Alternative Favored classes? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alternative Favored classes? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lyndis
02-09-08, 01:25 AM Just like how there is the Weapon Groups alternative system for proficiencies, would itmake sense to have classes that are similar grouped together for favored classes?

For example, it is strange a stretch to say that a Changeling's favored class is just Rogue. If you pick Beguiler or Bard it doesn't work. No, it *has* to be Rogue. Why? Thematically, both Beguiler and Bard would fit the Changeling very well, so a Changeling might get 2 of them or all 3 as favored classes.

An Aasimar might get both Cleric and Paladin as favored classes, while a Tiefling would get Rogue and Wizard. A Catfolk might get both Ranger and Scout. What do you think?
pigknight
02-09-08, 01:40 AM Elf: Duskblade, Ranger, Wizard.
Halfling: Rogue, Spellthief, Beguiler.
Gnome: Bard, Wizard, Beguiler.
Dwarf: Fighter, Paladin of Honor, Knight.
Half-Orc: Bararian, Fighter, Dragon Shaman.

Well that's my list when I don't DM a gesalt campain. At creation the player picks 1 class fromm the list.
Tequila_Sunrise
02-09-08, 02:21 AM A simple solution is: "Pick any favored class, regardless of race."
Or, even simpler: "No multiclassing penalties."
Kouk
02-09-08, 02:44 AM Preferred classes are always the core classes (unless one slipped by me). I'd say you can allow a character to choose one thematically similar racially preferred class from non-core, but I wouldn't give multiple to a single character if it isn't human.

A lot of games don't use favored classes at all though, so it may be just as well.
I_roll_ones
02-09-08, 02:58 AM The way I've thought about how to do it is:
Skillmonkey(Bard, Ranger, Rogue, etc.)
Cha-based casting(Warlock, Dread Necromancer, Sorcerer)
Nature-y(Druid, Ranger)
Warrior(Fighter, Barbarian, Warblade, Swordsage, Ranger)
Int-based caster (Beguiler, Wizard)
Religious(Cleric, Paladin, Crusader)

The only issue are classes that encompass more then one aspect...Which is a lot of them. Is swordsage a skill monkey(Honestly, I'll say it's just a meleer)? Isn't Beguiler a skilll monkey? Ranger is on there three times? What's the difference between a religious class and a nature class? Unless classes can count twice, you get into issues. However, since certain classes are mixtures, I'd have to say yes.

Or...An alternative system is to assume that not all settlements of a race train their youngin's the same way. Got high INT? Great, the army decides that they would REALLY like for you to be in their warmage corps. Raised by a church? The temple that raised you decides to train you, to further their goals and to groom you as a symbol of the faith.

Not to mention, there are settlements with more then one race. Halfling abandoned in a human city? As a child, the halfling resorted to stealing, and fell in with a thieve's guild as everyone already assumed that the orphan was a thief. Human in an elven city? Intrigued by your hardiness and ability to learn quickly, (And perhaps wanting you to be able to move silently through their home and not trample it every time you move in the woods) you are trained to become a ranger.

I don't know the reason for it, but it seems weird that someone who grew up in say, a temple doesn't learn how to be a cleric as easily as they would a fighter because the majority of their race does something different. If the player does something strange that NO RP can justify(I'm pretty lack on rules regarding fluff, so I'm not sure if it's possible if I'm the DM) then I'll just tell them. Fluff is like pretty packaging. Don't like it? Toss it, keep what you REALLY want.
kelvinaw273
02-09-08, 10:20 AM This has been suggested many times - and favoured classes are not always core classes. The exception I can think of are the Kalashtar, whose favoured class is psion.

I would suggest allowing each race one favoured class from the core, and maybe one or two from supplements. For examples:

Dwarf: Fighter*, Crusader, Artificer
Elf: Wizard*, Ranger, Duskblade
Gnome: Bard*, Spellthief, Warmage.
Half-orc: Barbarian*, Dragon Shaman, Scout.
Halfling: Rogue, Spellthief, Scout.

Changeling: Rogue*, Beguiler, Ninja
Kalashtar: Psion, Monk*, Ardent.
Shifter: Ranger*, Scout, Spirit Shaman
Warforged: Fighter*, Warblade, Knight.

Aasimar: Paladin*, Favoured Soul, Swordsage.
Tiefling: Rogue*, Ninja, Warlock.
BlueFlames
02-09-08, 03:33 PM The last time I was revising my house rules, I was considering the issue of favored class, albeit for a different reason. I wanted to make it somewhat easier for classes beyond those in the Player's Handbook to be utilized without staring down a nasty experience point penalty. While the simplest solution would have been to eliminate favored classes and multiclassing experience penalties, I didn't want to completely throw open the floodgates either.

My solution to this issue was to let players choose a favored class from a list of two or three classes, based on the character's race. (I made exception for races with really open-ended favored class options, such as 'any' or 'first class chosen'.) The only real problem with this option was the investment of time necessary to trawl through all of my books to find the races that would be available to my players and classes that made sense as favored classes for those races. Fortunately, now that that work is done, I don't have to do it again. At any rate, the houserule reads like this....

Each race has two or three classes (see attached spreadsheet) that may be selected as its favored class. One of these classes must be selected during character creation to be that character’s favored class. If the race has ‘any’ or ‘first class taken’ listed as its favored class, its favored class ability remains as printed.

And the spreadsheet is available (in Excel format) here (http://home.comcast.net/~blueflames/Favored-Classes.xls).

In a round-about way, this also addresses Lyndis' issue by allowing more thematically-correct (for lack of a better phrase) options for each of these races. It's not as open as making broad catagories of classes and giving each race a favored catagory, but it avoids disagreements over how classes fit into broad catagories.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lyndis 02-09-08, 01:25 AM	Just like how there is the Weapon Groups alternative system for proficiencies, would itmake sense to have classes that are similar grouped together for favored classes? For example, it is strange a stretch to say that a Changeling's favored class is just Rogue. If you pick Beguiler or Bard it doesn't work. No, it has to be Rogue. Why? Thematically, both Beguiler and Bard would fit the Changeling very well, so a Changeling might get 2 of them or all 3 as favored classes. An Aasimar might get both Cleric and Paladin as favored classes, while a Tiefling would get Rogue and Wizard. A Catfolk might get both Ranger and Scout. What do you think?
pigknight 02-09-08, 01:40 AM	Elf: Duskblade, Ranger, Wizard. Halfling: Rogue, Spellthief, Beguiler. Gnome: Bard, Wizard, Beguiler. Dwarf: Fighter, Paladin of Honor, Knight. Half-Orc: Bararian, Fighter, Dragon Shaman. Well that's my list when I don't DM a gesalt campain. At creation the player picks 1 class fromm the list.
Tequila_Sunrise 02-09-08, 02:21 AM	A simple solution is: "Pick any favored class, regardless of race." Or, even simpler: "No multiclassing penalties."
Kouk 02-09-08, 02:44 AM	Preferred classes are always the core classes (unless one slipped by me). I'd say you can allow a character to choose one thematically similar racially preferred class from non-core, but I wouldn't give multiple to a single character if it isn't human. A lot of games don't use favored classes at all though, so it may be just as well.
I_roll_ones 02-09-08, 02:58 AM	The way I've thought about how to do it is: Skillmonkey(Bard, Ranger, Rogue, etc.) Cha-based casting(Warlock, Dread Necromancer, Sorcerer) Nature-y(Druid, Ranger) Warrior(Fighter, Barbarian, Warblade, Swordsage, Ranger) Int-based caster (Beguiler, Wizard) Religious(Cleric, Paladin, Crusader) The only issue are classes that encompass more then one aspect...Which is a lot of them. Is swordsage a skill monkey(Honestly, I'll say it's just a meleer)? Isn't Beguiler a skilll monkey? Ranger is on there three times? What's the difference between a religious class and a nature class? Unless classes can count twice, you get into issues. However, since certain classes are mixtures, I'd have to say yes. Or...An alternative system is to assume that not all settlements of a race train their youngin's the same way. Got high INT? Great, the army decides that they would REALLY like for you to be in their warmage corps. Raised by a church? The temple that raised you decides to train you, to further their goals and to groom you as a symbol of the faith. Not to mention, there are settlements with more then one race. Halfling abandoned in a human city? As a child, the halfling resorted to stealing, and fell in with a thieve's guild as everyone already assumed that the orphan was a thief. Human in an elven city? Intrigued by your hardiness and ability to learn quickly, (And perhaps wanting you to be able to move silently through their home and not trample it every time you move in the woods) you are trained to become a ranger. I don't know the reason for it, but it seems weird that someone who grew up in say, a temple doesn't learn how to be a cleric as easily as they would a fighter because the majority of their race does something different. If the player does something strange that NO RP can justify(I'm pretty lack on rules regarding fluff, so I'm not sure if it's possible if I'm the DM) then I'll just tell them. Fluff is like pretty packaging. Don't like it? Toss it, keep what you REALLY want.
kelvinaw273 02-09-08, 10:20 AM	This has been suggested many times - and favoured classes are not always core classes. The exception I can think of are the Kalashtar, whose favoured class is psion. I would suggest allowing each race one favoured class from the core, and maybe one or two from supplements. For examples: Dwarf: Fighter, Crusader, Artificer Elf: Wizard, Ranger, Duskblade Gnome: Bard, Spellthief, Warmage. Half-orc: Barbarian, Dragon Shaman, Scout. Halfling: Rogue, Spellthief, Scout. Changeling: Rogue, Beguiler, Ninja Kalashtar: Psion, Monk, Ardent. Shifter: Ranger, Scout, Spirit Shaman Warforged: Fighter, Warblade, Knight. Aasimar: Paladin, Favoured Soul, Swordsage. Tiefling: Rogue, Ninja, Warlock.
BlueFlames 02-09-08, 03:33 PM	The last time I was revising my house rules, I was considering the issue of favored class, albeit for a different reason. I wanted to make it somewhat easier for classes beyond those in the Player's Handbook to be utilized without staring down a nasty experience point penalty. While the simplest solution would have been to eliminate favored classes and multiclassing experience penalties, I didn't want to completely throw open the floodgates either. My solution to this issue was to let players choose a favored class from a list of two or three classes, based on the character's race. (I made exception for races with really open-ended favored class options, such as 'any' or 'first class chosen'.) The only real problem with this option was the investment of time necessary to trawl through all of my books to find the races that would be available to my players and classes that made sense as favored classes for those races. Fortunately, now that that work is done, I don't have to do it again. At any rate, the houserule reads like this.... Each race has two or three classes (see attached spreadsheet) that may be selected as its favored class. One of these classes must be selected during character creation to be that character’s favored class. If the race has ‘any’ or ‘first class taken’ listed as its favored class, its favored class ability remains as printed. And the spreadsheet is available (in Excel format) here (http://home.comcast.net/~blueflames/Favored-Classes.xls). In a round-about way, this also addresses Lyndis' issue by allowing more thematically-correct (for lack of a better phrase) options for each of these races. It's not as open as making broad catagories of classes and giving each race a favored catagory, but it avoids disagreements over how classes fit into broad catagories.