Alternate XP determining system [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alternate XP determining system [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Arckon
10-13-04, 10:26 AM OK, I think this way of awarding XP is faster and better than the process described in the DMG pg 37. Why it is faster, see below, and why it is better, IMO, is that pg 37 does not really penalize a party that has high level characters in it. Say a party of 8th lvl characters has a 13th lvl cleric (why does it seem like it is always the cleric?) defeats a CL 10 creature. The cleric really carried the party, but the 8th lvl chars still get XP that is adjusted only by the numbers in the party and not for the fact that a 13th lvl char is in it. This method does.

So I do the following steps.

*1. Determine the average level of party members. - edit: this step is now going to be removed.

2. Determine the effective CR of each encounter, using chart 3-1 pg 49, going backwards to what is described. In other words, take each group of CR monsters, find the column heading number for them, go down to the number of them in the encounter, and read left to the left edge to see the effective CR for that encounter. IF the encounter had a mix of CRs then average the two resulting CRs.

3. For each encounter, adjust the CR down 1 CR for every 2 members over 4 in the party. So a party of 7 would have a CR 9 encounter adjust down to a CR of 8, but up to a 10 if there are only 1 or 2 players in the party.

4. Going from player to player, for each encounter, consult the table2-6 on pg 38 of the DMG and cross index the character level with the CR to get the XP award for the character's encounter.

5. Add up the XP for each encounter and then divide by the number of party members. That is how much XP they get for the night.

This goes a lot faster, and is fair enough given the XP proggression in 3.5, IMO anyway.

So am I screwing my players out of XP? I dont think so because I have more time left for them to play instead of twiddling their thumbes while I crunch numbers at 1:30 am.
Arckon
10-13-04, 04:54 PM a shameless *bump*

:D
GeeBee
10-13-04, 07:00 PM Sounds like you enjoyed the original 3.0 rules :)

I personally like the 3.5 rules, because the high level characters get quite a small amount of XP. In my mind, a 5th level character would still get a lot of benefit from fighting a troll, even if the 10th level cleric wouldn't hardly get any.

As for speed, maybe try this (no matter what method you use): my wife made an excel spreadsheet with a chart that I can fill in during the game. I can do the 3.5 calculations in about 5 minutes at the end of the night, usually by the tim everyone gets back from the bathroom. Maybe something like this will help with the time?
astute1
10-13-04, 11:00 PM So, basically, your new system penalizes low level characters for taking a high level guy in their group? That really doesn't make sense. It also means that mixed level parties will never even out. The high level guy will always stay a few levels ahead of everyone else. If I played an 8th level character, just to have the 13th level guy beat down every fight and I never had the possibility to level up to his level, I'd probably quit the campaign. Also, I've noticed that DMs who like to "keep the separation" are often the same DMs who like to use higher level DMPCs - I'm not saying you do, Arckon, but it's a red flag.
Arckon
10-14-04, 01:05 PM Some good points made here.

I think I will stop taking the average level for party members and do the remaining steps. That would allow for lower level PCs to catch up and eventually narrow the gap with higher level characters.

The others do tend to catch up though in other ways. If a player does not show up to play, but allows his character to be used by the party, his character gets half XP. If a player plays his character well, IMO, I award up to 1,000 XP for good play. In addition, it is easier to level the lower levels anyway, so a difference of 5th and 8th lvl characters is about 18k XP, and by 19th level that is less than a full level's difference.

I am going to edit the original post to reflect this new process.

Thanks, astute!
Winter's requiem
11-13-04, 10:18 AM I agree, if, for example three players fight a creature, two of them fall to one hp in the first round. They fall to the ground,(on my games when the pcs are really damaged they fall to the ground) and the third pc fight the creature alone. If that happens the dm must give the third pc the exp.

What I mean: The dm shouldn't give the players exp directly according to the book.(they are only guidelines) The dm should give the pcs epx according to the challenge they got.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arckon 10-13-04, 10:26 AM	OK, I think this way of awarding XP is faster and better than the process described in the DMG pg 37. Why it is faster, see below, and why it is better, IMO, is that pg 37 does not really penalize a party that has high level characters in it. Say a party of 8th lvl characters has a 13th lvl cleric (why does it seem like it is always the cleric?) defeats a CL 10 creature. The cleric really carried the party, but the 8th lvl chars still get XP that is adjusted only by the numbers in the party and not for the fact that a 13th lvl char is in it. This method does. So I do the following steps. *1. Determine the average level of party members. - edit: this step is now going to be removed. 2. Determine the effective CR of each encounter, using chart 3-1 pg 49, going backwards to what is described. In other words, take each group of CR monsters, find the column heading number for them, go down to the number of them in the encounter, and read left to the left edge to see the effective CR for that encounter. IF the encounter had a mix of CRs then average the two resulting CRs. 3. For each encounter, adjust the CR down 1 CR for every 2 members over 4 in the party. So a party of 7 would have a CR 9 encounter adjust down to a CR of 8, but up to a 10 if there are only 1 or 2 players in the party. 4. Going from player to player, for each encounter, consult the table2-6 on pg 38 of the DMG and cross index the character level with the CR to get the XP award for the character's encounter. 5. Add up the XP for each encounter and then divide by the number of party members. That is how much XP they get for the night. This goes a lot faster, and is fair enough given the XP proggression in 3.5, IMO anyway. So am I screwing my players out of XP? I dont think so because I have more time left for them to play instead of twiddling their thumbes while I crunch numbers at 1:30 am.
Arckon 10-13-04, 04:54 PM	a shameless bump :D
GeeBee 10-13-04, 07:00 PM	Sounds like you enjoyed the original 3.0 rules :) I personally like the 3.5 rules, because the high level characters get quite a small amount of XP. In my mind, a 5th level character would still get a lot of benefit from fighting a troll, even if the 10th level cleric wouldn't hardly get any. As for speed, maybe try this (no matter what method you use): my wife made an excel spreadsheet with a chart that I can fill in during the game. I can do the 3.5 calculations in about 5 minutes at the end of the night, usually by the tim everyone gets back from the bathroom. Maybe something like this will help with the time?
astute1 10-13-04, 11:00 PM	So, basically, your new system penalizes low level characters for taking a high level guy in their group? That really doesn't make sense. It also means that mixed level parties will never even out. The high level guy will always stay a few levels ahead of everyone else. If I played an 8th level character, just to have the 13th level guy beat down every fight and I never had the possibility to level up to his level, I'd probably quit the campaign. Also, I've noticed that DMs who like to "keep the separation" are often the same DMs who like to use higher level DMPCs - I'm not saying you do, Arckon, but it's a red flag.
Arckon 10-14-04, 01:05 PM	Some good points made here. I think I will stop taking the average level for party members and do the remaining steps. That would allow for lower level PCs to catch up and eventually narrow the gap with higher level characters. The others do tend to catch up though in other ways. If a player does not show up to play, but allows his character to be used by the party, his character gets half XP. If a player plays his character well, IMO, I award up to 1,000 XP for good play. In addition, it is easier to level the lower levels anyway, so a difference of 5th and 8th lvl characters is about 18k XP, and by 19th level that is less than a full level's difference. I am going to edit the original post to reflect this new process. Thanks, astute!
Winter's requiem 11-13-04, 10:18 AM	I agree, if, for example three players fight a creature, two of them fall to one hp in the first round. They fall to the ground,(on my games when the pcs are really damaged they fall to the ground) and the third pc fight the creature alone. If that happens the dm must give the third pc the exp. What I mean: The dm shouldn't give the players exp directly according to the book.(they are only guidelines) The dm should give the pcs epx according to the challenge they got.