Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The_Levitator 04-15-06, 02:18 AM	Hi everyone. I'm wondering if anyone has ever seen somewhere or devised on their own a customized EXP Reward System? I have a couple of players in my group that are NOT combat oriented. One plays a Rogue who has the master thief thing going on. I could probably keep him thrilled with a campaign as a solo jewel thief or safe cracker. He doesn't get a lot of enjoyment out of being the groups minesniffer all the time. One of my other players loves Bards, and plays hers strictly as an entertainer/storyteller type. Neither one of them is really that interested in the combat portions of D&D. Now I know that D&D originally seems to have been designed with the whole Hack 'n' Slash mindset, but it appears to really have evolved into something much more well-rounded. I had this idea to drop the number of EXP's for killing creatures, and balancing it with a set system for using skills, feats, special abilities and such. I am trying to come up with a somewhat variable system, so that the more successful a character performs a skill for example, the more experience they would receive. I have been variating combat awards by comparing the total HP damage suffered by the party to the total HP of the creature(s) killed. By lowering the EXP's for killing creatures, I was also hoping to give myself some more room for rewarding creative/strong roleplaying without unbalancing progression. I would be very interested in hearing how everyone handles EXP in their campaigns. :help:
neobolts 04-15-06, 04:24 AM	-Story goals: How about setting story goals ahead of time. Give the story goals an equivalent CR or straight XP value. The Red Hand of Doom module does this. -Milestones: Do away with XP altogether. Instead use major story events as milestones, and when the characters achieve a major story goal, they get a level. I played in a game (D&D3.5) where this was used, and it was a fast leveling game. (XP was still on the char. sheets b/c some players made magic items/cast spells with XP cost) -Player-rated RP: With a mature, non-competative group...player-rated role-playing is a great way to recognize players without any perception of playing favorites. Have your players anonymously rank themselves and the other players (first thru last, NOT scale of 1 to 10), use the average scores to calculate role-play awards. I used this in one particular group (not d20 gaming system) with great results. Cause-effect rewards: Based on how the players perform, they gain class features accordingly. Skills for skill use, feats for feat use, etc. This would require record-keeping on your part to keep the chracters in line with the actually class progression and with each other. Though about trying a system like this, but never did. so that the more successful a character performs a skill for example, the more experience they would receive That rewards the luck of the dice. Rolling a 1 on an important skill check and also getting less XP as a result is a double whammy.
Mitchell 04-15-06, 05:02 AM	XP is a group thing. Just because one character may never so much as attack doesn't mean that they won't get XP as long as they contribute to the group. XP is awarded for "Overcoming challenges". That is a great deal of flexibility. If you want to, calculate the total XP value of every challenge (trap, monster, puzzle, whatever) in the adventure, and upon achieving the adventure goal, award that amount to the group. It doesn't matter if the party never lifted a sword or threw a spell, they "overcame the challenge" that was assigned to them, which was to go here and get that (or whatever the details were). Some people just give out XP when the mood strikes them. They have alot of stuff figured out in advance, and the group needs to be level X before they go here, level Y before they go there, etc. It smacks of railroading a bit, but it can work, especially with a newer group, since you can make sure that they have a firm grasp of their abilities before you promote them. The overcoming challenges thing is the big deal. If the bard needs to find out some info, it's worth XP if they do. If the rogue needs to crack a safe, then XP await on the inside, along with whatever else they were after. Just remember that no character is an island. it's a team game at it's core, and the team earns XP, not the individual (though there is nothing wrong with some individual awards here and there for RPing and such).
Rollo 04-15-06, 12:58 PM	There is a varient in the DMG about EXP that I think might work out well for your group. Basically you give a set amount of XP each session no matter what happens. The idea being that over time it all averages out anywhat and if you just give a few hundred each session then there is less XP accounting going on. Personally I like this idea and think I am going to use it for my next game. Sorry I can't provide a page reference here but I know that it is in the DMG. Rollo
The_Levitator 04-15-06, 01:49 PM	Thanks for the great insights everyone! This has really helped to get my gears turning! I totally agree with the team concept. I've just had a few instances where players complained when they did "most of the work" and it wasn't reflected in the EXP. That's why I wanted to have some kind of system in mind to differentiate between different activities and give small rewards to those who played a bigger part in that particular challenge. I was kind of thinking of the cause-effect style that Neobolts toched on. One thing that has always kinda bothered me is when a player makes level and dumps skill points into a skill they didn't use the whole time. It's a minor thing, but I was just trying to figure out if there was a way to make the EXP better represent actual experience. One way that has really helped our group feel like the game has a steady progression is that they declare what things they want to increase at next level before they make that level. When a character makes 2nd level, they declare their goals for 3rd level like class, skills, feats, spells, etc. It also helps reduce the metagame style of waiting until the last minute to see what you have at the time of levelling up and then picking the best things to compliment it. I guess I'm not looking to duplicate reality per se, but make my reward system a little deeper and a little more specific. The ideas you have all given me are really helpful and I really appreciate it! :D
Milandros 04-15-06, 05:56 PM	XP is given out, as has been said, for overcoming challenges. For ease of use, monsters have been given their own challenge rating, which makes it easy to balance encounters and award XP. CRs are also given to traps, as they are challenges as well. There is no reason you can't assign challenge ratings to any other sort of problem. A diplomatic challenge can be given its own CR. So can any other sort. This should make assigning XP relatively easy. In addition, remember that it's a team game. Don't award XP from combat encounters only to the combateers or you're pushing the game down the "only way to succeed is to be a combat munchkin". The group should get XP equally with variation going for exceptional play or achieving character goals.
The_Levitator 04-15-06, 07:56 PM	There is no reason you can't assign challenge ratings to any other sort of problem. A diplomatic challenge can be given its own CR. So can any other sort. This should make assigning XP relatively easy. That's a great way to look at it! Thanks a lot for the insight! :D I do try to variate the EXP to reward those who play a little better. I think what I'm looking for is a more objective way to do it like they do with the monsters rather than with the subjective method I use now which is basically to go with my gut. Well, it looks like I have some work to do!
Geoste 04-16-06, 09:15 AM	I do have my own reworked XP system that works with both individual and party XP. However, I assign only half the amount of XP from combat to balance it out. A lot of other XP is based apon spells cast or class abilities used, and a good chunk is roleplaying based. Here is the link (http://www.geoste.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=10) to my house rules with the XP system (PDF). I hope this is something more toward what you are looking for.
Rivelstraz 04-16-06, 09:18 AM	I stopped giving exp for combat long time ago. I give a fixed minium amount at the send of the session. Then I add exp if the game was harder or easier, if there were some special challenge involved, for role-playing, for idea, etc.
terrainmonkey 04-16-06, 09:26 AM	yeah, i tend to give out 1000 per session per person up until level 4, then 2-3000 up until level 8, then 3-4000 up to level 12, then about 5000 per session after that. i also tend to keep things running smooth and quick in my games, and combat sessions generally last only about half an hour or so. my players like a mix of rp and combat as well, so about half of the sessions tend to be haggling, buying things, etc, with a few combats thrown in for spice. this way, everyone levels up the same amount, it's all equal, and i don't have to do the math at the end. like someone said earlier, it all balances out in the end anyway. there is also the fact that everyone is different in how fast they want their campaign to level up. if you want slow LA, give out fewer. i had one dm that would only give out xp at the end of an adventure, and if there were 4 sessions to the end of it, then you didn't get xp until the last one. it works as long as everyone at the table is agreeable. it's hard to find a happy medium with xp. some players want a lot really fast, and others want a slow steady progression. it depends on the play style of the campaign also.
Crystal Monk 04-16-06, 09:55 AM	-Milestones: Do away with XP altogether. Instead use major story events as milestones, and when the characters achieve a major story goal, they get a level. I've done something like this before, and it works very well. in my old campaign, I still kept track of XP and such, but I'd save the leveling until they accomplished a major story event or got to the end of something big. finished your guard duty work, then cleaned the goblins out of that cave? level 2, everyone. dealt with the cursed ettin in that town? level 3, everyone. took out the sorcerer who was going to fulfill that prophecy? level 4, everyone. I think you get the idea. :D but it made things seem like they were event-based, rather than number based. there have been some really, really good ideas for giving XP for non-combat situations in this thread, and I know I'm going to start using them when my new game starts later this year. one thing to keep in mind, though: always, always, always give everyone the same amount of XP. no matter what your justification is, giving some players more than others will make someone feel like they're being left behind, or like someone else is favored, and so forth. it'll only lead to hard feelings, and I've actually seen groups fall apart because of this.
gundarc 04-16-06, 02:47 PM	Ok people i'm going to use some dirty words so hold on to you hats. :eek: Here goes, in 2ed DMG there is an xp chart that would give you an idea about giving xp for certain actions during a game i.e successful use of a thief ability/ Skill. Now the xp awards will be out of wack but it would give you an idea for the sort of thing to reward or look to reward for non combat players. Just an idea from an already published source so be calm and consider them as a guideline or basis for ideas. Hope this helps, be gentle. :embarrass
The_Levitator 04-16-06, 03:44 PM	That's wild! That is kind of what I'm working on now. I really liked Milandros' idea of using CR for skills and actions. I am developing a chart that uses the DC for skills to determine the CR and EXP for success. I'm trying to figure out if there are other things that could work this way. I'm also trying to develop a slightly more organized way of writing my campaigns, so that certain parts of the adventure, when completed would give EXP for completion. You know, like main goal > sub goal > sub goal etc., with varying amounts of EXP relative to its difficulty. Since I have my players declare which classes, skills, feats, spells, etc. 1 level in advance, I think I'll be ok, letting players level up when they get their experience, instead of having to spend a month in town. I try to give the players lots of opportunities for downtime throughout every session. I'd love to get some feedback to see if I'm on the right track or not. PS: gundarc, I didn't see any dirty words in your post. I'm sure many here still have a soft spot for the "old ways". ;)
DMDaddy 04-16-06, 04:03 PM	I assign CR ratings to all encounters with NPCs. Skill checks increase the CR based on the DC vs. character level. DC10s don't count DC15-20 +1 to +2 depending on the situation DC25+ +3 or more If they earn circumstance bonuses +1 to +2 HD or level of NPC = CR 1/2 of level. This also is dependent on the level of the PCs.