Paladin at 3rd and grabbing Devoted Tracker right there should work just fine though.
Ebonarc 12-09-07, 06:08 PM	If you're dead-set on multi-classing the Ranger into a Paladin, have the god the Ranger follows (or another one whom the Ranger respects) contact him in a dream, give him 'The Call'. However, he has to prove himself pure of heart, righteous, all that jazz... good set up for a quest to earn the right to call himself a Paladin. Once the quest is finished, bam, on the next level up, the Ranger can select Paladin as his class... but from that point, if he goes back to gaining levels as a Ranger, he can never again advance as a Paladin. Or, just avoid the headache and go Knight. I've very strongly considered having him go on a sidequest in-game to become a paladin. The player himself would be alright with just retconning the backstory, and so am I, to a degree, but I want to find a better way. Any ideas on good quest? Depending on some things like favored enemy choice, I've always thought paladin and ranger had some good.So do I. And considering this ranger's favored enemy is Evil Outsider, we won't have any difficulties. Incidentally, evil outsider was chosen because the character's parents were killed by a demon (working for the Red Knives, but that's another story). I personally dislike the "can't multiclass" restriction for paladins, and as such, if a player can provide a good solid flavor reason for multiclassing into a class or prestige class enabling the paladin to better serve his god/church/organization, I allow it.You and me both.:D Of course, if you just want to justify it by RAW, see Complete Adventurer. Specifically, the Devoted Tracker Feat. It allows free multiclassing between Paladin and Ranger, and allows the two sets of level to stack for certain things (like Smite Evil).That's a good feat, and I'd have him look at it, but for one thing: we were already planning on using alternative class features to eliminate the animal companion and special mount. Though I might consider having it affect the alternate class features instead, if I can figure out a way. If he really wants to be a front liner I'd say he should just make a new character He and I both want to avoid that at all costs-this is a very character driven campaign, and losing or replacing a character would destroy it story-wise. or completely retrain his character from level 1.We thought about that, but we both like the flavor of the ranger/paladin multiclass, and the ranger training is a thorough part of the character's backstory.If he likes being a ranger, I suggest that you either write adventures that don't require front liners or give the group an NPC front liner.He was originally equally divided between ranger and paladin. He chose ranger because we were expecting a third player to bring in a rogue whose personality (based on the player, who is Chaotic Stupid to a degree) would have clashed with the paladin way too much. I don't think a Paladin is a big problem provided his personality fits. If he's not...well, Paladin-ish, the concept goes down the drain. But if he has that personality (which doesn't mean a fanatic or a zealot or whatever!), it's easy to explain - he is chosen by a divine power or holy spirit which will aid him in his struggle. We've definitely got no problems here. The character could very easily be a paladin (he was already NG and a demonhunter anyway). The trouble is, how should we go about it? However, it would be a great pity to lose 2nd ranger level. That's a very good level and at that level, you aren't going to see any significant advantage in frontlining between any of the said classes.I agree that it's a good level, but neither bonus feat does much good for him, since he mainly used his greatsword. Taking Paladin at 3rd and grabbing Devoted Tracker right there should work just fine though.That's one possibility.
Salla 12-09-07, 06:14 PM	He could keep the Greatsword and get armor spikes, and TWF using them. I'd recommend Fighter as the multiclass at that point, though.